I love everything here.

The fate mechanic sounds like it'll really give the impression of time and battling with your clan over a period of years to achieve dominance.
The Honor bidding for Cards is great and allows you to really customize your play to the situation at hand.
The Art. (nothing more need be said)
The sheer quantity of cards.
The multiple paths to victory, sure there's one less, but oh well, it allowed for a new Ring mechanic to be added.

Really, everything.
I'm not going to go so far as to say this is a huge improvement, but I think they're definitely on the right path!

6 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

You realize that the game has a set production of Fate, as a result better board position would be mainly due to deck choices and actions taken during the game, on temporary personalities. Better board position seems VERY hard to imaging lasting more then a couple of turns thanks to the fate mechanic. Players for the most part seem to have the same production levels, so your investments matter either earlier or later in the game.

Your acting as if the player that gets ahead stays ahead, which is the opposite of every mechanical change they have implemented. Your advantages need upkeep, you never have an opportunity to "just do nothing" as your opponent will just go around it.

If your currently behind then build up and wait for your opponents advantage to fade. This game will reward investments in the right moments.

Especially with Honor running, which is a mechanic that we really don't know much about. There could be MANY ways to gain honor. Who really knows at this point.

You assume there is time to build up and wait for the advantage to fade.

We don't know how difficult it will be to break provinces yet... but we do know that Matsu Beserkers have 3 military skill, and we assume the strongholds give +2 to PS... that's already a -1 to the defender that they have to account for with defenders, of which you only have 7 fate to spend on characters, less if you want them to stick around more than a turn, even less if you want to play conflict cards... how many bodies can you buy? Weenie decks with those 1 cost Beserkers could pump 4 out a turn (3 beserkers and potentially another weenie)... if they can do that turn over turn... waiting and building up may not be an option but that all depends on if provinces get a strength buff and if you are willing to give up your attacks to defend. Just saying.

4 minutes ago, Reaver027 said:

Problem is they are back to that setup.

" Important Note: Though only one core set is needed to both build decks and play games of Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game, competitive players may wish to purchase additional copies of the core set to gain more copies of individual cards. Some cards will require two core sets to collect a full playset of three cards, while others will require three core sets. "

That is totally SHlT

Just now, KerenRhys said:

What you're saying is true but the fact that Dairu was Hoturi's son isn't really important for this chain of event. You could have him be the son of Shoju and the outcome could be really similar (at least for this, this would probably have more consequences on other parts of the story).

Without belaboring the point, it's important in a kharmic cycle sort of way -- Hoturi killed his own son, which is a big deal in mythological stories. In a certain sense, Hoturi "deserved" this -- it's part of his tragedy. It's just that the storyline's moved on so much from the mythical start that it's not as inherent.

That said, under AEG's backstory, Shoju and Kachiko produced no children that survived birth. Nothing binding FFG to that now, of course.

Just now, Barbacuo said:

That is totally SHlT

You realize that for the "2 core sets for a playset cards", they could only be talking about the neutral cards that would go to multiple decks?

I'm not saying that's the case, but maybe with the lack of information on this, it's a little too soon to go mad...

2 minutes ago, Barbacuo said:

That is totally SHlT

In most of their product lines that's standard... good news, the playset of cards you get from buy 2 is likely the more important cards for making decks function (ie a certain powerful attachment in AGoT2E)... while nearly every important character is a 1-of in the core, so for efficiency sake, you get 3 copies of the core for competitive play and have extra copies for multiple decks of those important support cards.

10 minutes ago, Reaver027 said:

Problem is they are back to that setup.

" Important Note: Though only one core set is needed to both build decks and play games of Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game, competitive players may wish to purchase additional copies of the core set to gain more copies of individual cards. Some cards will require two core sets to collect a full playset of three cards, while others will require three core sets. "

That could just be a few neutral cards though or low level cards they feel are needed to make a single core playable.. The same thing happened in AGOT2. It was really well designed.

10 minutes ago, SirEuain said:

Here's hoping, but bear in mind that one of the events leading to the Mantis elevation is missing. Dairu's death is what pushed Kachiko to avenge herself on the Crane via the False Hoturi, which devastated Crane armies to the point they threw so much gold at the Mantis that Yoritomo could fund his alliance.

Except Hotaru's ill-equipped to make Dairu.

Not saying it won't happen, just that it'll need to be different.

As pointed out to me. They've tossed out AEG's storyline. Dedicated skilled players may be able to reproduce some of the same story elements, but in all reality, we are going to get vastly different stories, based on who wins what tournament. That being said, I think the Mantis can still be a very real thing. Maybe the Minor clans lead by Yoritomo decide to team up and cause problems until they get recognized, tired of being 'oppressed' by the great clans.

