If I return from the other world (i.e. Another Dimension) to Y'ha nthlei with gate marker of different other world that I have been (i.e. Yuggoth), do I get the explored marker or maybe I am sucked through the gate (to the Yuggoth)?

Sigismond said:

Assuming you have a Gate Box, since otherwise you'd return to a gate leading to Another Dimension. If you return to Arkham, you get an Explored marker. If you have the Gate Box and choose to return to the Yuggoth gate, you get the Explored marker.

But what about "returning to Arkham from the other world regardless of other game effects. This is true even there is an open gate here"? How I should understand this rule? I thought that Y'ha nthlei has a big connection between Other Worlds

Sigismond said:

From the board:

Y'ha-nthlei

Inaccessible: Investigators may only enter Y'ha-nthlei from Devil Reef or when returning to Arkham from an Other World, regardless of other game effects. This is true even if there is an open gate here.

Gate Box or not, you were still returning to Arkham. And whenever you "return to Arkham," you get an explored marker. Gate Box merely allows you to return to any open gate, regardless of which Other World you were in.

Since you are still returning to Arkham, the rules on Y'ha-nthlei permit you to return there and receive an Explored token.

The idea of the "Inaccessible" rule is to prevent investigators from entering Y'ha-nthlei by "abnormal" means, such as:

• Boat Charter from Falcon Point (you'd have to go to Devil Reef first, then move to Y'ha-nthlei next turn)
• Silas Marsh's ability (same as above)
• The Patrol Wagon
• Mi-Go Brain Case
• An Encounter or Mythos card that allows you to go to "a street or location of your choice."
• The Astral Travel spell
• Call Friend spell
• Etc.

Ok. Thanks for the explanations. So, the game with Tsathoggua is very very hard without Falcon Point. I thought about the other ways getting to Y'ha nthlei.

Easiest way I can think of to get to Y'ha nthlei under that circumstance would be to explore The Esoteric Order of Dagon (several encounters send you to Devils Reef of Y'ha nthlei) or get yourself arested in Innsmouth (several arested encounters will also dump you there)

Can Nightgaunt move me to the gate opened in Y'ha nthlei (is it not similar case as Astral travel)?

Sigismond said:

Good question. I'd say that if Astral Travel doesn't count, neither should Nightgaunt.

I'm interested to hear opinions on both though.

Another thought: If there are multiple open gates and Y'ha-nthlei is the closest one, does Nightgaunt take you to the next closest, or does it take you nowhere? I think that in similar debates, an "illegal" option is not an option, so you'd go to the next closest.

Thoughts on this too?

I don't believe that Devil Reef or Y'ha-Nthlei would ever be the closest Gate since they are detached from all neighborhoods. I would be more inclined to believe a Nightgaunt would move you to another board entirely rather than hop you over to the sunken area (by virtue that the Sky is "adjacent" to all Streets).

On the other hand, a similar question could be asked: would a Hound of Tindalos or Hunting Horror track an Investigator to either sunken Location from the mainland? If yes, then the Nightgaunt should probably be allowed to use the same rules.

Sigismond said:

Inaccessible: Investigators may only enter Y'ha-nthlei from Devil Reef or when returning to Arkham from an Other World, regardless of other game effects. This is true even if there is an open gate here.

Sounds like one of those "other game effects".

Sounds like it falls under "even if there is an open gate here"

OTOH, if there are cards that send one directly to Y'ha-nthlei, that sounds like another game effect too. And there are....

A Dagon card: "A gate opens suddenly and pulls you into a strange landscape. Move immediately to Y'ha-nthlei and have an encounter there."

So just what is a "game effect"? A general effect vs. a specific effect like the Dagon card above?

TIMING CONFLICTS
If two or more game effects happen simultaneously, the
players choose the order in which they occur. If the
players cannot agree, the first player decides.

I think you're picking apart semantics here. If a card says specifically to move to Y'ha-nthlei specifically, of course Y'ha-nthlei's printed text isn't going to prevent it.

jgt7771 said:

Good point. Those two locations aren't connected to anything else; you'd need to be on Devil's Reef in the first place, but then entry would be allowed!

How are those two locations attached to the rest of the board (for Hound or HH movement)? Probably, I would count them as being attached to Falcon Point.

Tibs said:

That's how I'd play it too. But then, just what is a "game effect"?

jgt7771 said:

They are not connected to anything so I would say Hound and Night Gaunts can't reach them from "the mainland." (and ys, I realize they are dimensional creatures or something and not confined by physical locations)

ColtsFan76 said:

If there are absolutely no other valid targets for a Hound or a Hunting Horror, doesn't it make sense that they should jump the gap? It's not like they need to take a direct route or count spaces.

Also, Brian, I think you were a proponent of the idea that those monsters would always take precedence to investigators on the board they're on before checking other boards. In that case, it would make sense that when those monsters are in Innsmouth, they would consider Devil's Reef and Y'ha-nthlei investigators before those on other boards. But of course such investigators should be "dead last" compared to other Innsmouth investigators. Coming back to the mainland from DR or Y-N is a bit trickier, but still doable.

