Even if Sabine and Cluster Mines are the only cards keeping aces off the play-mat -- I don't believe it, but arguendo -- aces had a long, long, long run, which bombs have never had. At least consider giving them a little while to shine.

5 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Even if Sabine and Cluster Mines are the only cards keeping aces off the play-mat -- I don't believe it, but arguendo -- aces had a long, long, long run, which bombs have never had. At least consider giving them a little while to shine.

That is fair. I just wish there was a way to have them coexist, rather than having to pick one or the other.

1 minute ago, SabineKey said:

That is fair. I just wish there was a way to have them coexist, rather than having to pick one or the other.

X-Wing 2.0. (*big cheesy grin*) Oh, and after 27 years on this forum, this was my 1000th post.

1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

X-Wing 2.0. (*big cheesy grin*) Oh, and after 27 years on this forum, this was my 1000th post.

Oh, congratulations!

Yeah, a second edition does continue to become a more beguiling option. I don't think we need it yet, but a properly executed 2.0 could solve most of the problems I have with x-Wing.

28 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Even if Sabine and Cluster Mines are the only cards keeping aces off the play-mat -- I don't believe it, but arguendo -- aces had a long, long, long run, which bombs have never had. At least consider giving them a little while to shine.

22 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

That is fair. I just wish there was a way to have them coexist, rather than having to pick one or the other.

1) Game elements like this should, ideally, be less of a hard counter.

2) Design overall game balance better.

Sabine crew suffers from both. She's a hard counter to aces (1), also in part because she's just too good (2). She needs something like " then receive one stress token " added to her text, to at least provide some tactical downside for using her.

14 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Yeah, a second edition does continue to become a more beguiling option. I don't think we need it yet, but a properly executed 2.0 could solve most of the problems I have with x-Wing.

Only if you don't screw it up with the first new expansion after v2.0!

I have been thinking about coming up with a comprehensive set of house rules to correct the many balance problems that exist. I started one such set a few years back, but I didn't finish, and haven't kept it updated. Going all out on a new version could potentially be well received for casual play, except that:

1) I have a much more robust mathematical approach now than I did then, but I would need to overhaul my scripting infrastructure to do it "right", and this takes a non trivial amount of time.

2) Competitive players won't care, so I don't know how much widespread use it would receive.

3) I am somewhat philosophically opposed to doing FFG's job for them.

On the bright side, Fel's Wrath would be playable again for the first time ever.

6 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:

Only if you don't screw it up with the first new expansion after v2.0!

And that's on top of handling the second edition right in the first place.

I think Sabine should have a number of tokens that could be placed on any friendly bomb token. When those bombs are removed do an extra damage.

Sabine can rig certain bombs to blow up real good. It makes no sense for her to retroactively know which bombs to augment. It is Palpatine levels of silly.

45 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:

I have been thinking about coming up with a comprehensive set of house rules to correct the many balance problems that exist.

I just swooned with excitement when I read this. I have your old thread with your house rule ideas bookmarked because I like it so much. I understand the reasons why you hesitate, but I'll state for the record that I'd love to see more from you about this.

That sounds really cool. Like making your own rules to balance the power. Does FFG take recommendations for their FAQ's if they do that's great but, if they don't they should be taking in recommendations like these!

I thought the title said you can't attack a second time at the end of the round? Also even if you can, it's still just a max possible 4 damage with no chance of crits for like....all your squad points.

56 minutes ago, Kingsguard said:

I thought the title said you can't attack a second time at the end of the round? Also even if you can, it's still just a max possible 4 damage with no chance of crits for like....all your squad points.

It's changed a while back when the attack flowchart came out. The 2 TLT shots are a single attack.

It's also a lot nastier than 'max possible 4 damage'. Consider the most popular build: Kanan with FCS, Rey, Finn, Zeb Shuttle, Tactical Jammer and Biggs with M9-G8. You get either 4 TLT shots with 1 die rerolled (m9-g8) or 2 TLT shots and a 5 die primary (add a blank with Finn, reroll with m9-g8) with rear arc. Meanwhile your opponent has to shoot at a 3 Agi Biggs (Tactical Jammer) while getting -1 attack die (Kanan).

