Hey guys,

I've been having a lot of fun with a Vader list, but am running into some efficiency problems, and was hoping you could help.

Hide and Seek:

Colonel Jendon: Weapons Engineer, Antipursuit Lasers

Darth Vader: TIE x/1, Advanced Targeting Computer, Marksmanship, Stealth Device

Soontir Fel: PTL, Stealth Device

I love getting target locks and passing them out--it keeps Vader's actions clear, and can really help Soontir out. The trouble is the shuttle. I get out of position fast and Jendon never gets more than a couple shots in per game. Any advice on getting more efficiency out of the shuttle?

First off, lose Marksmanship on vader, you are already getting a crit with ATC, and most times, that is all that goes through when Vaders 2dice + crit attack. Trying to push two crits through on shieldless defenders is greedy and not efficient. Marksmanship is a trap and most lists cannot make it work. Best to just stay away from it.

Predator (to reroll blanks) + focus will up your damage output considerably.

---------------

Predator + Focus

84.38% to roll 2 hits + crit.

Expected Crits = 1.3

Marksmanship

56.25% to roll 2 hits + crit

Expected crits = 1.69

---------------

So you are giving up almost 30% chance to do an extra damage for a small increase in chance to have another crit that will most likely be the one that gets evaded anyhow.

The shuttle has the worse dial in the game. And trying to keep up with Vader and Soontir is near impossible and will hurt the aces who need space to maneuver and dont like being tethered. Maybe just do the TITLE on the shuttle, so Jendon can TL first turn and hand it to Vader. Then get some support crew to help them vs their enemies like Stresshog and such.

Darth Vader (29)
Predator (3)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

Soontir Fel (27)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)

Colonel Jendon (26)
Collision Detector (0)
Inspiring Recruit (1)
ST-321 (3)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I would try going with the Upsilon if you have it. Stridan has range 1-3 ability, and systems officer is sweet.

Major Stridan (32)
Collision Detector (0)
Systems Officer (2)

Darth Vader (29)
Adaptability (0)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

Soontir Fel (27)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Thanks,

Yeah, Marksmanship is a bad idea. What would you think of a "fat" Vader?

Darth Vader: TIE/x1, ATC, Stealth Device, Expose

The dangers of Expose are offset by Stealth, and you still have an action to focus with, making your attack pretty hard hitting.

If I go with that, I can still put the title on the shuttle with a Tactical Jammer and Collision Detector. I know it doesn't make the shuttle anymore maneuverable, but I might get more defense dice for Sootir and Vader.

8 hours ago, BanthaFather said:

Thanks,

Yeah, Marksmanship is a bad idea. What would you think of a "fat" Vader?

Darth Vader: TIE/x1, ATC, Stealth Device, Expose

The dangers of Expose are offset by Stealth, and you still have an action to focus with, making your attack pretty hard hitting.

If I go with that, I can still put the title on the shuttle with a Tactical Jammer and Collision Detector. I know it doesn't make the shuttle anymore maneuverable, but I might get more defense dice for Sootir and Vader.

Expose is THE worse upgrade in the game. Have you flown Vader yet? He usually always needs to boost and/or barrel roll, which is why Predator or Lone Wolf are the main EPTs people use other than adaptability/veteran instincts.

84.38% for predator + focus to get 2 hits + crit. Plus you get a boost or barrel roll in there as well.

92.8% with Expose + focus for 2/3 hits + crit. No repositioning, and no Expose action when blocked or stressed.

You are paying 4pts + 3pts for Stealth, which is 7pts for just 8% better offense with zero reposition. And when you barrel roll, not using expose and just taking a focus, you drop back down to 56.25%, where as Predator keeps you at 84.38% (almost 30% more just like above). Predator (or Lone Wolf) is consistent no matter what you do, where as expose is situational and expensive as hell. Not even taken in the fact that stealth device goes away after vader takes damage, and now when you expose he is 2 agility. Vader is tough enough to try and keep alive with 3 agility.

Think of action-less EPTs for vader (Predator, Expertise, Lone Wolf, Outmaneuver), or actions that keep him alive (expert handling to drop TLs since he moves last, Daredevil can be a life saver to get him a needed range 1 shot, or he can 2sharp, focus, then daredevil 1sharp, to practically do a tallon roll. Or when people try and block you, he can bank AWAY from them to avoid the block, then focus + daredevil to get arc, not to mention, its a maneuver, so if he is in a bad spot, he can daredevil and bump into people so they can't shoot him.

Try to go for consistency when building lists. That way, you know how the list will handle in most situations. When you leave life and death to randomness (like 56% to 92% chance for hits) then one game it will be gravy and wreck things, and the next game you will have a hard time killing a Z-95.

1 hour ago, wurms said:

Try to go for consistency when building lists. That way, you know how the list will handle in most situations. When you leave life and death to randomness (like 56% to 92% chance for hits) then one game it will be gravy and wreck things, and the next game you will have a hard time killing a Z-95.

Wow, looks like I have a lot to learn. Thanks for the tips--I'll sort through my upgrades and see what adjustments I can make.

I don't think I have predator, but I'll try out daredevil or expert handling and see how that does.

Thanks again--I really want this Vader/Soontir/Jendon list to work.

It's been a while since I've seen a double ace shuttle build in my area but vader can be incredibly tough to pin down with that double action. Juke isn't a bad choice especially with Vader lower attack stat, outmanoeuvre works too if you can fly well enough.

if you plan on bumping with Jendon (as I guess from Anti Pursuit lasers) you can put Boshek on him and screw with the enemies manoeuvres. And Fire control system on Jendon can dramatically boost his target locking ability.

cool list and best of luck

Okay,

Had some time to rethink the list a bit, and came up with this:

Darth Vader: TIE/X1, ATC, EU, Outmaneuver

Soontir Fel: PTL, Autothrusters

Colonel Jendon: Collision Detector, EU, Tractor Beam

I know, I know... Tractor Beam on Jendon? But it could help reposition ships to take advantage of Vader's Outmaneuver. Lowering agility is a big plus too, because it can help the punches hit really hard.

What do you think?

On 4/22/2017 at 3:55 AM, BanthaFather said:

Okay,

Had some time to rethink the list a bit, and came up with this:

Darth Vader: TIE/X1, ATC, EU, Outmaneuver

Soontir Fel: PTL, Autothrusters

Colonel Jendon: Collision Detector, EU, Tractor Beam

I know, I know... Tractor Beam on Jendon? But it could help reposition ships to take advantage of Vader's Outmaneuver. Lowering agility is a big plus too, because it can help the punches hit really hard.

What do you think?

The problem with that is that Jendon is going to be shooting much after Fel or Vader. On something that's firing at the end of the turn, some thing that gives a penalty in the following turn (like stress or ion) is much better. Think about going for either a flachette cannon or an ion cannon if you've got your heart set on taking a cannon secondary weapon.

1 hour ago, Glyph said:

The problem with that is that Jendon is going to be shooting much after Fel or Vader. On something that's firing at the end of the turn, some thing that gives a penalty in the following turn (like stress or ion) is much better. Think about going for either a flachette cannon or an ion cannon if you've got your heart set on taking a cannon secondary weapon.

You're absolutely right. I'm such an idiot. I'm tired of trying to find a way to run a cool shuttle, so I'm going to try something simpler.

Here's the new list:

Sootir Fel: Royal Guard Tie, Autothrusters, Stealth Device, PTL

Darth Vader: TIE/x1, ATC, Outmaneuver, EU

Omicron Group Pilot: Collision Detector, EU, Agent Kallus

What do you think? Better?