1 minute ago, oDESGOSTO said:

Wrong!
If you followed the thread I've opened on BGG you would see pretty much the opposite.

L5R was my last bet on FFG to present me a good game after the Conquest flop. The design team they (FFG) choose for this made me cringe when they presented it on GAMA. From then on I was with a mixed-feeling of excitment and distrust. Today distrust won. You can think all that you want, it's your opinion anyway.

What was the Conquest flop?

On 4/19/2017 at 0:17 PM, Reaver027 said:

Correct i don't buy into games when i disagree with the business model behind it. Even if i am interested in it. I don't want to spend money on stuff i can pretty much just throw away after buying it. Netrunner is one of the biggest offenders. Where you had to buy a third core set just for a handfull of cards.

FFG is willing to change their business model. Runewars is the perfect example. With the exception of the core set (and that is just for 2 out of the 4 races) you can completly focus on just one army instead of having to buy everything like you have to do in X-Wing. If they can change that i am sure they can change their LCG model as well. And until that happens i will have to skip every single one of them.

Because the CCG model was soooo awesome. Buying entire boxes of booster packs in the possibly futile hopes of getting certain cards was soooo good.

</sarcasm>

You lack perspective.

3 minutes ago, Gaffa said:

Military in L5R Flavor 1 denied their opponent continuing resources. As you destroyed provinces, they got less Dynasty draws, which decreased their options while the military deck could still hire a full four provinces worth of dudes and stuff. That right there is a snowball that starts small and keeps rolling bigger and bigger downhill, and has always been a problem with L5R's design.

I was talking about AGoT... he said snowball effect in AGoT

18 minutes ago, Shikaku said:

That has nothing to do with my question. If my opponent is in a better board position, and I need to draw cards to turn the table, why would they bid anything but 1? Will the amount of honor I give up to try and turn the table be worth what I can pick up by draw a few cards? Figure, if I win the ring of air conflict, I get 2 honor... I would also have to win the ring of fire to honor a guy so I get honor for him leaving play... that's 3 gained vs... what? Giving up 2 by bidding 3 to his 1 just to draw 3 cards? So net gain 1... and I have to get to 25. There better be more ways to gain honor, and I am sure there are, but ****...

Characters come from the Dynasty deck. They are not drawn but appear in the provinces each turn. Sacrificing draw will not hamper one's ability to improve board position.

4 minutes ago, Shikaku said:

No my assumption was that because my opponent has board position and doesn't need to draw cards, he can afford not to... keeping his bid low. I have to bid higher because I am in an inferior board position and if I do nothing, that position will continue to degrade. If I have no cards in hand, I have to bid higher to draw into something in this situation, if I have many cards in hand but none will help and I have cards that will do so, I have to bid higher to get to them... seems like it is counter productive to an honor running deck... which makes it even more of an issue when the victory condition you are going after is not honor... say province breaking... you absolutely need cards to turn the table given this scenario and if you aren't gaining honor... there comes a point at which you can't bid high at all because you are too close to dropping to 0 honor... what do you do then?

Your missing an important aspect here.

The resources that buy personalities and actions are the same and are limited. Also purchasing personalities is done BEFORE combat. So if you draw the 5 cards your still not guaranteed to being able to use all five. It opens options, but isn't always a clear win strategy based on what we are seeing.

ON top of that, some clans have strategies that rely on being a higher or lower honor then the opponent. drawing 1 and gaining large amounts of honor can actually deny you some cards you need.

Lastly, we don't know anywhere close to how Honor will actually run. Only that it will be a thing.

1 minute ago, Shikaku said:

I was talking about AGoT... he said snowball effect in AGoT

Ah, my bad. Thank you for the correction.

It's somewhat the same in Thrones -- once both players are in top-deck mode, a strong military deck can keep their opponent off of any personalities to answer their threats, and a strong intrigue deck can do the same thing although through your hand size. I'd say it's not nearly as bad in Thrones as in old L5R -- the plot deck means you'll be getting what you need (most likely) to pay for whatever cards you draw, but it definitely is something that can hold you back in the game.

7 minutes ago, the eigensheep said:

Do you play any card games at all ? I can't think of one that would have a business model you'd approve of. Maybe Ashes?

Not being inflammatory. I'm genuinely curious.

I did play Magic for way too long. I am glad i am out of that. Spend way too much money on it (and i did buy singles and not boxes. buying boxes in a ccg to get the cards you want is financial suicide). So no i don't play any cards game anymore. Unless you count my f2p venture into Pokemon Online.

I am pretty much back to regular boardgames after i sold my X-Wing collection because i just could not keep up anymore. Minor exception would be Dice Masters. But i only buy the Turtles sets there. I can keep it contained to a single universe and i get everything with just one purchase per set.

Ashes would have been great if i had found at least one other person to play it with. That game looked right up my alley.