5 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

It's changed a while back when the attack flowchart came out. The 2 TLT shots are a single attack.

It's also a lot nastier than 'max possible 4 damage'. Consider the most popular build: Kanan with FCS, Rey, Finn, Zeb Shuttle, Tactical Jammer and Biggs with M9-G8. You get either 4 TLT shots with 1 die rerolled (m9-g8) or 2 TLT shots and a 5 die primary (add a blank with Finn, reroll with m9-g8) with rear arc. Meanwhile your opponent has to shoot at a 3 Agi Biggs (Tactical Jammer) while getting -1 attack die (Kanan).

Interesting.

I don't know man, doesn't sound any worse than palp aces. And not so annoying to oppose as stress hogs.

2 hours ago, Kingsguard said:

Interesting.

I don't know man, doesn't sound any worse than palp aces. And not so annoying to oppose as stress hogs.

It's not worse than Palp aces in their days of glory, but it's pretty annoying to face (in my experience at least, but personally I find all lists with Biggs annoying) as most lusts need to spend 2-3 rounds shooting at Biggs, with the Ghost spewing constant damage at your list.

8 hours ago, MajorJuggler said:

1) Game elements like this should, ideally, be less of a hard counter.

2) Design overall game balance better.

Sabine crew suffers from both. She's a hard counter to aces (1), also in part because she's just too good (2). She needs something like " then receive one stress token " added to her text, to at least provide some tactical downside for using her.

Only if you don't screw it up with the first new expansion after v2.0!

I have been thinking about coming up with a comprehensive set of house rules to correct the many balance problems that exist. I started one such set a few years back, but I didn't finish, and haven't kept it updated. Going all out on a new version could potentially be well received for casual play, except that:

1) I have a much more robust mathematical approach now than I did then, but I would need to overhaul my scripting infrastructure to do it "right", and this takes a non trivial amount of time.

2) Competitive players won't care, so I don't know how much widespread use it would receive.

3) I am somewhat philosophically opposed to doing FFG's job for them.

On the bright side, Fel's Wrath would be playable again for the first time ever.

I would be on board with establishing a solid list of house rules that can spread.

8 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

I think Sabine should have a number of tokens that could be placed on any friendly bomb token. When those bombs are removed do an extra damage.

Sabine can rig certain bombs to blow up real good. It makes no sense for her to retroactively know which bombs to augment. It is Palpatine levels of silly.

That feels like it might be a neat fix for Sabine, except in practice, it'll often just end up working exactly the same way, unless the number of tokens is sharply limited.

The crazy thing about Sabine is that if she was discard on use she'd still see play!

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

That feels like it might be a neat fix for Sabine, except in practice, it'll often just end up working exactly the same way, unless the number of tokens is sharply limited.

I would say 2 seems pretty appropriate for her cost. Most use cases its effectively Crack Shot for bombs. 2 damage for 2 points? Seems pretty generous.

Easier fix would be just:

3 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

The crazy thing about Sabine is that if she was discard on use she'd still see play!

Yup. She'd still probably be worth it for just one use.

The problem with bombs for me is the random nature. Sometimes you one-shot a ship w/clusters, sometimes you line up the perfect bomb lay and then you whiff your dice. Why not make clusters do a single damage per token? That way you can kill a squishy ship (esp. with Sabine) if you play perfectly, but the swinginess isn't there.

23 minutes ago, mkevans80 said:

The problem with bombs for me is the random nature. Sometimes you one-shot a ship w/clusters, sometimes you line up the perfect bomb lay and then you whiff your dice. Why not make clusters do a single damage per token? That way you can kill a squishy ship (esp. with Sabine) if you play perfectly, but the swinginess isn't there.

Because even with the swinginess, bombs with Sabine have been doing a good job at killing squishy ships, thus forcing Aces out. And that's the problem.

Why not both? Nerf Sabine AND make bombs less swingy.

1 minute ago, mkevans80 said:

Why not both? Nerf Sabine AND make bombs less swingy.

All depends on the "how" and the state of Aces afterward.

8 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

The crazy thing about Sabine is that if she was discard on use she'd still see play!

No, she would never see play. She's a Crew slot, man.