5 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

You're forgetting the start of combat boost, which is probably this list's primary gimmick. Fenn Rau at range 1 out of arc of the Ghost can suddenly turn into Fenn Rau at range 2 in arc of the Ghost. Autothrusters won't help you there.

You stop getting the combat phase boost when he pops Ahsoka. And if she has to use her ability to arc dodge him you don't get it that round.

It's still by no means easy though.

Are Ion weapons regarded as helpful against the Ghost TLT?
I (a fairly new player) played my first game against Hera/Ashoka (no navigator) TLT (run by a very new player), and pulled off a complete victory. It was largely due to using an ion missile on the ghost, which sent it onto a rock and allowed 2 of my 3 ships (rebel ace list - Poe, Ten Numb, Airen Craken) to get into range one at the side.
It's a pretty situational thing - the ghost has to be pointing at a rock to get the full effect, of course.

Played against the following list last night. Boy was it "fun." (That's sarcasm, btw)

Chopper - TLT, Reinforced Deflectors, Hera, Ezra, Tactical Jammer
Zeb - Autoblaster
Gold Squadron Pilot - TLT, M9-G8, Vectored Thrusters

This list has all of the power (and all of the toxicity) of Thug Lyfe quad-TLT Y's, but has fewer vulnerabilities. The funny thing about this list is that you never want to take an action with the Ghost... you just want to be stressed. The GSP uses M9-G8 to lock onto the Ghost, giving it a reroll. Ezra turns single focuses into hits up to 4 times in a single round.

Yes, it would be simpler to just take Accuracy Corrector, but my opponent really wanted to use Reinforced Deflectors. RD is a hugely underrated card, and my opponent and I take it all the time It can really cut down on the damage you take vs some matchups. I've seen it work 5 times in a single match. 5 extra shields for less than the price of a shield upgrade is nothing to sneeze at. Also, I'm fairly sure Ezra+M9G8 gives you an even better rate of fire on your TLT's than accuracy corrector. You're getting 2-3 hits with every shot the vast majority of the time.

The GSP hides behind the ghost as long as it can, taking advantage of the Tac Jammer. The Ghost stresses itself out at the first opportunity and flies wherever it wants. If an enemy ship gets within range one, it better be out of Arc or it's going to eat 5 dice from the primary attack (with 1 focus turning into a crit). Any attempts to burst it down will proc Reinforced Deflectors. The only lists I can see giving this one serious problems are low-dice swarms and Thug Lyfe.

The real genius of this list, IMO, is running Chopper in combination with everything. Often the best way to survive an attack from a TLT Ghost, is to range 1, and make that a bump if you're going to end up in arc. Doing that now will stress you and force you to spend an extra turn getting situated again, shedding the stress. My brobot list didn't stand a chance. I flew as well as could be expected, but even AG 3, 8HP, and Autothrusters can't hold up against that kind of firepower for very long. Not when you have to shoot out of an arc while your target can fire 360º in any direction with 3 TLT attacks, two of them guaranteed to do 2.7 hits (or some shnizzle like that) per attack. You simply don't have enough focus tokens.

I found the list even more unpleasant than Quad-TLT's. I don't know if the problem is TLT or the Ghost Title. I'm inclined to think that one of the Ghost's attacks should have to be a non-Turret attack (Primary Weapon or Torpedo). So for example, change the Phantom's title " While you are docked, the Ghost can perform primary weapon attacks from its special firing arc and, at the end of the Combat phase, it may perform an additional attack with an equipped (turret) that has not been used to perform an attack this round."

Or just nerf bloody TLT's already, dadgummit. Or both.

I think the best solution to the Ghost problem that people are experiencing has already been mentioned. The Ghost can make a free attack with a turret upgrade equipped to the Phantom.

Basing your entire list around attacking 4 times a turn with Accuracy Corrector TLT isn't actually that bad. You'll get 4 accuracy corrector shots more often than quad accuracy corrector Tempest Squadrons.

The idea that that list's firepower is concentrated into one fat turret kind of pisses me off.

Yes, the ghost deserves 2 attacks. You have to spend a minimum of 59 points to get a VCX, Zeb Attack Shuttle, Title and TLT. You can do that 11 points cheaper with two Gold Y-Wing TLTs. If you nerf the title, you'll hardly ever see the VCX in tournament play and it's not exactly tearing up competitive play now.