Just now, Builder2 said:

Characters come from the Dynasty deck. They are not drawn but appear in the provinces each turn. Sacrificing draw will not hamper one's ability to improve board position.

No kidding... After playing cards from their dynasty decks, players begin the draw phase,

So, after I bring characters into play and my opponent has better board position....

5 minutes ago, the eigensheep said:

What was the Conquest flop?

The game itself.
Having a strong IP like WH:40K and being the least played LCG since day 1 means something.

15 minutes ago, Reaver027 said:

Correct i don't buy into games when i disagree with the business model behind it. Even if i am interested in it. I don't want to spend money on stuff i can pretty much just throw away after buying it. Netrunner is one of the biggest offenders. Where you had to buy a third core set just for a handfull of cards.

FFG is willing to change their business model. Runewars is the perfect example. With the exception of the core set (and that is just for 2 out of the 4 races) you can completly focus on just one army instead of having to buy everything like you have to do in X-Wing. If they can change that i am sure they can change their LCG model as well. And until that happens i will have to skip every single one of them.

...and that's exactly what they've done with LCGs!

As you say, you had to buy 3 cores for Netrunner, with each additional copy providing rapidly diminishing returns and lots of wastage - bad value.

So FFG changed it

With their last 3 LCGs you get the same value out of each additional core set you buy and you have zero wastage, apart from duplicates of neutral staples that you'd want anyway.

1 minute ago, oDESGOSTO said:

The game itself.
Having a strong IP like WH:40K and being the least played LCG since day 1 means something.

Calling WH:40k a strong IP is a bit disingenuous. Despite how loud it is it is actually rather weak.

On 4/19/2017 at 1:32 PM, oDESGOSTO said:

The game itself.
Having a strong IP like WH:40K and being the least played LCG since day 1 means something.

Sure, but meaning something isn't specific at all. Maybe the 40K minis/LCG crowd has little crossover. Maybe it only appealed to 40k players since it's an established IP. Maybe players didn't like getting steamrolled when they played more experienced players. Who knows? The game ultimately died due to licensing issues.

The game mechanics were excellent, regardless of its limited success.

10 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

Your missing an important aspect here.

The resources that buy personalities and actions are the same and are limited. Also purchasing personalities is done BEFORE combat. So if you draw the 5 cards your still not guaranteed to being able to use all five. It opens options, but isn't always a clear win strategy based on what we are seeing.

ON top of that, some clans have strategies that rely on being a higher or lower honor then the opponent. drawing 1 and gaining large amounts of honor can actually deny you some cards you need.

Lastly, we don't know anywhere close to how Honor will actually run. Only that it will be a thing.

You kind of made my point for me... if I draw 5 there is no guarantee that my position will change and I gave up 4 honor to do it, putting me further away from my win condition (hit 25 honor).

Again, I am not talking about me (behind on the board) drawing 1... I am saying my opponent who knows they don't need to draw the cards to maintain their position is drawing 1.

We do know that when you hit 25 you win, and when you hit 0 you lose. We know you can gain 2 or take 1 from your opponent and that you gain or lose an undetermined amount from an (dis)honorable character leaving play

We know that Lion and Crane probably start at 12 and 11 respectively. That means they have to pick up 13 and 14 honor along the way at least and you are going to have to bid some honor to pick up cards along the way

37 minutes ago, Shikaku said:

That has nothing to do with my question. If my opponent is in a better board position, and I need to draw cards to turn the table, why would they bid anything but 1? Will the amount of honor I give up to try and turn the table be worth what I can pick up by draw a few cards? Figure, if I win the ring of air conflict, I get 2 honor... I would also have to win the ring of fire to honor a guy so I get honor for him leaving play... that's 3 gained vs... what? Giving up 2 by bidding 3 to his 1 just to draw 3 cards? So net gain 1... and I have to get to 25. There better be more ways to gain honor, and I am sure there are, but ****...

Think about it like this, imagine if you were playing the old L5R ccg, and you had a holding in play that said, "During the Dynasty phase your opponent gains 1 and you lose 1 honor to draw a card." You make a choice, you live with the choice, and sometimes the choice is a risk. Not sure why this seems so daunting to people.

13 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

Your missing an important aspect here.

The resources that buy personalities and actions are the same and are limited. Also purchasing personalities is done BEFORE combat. So if you draw the 5 cards your still not guaranteed to being able to use all five. It opens options, but isn't always a clear win strategy based on what we are seeing.

ON top of that, some clans have strategies that rely on being a higher or lower honor then the opponent. drawing 1 and gaining large amounts of honor can actually deny you some cards you need.

Lastly, we don't know anywhere close to how Honor will actually run. Only that it will be a thing.

Characters can be purchased during combat.