I fully expect one of the first 2 major worlds tournament victory reward is to be to choose the new emperor/empress.

13 minutes ago, Reaver027 said:

Problem is they are back to that setup.

" Important Note: Though only one core set is needed to both build decks and play games of Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game, competitive players may wish to purchase additional copies of the core set to gain more copies of individual cards. Some cards will require two core sets to collect a full playset of three cards, while others will require three core sets. "

That's probably just like GOT though - x1 of most faction cards and x2 of some neutrals.

2 minutes ago, Mirith said:

As pointed out to me. They've tossed out AEG's storyline. Dedicated skilled players may be able to reproduce some of the same story elements, but in all reality, we are going to get vastly different stories, based on who wins what tournament. That being said, I think the Mantis can still be a very real thing. Maybe the Minor clans lead by Yoritomo decide to team up and cause problems until they get recognized, tired of being 'oppressed' by the great clans.

I fully expect one of the first 2 major worlds tournament victory reward is to be to choose the new emperor/empress.

I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing a Mantis or Spider clan anytime soon. You may see some neutral characters but the creation of a playable clan is not something I would envision them allowing with a storyline victory. After seeing how they handled AGoT and AGoT2E and their cores... I think this is all we are going to get.

i haven't parsed this entire thread, so maybe this has already been hashed out, but the implications of starting this reboot where they did is kind of blowing my mind. we could end up with the lion clan coup, or the crab clan coup, and then a new dynasty founded by the scorpion or crane. thats BONKERS.

as mechanics go, its a lot to process. i'm thrilled they gave us so much to work with. its a lot for the community to chew on, and with the AMA tomorrow i'm sure we'll get more tidbits. two thumbs up to FFG for really giving the community a solid blast of info.

Just now, Shikaku said:

I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing a Mantis or Spider clan anytime soon. You may see some neutral characters but the creation of a playable clan is not something I would envision them allowing with a storyline victory. After seeing how they handled AGoT and AGoT2E and their cores... I think this is all we are going to get.

My guess is that the next major expansion will include Mantis and Shadowlands. Hopefully with multiplayer rules.

1 minute ago, Shikaku said:

I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing a Mantis or Spider clan anytime soon. You may see some neutral characters but the creation of a playable clan is not something I would envision them allowing with a storyline victory. After seeing how they handled AGoT and AGoT2E and their cores... I think this is all we are going to get.

spider is dead. i say this as a deep spider partisan, but thats over. shadowlands will be very soon, i predict. the preview articles tease it in like four places, so i'm fully confident that'll be the first major expansion, but spider is gone. I'm not even sure we'll get Daigotsu, which is the saddest thing i'll type all day.

Can anyone make sense of how the Honor Dial physically functions? Dice in a sleeve?

Where is the text that says we are limited to one Military and one Political conflict per turn? I see no such limitation mentioned anywhere.

Also, the bidding for cards mechanic doesn't seem as slanted as people imagine. I envision clans versus each other that could give a fig about honor just bidding 5 every turn, and since the difference is zero, no honor moves anywhere. It's honor/dishonor decks that you have to watch what you are doing with the card draw - both are bidding lower to collect more of their opponent's tokens. It'd be especially interesting if you were at 23 honor but could cross through card interactions rather than honor theft: your opponent has a soft cap of bidding 2 unless he wants risk you winning instantly, and because of the cards you have, you can bid something besides a 1.

Anyways, looks neat. Can't wait to try.

(Whooo Kamoko! Wooo Shiba Bob!)

14 minutes ago, Barbacuo said:

That is totally SHlT

Why?

It's spending 120 for a COMPLETE playset.
There was no way you could get a complete Playset at that cost under the old CCG model.
This is WAAAY cheaper overall.

1 minute ago, Kakita Shijin said:

Can anyone make sense of how the Honor Dial physically functions? Dice in a sleeve?

Each player has an honor dial featuring numbers from one to five. The number that you select indicates how honorably you intend to act during the coming round, with a low number equating to a more honorable path and a high number equating to a less honorable path. The number that you select is also the number of cards that you will draw from your conflict deck. After both players have secretly chosen a number, you will each reveal your dial and draw the number of cards that you chose… but if you’re relying on dishonorable tricks from your conflict deck, you’ll pay with your clan's honor. For instance, if you reveal a dial with a five, and your opponent reveals a dial with a one, you must pay him four honor—the difference between the two bids. Then, you would draw five cards (your bid), he would draw one card (his bid), and the draw phase would be complete.

1 minute ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

Where is the text that says we are limited to one Military and one Political conflict per turn? I see no such limitation mentioned anywhere.