11 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

You stop getting the combat phase boost when he pops Ahsoka. And if she has to use her ability to arc dodge him you don't get it that round.

It's still by no means easy though.

Fenn has to kill her first, which means the Ghost gets at least one round of free boosting (which can be enough to take out Fenn). Also, every version of this list I've played against had Rey crew on Ahsoka. She can still arc dodge and pass actions to Hera.

8 hours ago, Roman109 said:

Yes, the ghost deserves 2 attacks. You have to spend a minimum of 59 points to get a VCX, Zeb Attack Shuttle, Title and TLT. You can do that 11 points cheaper with two Gold Y-Wing TLTs. If you nerf the title, you'll hardly ever see the VCX in tournament play and it's not exactly tearing up competitive play now.

When a 75~ point Ghost has the firepower of 4 TIE Advances and you can afford to blow the remaining 25 on a TIE Fighter that does literally nothing except follow the Ghost around and focus, maybe that's a bit ridiculous.

You can easily kill a Y-Wing and halve the attack power. No FCS or Accuracy Corrector. No large base/large base boost to allow you to run away and never let anything into range one.

So if a list can man-handle 4 Tie Advances it's broken? I seriously would rather have a list builder pick a random list for me than take 4 Advances.

If 1 Y Wing is so easy to kill, I don't think Heaver's list would have won 2 different system opens with hundreds of players. You can reasonably expect 2+ TLT attacks at a tournament so you have to figure out a way to deal with it either through list building, strategy or flying.

I think the crux of this problem is TLT itself and not the ghost.

I agree with Roman, the Ghost title makes the Ghost work considering you are paying a minimum of 55 points for a non PWT ship with 0 agility and no EPT.

Removing the title from the Ghost would remove the Ghost from any form of competitive play and not make the ship worth it to take in my opinion.

I think the problem lies at the feet of TLT itself rather than the Ghost since TLT has been a problem in a lot of peoples eyes for awhile now.

18 minutes ago, Ebak said:

I think the crux of this problem is TLT itself and not the ghost.

I agree with Roman, the Ghost title makes the Ghost work considering you are paying a minimum of 55 points for a non PWT ship with 0 agility and no EPT.

Removing the title from the Ghost would remove the Ghost from any form of competitive play and not make the ship worth it to take in my opinion.

I think the problem lies at the feet of TLT itself rather than the Ghost since TLT has been a problem in a lot of peoples eyes for awhile now.

But that continues to be an opinion based problem with people holding opposing views. In the end, it will come down to tournament data.

8 hours ago, SabineKey said:

But that continues to be an opinion based problem with people holding opposing views. In the end, it will come down to tournament data.

Oh yes indeed. I'm just giving my opinion and in the end FFG are the developers and if the data shows there is a problem, they will respond appropriately.

On 4/21/2017 at 10:36 PM, Turbo Toker said:

That's because of how sub-par it is. You have to jump through hoops and meet a bunch of conditions to do it. If you've been ionized by something, generally your opponent has earned it.

Not just 3 bank and boost every turn with your 74 point fat turret and throw out 4 TLT attacks a turn.

ICTs are not "sub par". Sorry.

I've had games in the past few months against all 3 versions of the double attack ghost. TLT, ion, and auto blaster (with AC).

Ironically the ion was the toughest matchup even though it had the lowest damage output. Being able to ion twice means at least one ship is ioned every round usually, and if you're not a turret that's bad news.

If they would ever change how it works, I would guess maybe just make the turret attack once per round. So you have to use your primary (either front or back) for either the attack round or the end of the attack round. Can't use turret attacks for both.

Couldn't bring myself to start another thread so I'll just bring this recently departed thread back to life:

The TLT was identified as a problem card before it was ever released. It did put an end to Fat Han's reign and that's great and all but the TLT has always delivered more than its six points of value. The TLT is strong against nearly everything. Unless you have four attack dice against a zero agility target, the TLT is going to deliver more consistent damage at range 2-3 than any other attack. That is bananas. (It is especially tough on 2-agility, medium-health targets. You want an X-wing buff? You can start by taking TLT down a peg.)

FFG seems to draw the line at point cost increases. A defender range 3 bonus is changing how secondary weapons work and my not be enough anyway. So here's my hair-brained idea. Change the TLT to roll attack dice equal to the defenders printed agility value with a minimum of 1 attack die. Unfortunately, that does nothing about Accuracy Corrector...