Tibs said:

I believe that was my stance BEFORE Innsmouth came out. But actually my stance was that distance should be calculated through the depots/stations and if that was closer than a location on the same board, they would travel. FFG overruled me because I believe same board was higher on the resolution order. But with the MS, my memory isn't what it used to be so maybe I have this backwards.

Regardless, I don't think it applies here as they are on their "own board" so to speak. There is no connection so you can't really count up spaces unless you make a statement that they connect back to a location or the bus stop or whatever. I guess if FFG is going with the ruling that same board gets precedence, then if there is no other valid target in Innsmouth, Devil's Reef is considered "closest."

I'd say so too. If the only target in the game is on Devil's Reef or Yha, or if the only target in Innsmouth is at either of those locations, that target is still "closest," even if that distance is uncountable.

I'm going to use this protocol:

• Countable is always shorter than uncountable, except;
• Within the same town is always shorter than to another town.

The protocol has the consequences of checking for valid targets in this order:

1. The monster checks for closest investigator in the same town that fills the requirement (at a location, at an unstable or street, etc). The investigator has to be a "countable" distance away.
2. If the monster is in Innsmouth, and there are no "countable" investigators, but there are investigators across the gap (either to DR and Y-N from the mainland, or vice-versa), the monster will go to them. If there are multiple such targets, the first player decides.
3. If there are no valid investigators in the same town as the monster, it looks to other towns, counting spaces from the train depots.
4. If the monster is not in Innsmouth, "Jumping the gap" is the last possible priority. If a Hound of Tindalos is in Dunwich, and the only valid investigators are in Kingsport or Innsmouth on DR or Y-N, it'll go to the Kingsport investigator.

I always understood the reason for the text on YN being that YN was so close to all the other worlds that instead of leaving the OW through a 'gate' and ending up back where they started they could find a path back to the 'real world' through YN. So any time we left an OW and went to YN, we didn't get an explored marker for any gate that was already there, as we didn't really explore that other gate. But then again I could never justify the mechanics of the gate box with flavor either, so...

EvilAmarant7x said:

It all depends on how you view "closing/sealing gates" or "exploring another world" from a thematic point of view. Is the Investigator spending all his time trying to find the "Red Key" over there so that when he leaves the world through the "Red Door", he can lock it behind him? Or perhaps he's just spending his time running for his life in darkness, just searching for any shred of light to get the hell out? I would think that the possibility exists that someone could find a manual called "How to Close a Gate" that's independent of where that gate goes. Like the Elder Sign, it doesn't matter that it's a Gate to Yuggoth, just that it's a Gate that needs to be sealed. If the Gate Box gives one access to the winding corridors between dimensions, it matters even less where the Gate goes.

I really, strongly believe that the text simply means you can't go to Y'ha-nthlei, ever, unless it's from Devil Reef or coming out of a gate.

The "even when there's a gate on it" probably notes that, while gates ordinarily replace locations, Y'ha-nthlei's special text isn't negated when there's a gate on it.

This is the way I've always played too. I mean, if there is an open gate in YN, I can't use the patrol wagon to go there in just one round. First round pit stop at Devil's reef, second round go there.

Tibs said:

From having read the FAQ, I agree. Unfortunately :'/

I still think it's stupid that you can use Patrol Wagon or Migo Brain Case to leave, but not to enter. Thematically it makes no sense.

The "leave, not enter" rule also applies with the wagon while on the Kingsport Head. But, I guess, you are going downhill...

This is a good area for a house rule. I like to employ the "one vehicle maximum" houserule, wherein if you gain any more than 1 vehicle, you have to leave the other(s) on your space. Other investigators may pick these vehicles up freely (leaving behind any other vehicles they might have). At each upkeep you roll a die for each item, discarding it on a 1.

This rule does not apply to the Patrol Wagon: you can store a vehicle in it!

The Nightgaunt's text says:

"When you fail a Combat Check against a Nightgaunt, you are drawn through the nearest open gate."

I would therefore argue that it is the gate you check for, not the location. Meaning that if - for the sake of argument - the only gate open is on Y'ha-nthlei then you get drawn through it because the Nightgaunt is checking the proximity of the gate, not the location. Note that you don't actually stop at the loction of the gate, you are drawn straight through the gate to the Other World. I would argue that you're not moving to the location, just being drawn straight through the gate on it.

And as for Y'ha-nthlei's proximity to other locations, I'd agree with counting through Falcon Point. So Y'ha-nthlei is 4 locations away from the bus station, for example. etc.

But the gate is in Y'ha-nthlei. It makes sense that to enter the gate there, you have to have gotten to Y'ha-nthlei in the first place. Now it is a question of whether you're comfortable allowing a Nightgaunt to bring you out to Y'ha-nthlei, or whether it's still "inaccessible."

Stenun said:

This is an example of 2 game effects that directly contradict. There's nothing in the game to say that the rules on Y'n overide the rules on a monster token or visa-versa. There is no correct answer this side of the FAQ. That's why the First Player is given ultimate power to decide.

Or can set up your own scheme of authority. Latest rule to be written, for example or negative always overcome positive or what fit's that actual literature better.

Personally I agree with your argument but that's just a bias on my part and nothing to do with the rules.

OTOH, doesn't the gate replace the location except the location refers to the presence of a gate. Round and round we go.