Also, the bidding for cards mechanic doesn't seem as slanted as people imagine. I envision clans versus that could give a fig about honor just bidding 5 every turn, and since the difference is zero, no honor moves anywhere. It's honor/dishonor decks that you have to watch what you are doing with the card draw - both are bidding lower to collect more of their opponent's tokens. It'd be especially interesting if you were at 23 honor but could cross through card interactions rather than honor theft: your opponent has a soft cap of bidding 2 unless he wants risk you winning instantly, and because of the cards you have, you can bid something besides a 1.

Anyways, looks neat. Can't wait to try.

(Whooo Kamoko! Wooo Shiba Bob!)

Each player has the option to declare up to two conflicts during the conflict phase. Players alternate declaring conflicts, and each player can initiate one military conflict and one political conflict. You may even choose to pass your first conflict, waiting to see how your opponent acts, and then commit your full strength to your second conflict later.

6 minutes ago, Kakita Shijin said:

Can anyone make sense of how the Honor Dial physically functions? Dice in a sleeve?

Imagine like an X-wing dial, but instead of maneuvers, there's just the numbers 0-25 on it.

...or 1-5 for the dial used in bidding.

2 minutes ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

Where is the text that says we are limited to one Military and one Political conflict per turn? I see no such limitation mentioned anywhere.

Also, the bidding for cards mechanic doesn't seem as slanted as people imagine. I envision clans versus that could give a fig about honor just bidding 5 every turn, and since the difference is zero, no honor moves anywhere. It's honor/dishonor decks that you have to watch what you are doing with the card draw - both are bidding lower to collect more of their opponent's tokens. It'd be especially interesting if you were at 23 honor but could cross through card interactions rather than honor theft: your opponent has a soft cap of bidding 2 unless he wants risk you winning instantly, and because of the cards you have, you can bid something besides a 1.

Anyways, looks neat. Can't wait to try.

(Whooo Kamoko! Wooo Shiba Bob!)

Each player has the option to declare up to two conflicts during the conflict phase. Players alternate declaring conflicts, and each player can initiate one military conflict and one political conflict.

1 minute ago, Silverfox13 said:

Each player has an honor dial featuring numbers from one to five. The number that you select indicates how honorably you intend to act during the coming round, with a low number equating to a more honorable path and a high number equating to a less honorable path. The number that you select is also the number of cards that you will draw from your conflict deck. After both players have secretly chosen a number, you will each reveal your dial and draw the number of cards that you chose… but if you’re relying on dishonorable tricks from your conflict deck, you’ll pay with your clan's honor. For instance, if you reveal a dial with a five, and your opponent reveals a dial with a one, you must pay him four honor—the difference between the two bids. Then, you would draw five cards (your bid), he would draw one card (his bid), and the draw phase would be complete.

He's talking about how the dial actually works, because it isn't like any of the dials they've done before. I wonder if it is an actual plastic manufactured piece.

8 minutes ago, Mirith said:

As pointed out to me. They've tossed out AEG's storyline. Dedicated skilled players may be able to reproduce some of the same story elements, but in all reality, we are going to get vastly different stories, based on who wins what tournament. That being said, I think the Mantis can still be a very real thing. Maybe the Minor clans lead by Yoritomo decide to team up and cause problems until they get recognized, tired of being 'oppressed' by the great clans.

I fully expect one of the first 2 major worlds tournament victory reward is to be to choose the new emperor/empress.

They had a couple years for that, with the Emerald Championship and Sword of the Hantei tournaments first.

Noticing the changes isn't a complaint, at least from me. It's just underlining how divergent it's going to go.

3 minutes ago, Silverfox13 said:

My guess is that the next major expansion will include Mantis and Shadowlands. Hopefully with multiplayer rules.

I think they're floating the idea internally, but want to see how things progress. Spider can't exist as-is just yet in this story, but Yoritomo's Alliance could have easily fit into the story right around this point with only a few tweaks.

5 minutes ago, Kakita Shijin said:

Can anyone make sense of how the Honor Dial physically functions? Dice in a sleeve?

Image of one here: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/legend-of-the-five-rings-the-card-game/

Looks cardboard like their other dials from SWLCG and LOTR, rotates on the center punch.

1 minute ago, Sithborg said:

He's talking about how the dial actually works, because it isn't like any of the dials they've done before. I wonder if it is an actual plastic manufactured piece.

I see, it says dial, so I would assume it rotates.

Probably 2 pieces of cardboard with some form of connector in the middle, like any other board game dial. You could also use a D6 as well and hide it with your hand, or a cup. There are a lot of options here. Its also possible they will make a fancy one as part of the store tourney rewards. Huzzah, aftermarket tokens!

That being said, this looks pretty limited on tokens so far. Fate and honor, and honor doesn't really need to be a token, just a piece of paper.