3 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

Couldn't bring myself to start another thread so I'll just bring this recently departed thread back to life:

The TLT was identified as a problem card before it was ever released. It did put an end to Fat Han's reign and that's great and all but the TLT has always delivered more than its six points of value. The TLT is strong against nearly everything. Unless you have four attack dice against a zero agility target, the TLT is going to deliver more consistent damage at range 2-3 than any other attack. That is bananas. (It is especially tough on 2-agility, medium-health targets. You want an X-wing buff? You can start by taking TLT down a peg.)

FFG seems to draw the line at point cost increases. A defender range 3 bonus is changing how secondary weapons work and my not be enough anyway. So here's my hair-brained idea. Change the TLT to roll attack dice equal to the defenders printed agility value with a minimum of 1 attack die. Unfortunately, that does nothing about Accuracy Corrector...

Identified by who?

You are also killing off HWK based TLTs entirely, which seems to be one of the more accepted uses of them.

10 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Identified by who?

You are also killing off HWK based TLTs entirely, which seems to be one of the more accepted uses of them.

Vorpal Sword and MajorJuggler are two I can remember off the top of my head. The TLT is just numbers. It lends itself to mathematical analysis as well as any card in the game. It is worth more than six points.

18 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

Change the TLT to roll attack dice equal to the defenders printed agility value with a minimum of 1 attack die.

Reinforced Epics and the Wookie Spruce Goose are now immune to TLT's. Is that intentional?

21 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

Vorpal Sword and MajorJuggler are two I can remember off the top of my head. The TLT is just numbers. It lends itself to mathematical analysis as well as any card in the game. It is worth more than six points.

Yeah, but about half a point, as I remember it. Not enough to go loco on it. It still doesn't warp the meta as other things have (and still do), and already has built in limitations anyone can take advantage of, with a little skill. If you want the TLT numbers to go down, you have to make the other turret options better.

24 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Reinforced Epics and the Wookie Spruce Goose are now immune to TLT's. Is that intentional?

How are they immune?

8 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

How are they immune?

His rule would have TLT's rolling 1 attack die against targets with 0 or 1 agility. If those targets were reinforced, the TLT would always miss (due to 1 auto Evade result vs 1 attack die).

Just now, kris40k said:

His rule would have TLT's rolling 1 attack die against targets with 0 or 1 defense. If those targets were reinforced, the TLT would always miss (due to 1 auto Evade result vs 1 attack die).

Pardon. Misread your post.

58 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

Couldn't bring myself to start another thread so I'll just bring this recently departed thread back to life:

The TLT was identified as a problem card before it was ever released. It did put an end to Fat Han's reign and that's great and all but the TLT has always delivered more than its six points of value. The TLT is strong against nearly everything. Unless you have four attack dice against a zero agility target, the TLT is going to deliver more consistent damage at range 2-3 than any other attack. That is bananas. (It is especially tough on 2-agility, medium-health targets. You want an X-wing buff? You can start by taking TLT down a peg.)

FFG seems to draw the line at point cost increases. A defender range 3 bonus is changing how secondary weapons work and my not be enough anyway. So here's my hair-brained idea. Change the TLT to roll attack dice equal to the defenders printed agility value with a minimum of 1 attack die. Unfortunately, that does nothing about Accuracy Corrector...

Do... you mean that? It makes TLTs a LOT worse against the kinds of ships they're supposed to suppress, whilst not changing them at all against the ones they tend to be too powerful against.

If anything, the inverse would be better - roll 3 MINUS their agility, minimum 1.

10 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Do... you mean that? It makes TLTs a LOT worse against the kinds of ships they're supposed to suppress, whilst not changing them at all against the ones they tend to be too powerful against.

If anything, the inverse would be better - roll 3 MINUS their agility, minimum 1.

That still just hamstrings TLTs against high agi ships, without providing that much benefit against lower agi ships.

1 hour ago, kris40k said:

Reinforced Epics and the Wookie Spruce Goose are now immune to TLT's. Is that intentional?

Epics yes! How can a little piddly-dink gun doing equal damage to an A-wing and a Corvette? TLT should not damage Huge ships. Auzituck?... I'll call it a feature and not a bug?