1 hour ago, jonboyjon1990 said:

Another thing on the fate mechanism

it could help the game speed up. When you know characters are only around for a few rounds, you best hurry up and use them!

This prevents clogged board states, turtling up and general slow play and long game length.

My thoughts exactly.

1 minute ago, Silverfox13 said:

Characters can be purchased during combat.

From conflict cards... which you have to spend honor to get...

1 minute ago, Shikaku said:

You kind of made my point for me... if I draw 5 there is no guarantee that my position will change and I gave up 4 honor to do it, putting me further away from my win condition (hit 25 honor).

Again, I am not talking about me (behind on the board) drawing 1... I am saying my opponent who knows they don't need to draw the cards to maintain their position is drawing 1.

We do know that when you hit 25 you win, and when you hit 0 you lose. We know you can gain 2 or take 1 from your opponent and that you gain or lose an undetermined amount from an (dis)honorable character leaving play

We know that Lion and Crane probably start at 12 and 11 respectively. That means they have to pick up 13 and 14 honor along the way at least.

You realize that the game has a set production of Fate, as a result better board position would be mainly due to deck choices and actions taken during the game, on temporary personalities. Better board position seems VERY hard to imaging lasting more then a couple of turns thanks to the fate mechanic. Players for the most part seem to have the same production levels, so your investments matter either earlier or later in the game.

Your acting as if the player that gets ahead stays ahead, which is the opposite of every mechanical change they have implemented. Your advantages need upkeep, you never have an opportunity to "just do nothing" as your opponent will just go around it.

If your currently behind then build up and wait for your opponents advantage to fade. This game will reward investments in the right moments.

Especially with Honor running, which is a mechanic that we really don't know much about. There could be MANY ways to gain honor. Who really knows at this point.

1 minute ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Calling WH:40k a strong IP is a bit disingenuous. Despite how loud it is it is actually rather weak.

40K is a strong IP in the "hobby gaming meta".
Stronger IPs, yeah, sure: Star Wars, LOTR
Lesser IP: Android
Most played LCG: Android: Netrunner

When a game is good, it reflects on the player base. And A:NR is a pretty good game when you look at it's IP vs # of active players.

1 minute ago, Shikaku said:

From conflict cards... which you have to spend honor to get...

This is a fallacy, you are guaranteed one card without any honor expenditure. If you are a skillful player then you may be able to read your opponents strategy and gain more.

Just now, Silverfox13 said:

If you are a skillful player...

This phrase frightens me for how less than skillful players will find this game, if you are correct.

2 hours ago, Yoritomo Kazuto said:

The design looks amazing, I really like this fate system idea very fitting and unique. Keeping the two decks and updating the province system is awesome. I fully understand why the storyline reset was done, as the other had become convoluted and cumbersome.

My only real complaint is the disappearance of the Mantis clan. I will still play the game, I just will have to find a new clan for now. It is my sincere hope that the Mantis will rise again.

Here's hoping, but bear in mind that one of the events leading to the Mantis elevation is missing. Dairu's death is what pushed Kachiko to avenge herself on the Crane via the False Hoturi, which devastated Crane armies to the point they threw so much gold at the Mantis that Yoritomo could fund his alliance.

Except Hotaru's ill-equipped to make Dairu.

Not saying it won't happen, just that it'll need to be different.

18 minutes ago, jonboyjon1990 said:

...and that's exactly what they've done with LCGs!

As you say, you had to buy 3 cores for Netrunner, with each additional copy providing rapidly diminishing returns and lots of wastage - bad value.

So FFG changed it

With their last 3 LCGs you get the same value out of each additional core set you buy and you have zero wastage, apart from duplicates of neutral staples that you'd want anyway.

Problem is they are back to that setup.

" Important Note: Though only one core set is needed to both build decks and play games of Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game, competitive players may wish to purchase additional copies of the core set to gain more copies of individual cards. Some cards will require two core sets to collect a full playset of three cards, while others will require three core sets. "

2 minutes ago, Shikaku said:

This phrase frightens me for how less than skillful players will find this game, if you are correct.

I think it's fair to worry about the learning curve a mechanic like this. In comparison though, when you play a game like Cards Against Humanity, you are trying to read a person to gain points. I don't see this being to complex. Eventually people will be able to read situations.

1 minute ago, SirEuain said:

Here's hoping, but bear in mind that one of the events leading to the Mantis elevation is missing. Dairu's death is what pushed Kachiko to avenge herself on the Crane via the False Hoturi, which devastated Crane armies to the point they threw so much gold at the Mantis that Yoritomo could fund his alliance.

Except Hotaru's ill-equipped to make Dairu.

Not saying it won't happen, just that it'll need to be different.

What you're saying is true but the fact that Dairu was Hoturi's son isn't really important for this chain of event. You could have him be the son of Shoju and the outcome could be really similar (at least for this, this would probably have more consequences on other parts of the story).