Hear me out. I flew Ashoka and Ghost at a recent tourney and I'm seeing TLT on ghost more and more. let me state, the game was truly easy mode, boost and shoot 4 times.

Should the ghost have a rule that says only turrets of 4 pts or less? With all the other nerfs to make the game more about flying, I think this one is needed for sure.

Thanks,

I'd be ok with the turret being nerfed on Ghost if it was a part of the title.

Without the title, it's just an oversized tlt anyway so not a huge deal.

How can you attack four times... isn't it a primary weapon attack then at the end and of the combat phase you can do a turret attack? Could have it wrong...

Personally don't like playing against the Ghost/Phantom combo but it does cost quite bit and isn't always successful.

For the whole Ghost/Phantom combo, limiting the point value of the turret might work out.

The Ghost cost the same as 3 TLT Y-wings. That's 10 hull 6 shields with 0 agility compared to a combined 15 hull and 9 shields with 1 agility each. Yeah, the Y will lose shots quicker than the Ghost, but the are probably on part with each other.

I don't think the TLT ghost is so dominant that a nerf is needed.

It only gets to shoot 3 times. Twice in place of its primary and a third as a result of the title.

32 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:

Hear me out. I flew Ashoka and Ghost at a recent tourney and I'm seeing TLT on ghost more and more. let me state, the game was truly easy mode, boost and shoot 4 times.

Should the ghost have a rule that says only turrets of 4 pts or less? With all the other nerfs to make the game more about flying, I think this one is needed for sure.

Thanks,

It used to only fire 3 times a round and you used to be able to trigger things like Tactician and FCS of off each individual TLT shot.

Kanan Biggs wasn't as powerful, and triple K-Wings each with TLT was a good build and a nice ace counter.

Docking the Phantom now actually nets you 6 points of value. Instead of having a Ghost with TLT, and a 24 point Y-Wing with TLT, now you can just have a ghost with TLT and dock that turret less Y-Wing onto your ship. Either way you get 4 TLT attacks, but one costs 6 points less.

This rule should be reversed, TLT and Cluster Missiles should count as 2 attacks again. There was no reason for that change. Now there are less competitive K-Wing builds, less competitive stress based builds, and more fat turret lists.

Kanan is a >74 point fat turret<. One could argue that it's a one ship build really, Biggs contributes little besides for being 6 extra health for Kanan.

3 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

It only gets to shoot 3 times. Twice in place of its primary and a third as a result of the title.

It gets to shoot all 4 shots of the TLT (2x2).

See page 21 of the FAQ:
If a VCX-100 is equipped with the Ghost title, has a docked Attack Shuttle equipped with the Phantom title, and performs an attack with a Twin Laser Turret at the end of the Combat phase, that ship can perform the second attack with Twin Laser Turret.

Huh, missed that one. Thanks!

As one of the original advocates to the Kanan/Biggs list, I will tell you that it's a strong list, especially in this meta that's rather AT lite. But it has several very hard counters. To start with, Autothruster aces just eat it alive. Not only do they severely cripple it's TLT damage, but if your Kanan doesn't have EU, they will just hug that R1 blind spot the entire game. And if he does have EU, then he's not using his ability for more than 1-2 turns, leaving him shooting with just a TL to your AT+F+E turtling, and he's eating the full damage you throw at him.

But other tanks typically can outtank him as well. Rey comes to mind here - she'll blow through his health like crazy, and since she had plenty of health herself (not to mention her basically 2.5 agility) she'll be able to dodge a lot of his attacks. Bombing Miranda can also be a very difficult matchup (especially without the EU). A well played OldFennaroo or Paratinni will give him fits as well. Actually, Assaj in general has a pretty good matchup considering the point difference.

That being said, very few of those ships (short of the AT PTL aces) will be able to win 1on1 against a full health Ghost... nor should they - it's up to 74 points of attacking, it should beat a 35-50 point ship without much trouble. But if you bring it down to half health before it's a one-on-one situation, these all have a very good chance at winning. That being said, my money is on Rey if they're in a one-on-one.

Hera-gator kind of feels like the second coming of the fat turret lists that dominated the wave V-VI metagame, which isn't ideal, to be sure. However, I did notice that list does have a couple of weaknesses. Other twin laser turrets are a serious problem- Sure, you can take down a TLT Y-wing in two rounds, but that Y-wing almost certainly took away 25% of your health in the process, and if another ship was also firing you at the same time, I think you've lost that trade. Swarms are also scary- Sure, you might be able to kill a z-95 or tie fighter a turn (although that's not a garuntee), but they can take off ~25% of your health in one round.

So maybe the issue isn't the ghost with TLT specifically so much as it is the metagame combined with general-TLT issues.

In my experience, it's anything but overpowered. It is a killer in epic, but even then, once the swarm gets it, it's over. And don't even get started on the Attani Mindlink lists with their crazy Focus token shifting and green dice result producing...

36 minutes ago, Mrk1984 said:

The Ghost cost the same as 3 TLT Y-wings. That's 10 hull 6 shields with 0 agility compared to a combined 15 hull and 9 shields with 1 agility each. Yeah, the Y will lose shots quicker than the Ghost, but the are probably on part with each other.

I don't think the TLT ghost is so dominant that a nerf is needed.

Two things your not counting on is the Accuracy Corrector and a large base, which means you will always do at least 2 damage with every shot. I added Dash rendar crew so I could shoot while on top of Asteriods, the people that played against me hating the game. Most had epic rants about it. Believe me the 4 TLT shots, with such a large base ship are are very easy to set up, plus the the 2 hits always, people just hate it.

I don't see it as a problem list. I agree its not particularly fun, but I don't think its close to dominant.

I'd be okay with making everything except ordnance adhere to the range rules, but that more adresses TLT and turrets in general rather than this list specifically (though I would bet this list would be hit hard).

Here is my list for the tournament: Hopefully, someone will come up with a good plan to fight it, because it was so boring to me and not fun to my opponents, that I will never play it again. Easy mode in any game just sucks.

============== Ahsoka's Ghost ============== 100 points Pilots ------

Hera Syndulla (58) VCX-100 (40), Ghost (0), Accuracy Corrector (3), Twin Laser Turret (6), Navigator (3), Dash Rendar (2), Engine Upgrade (4)

Ahsoka Tano (22) Sabine's TIE Fighter (17), Veteran Instincts (1), Sabine's Masterpiece (1), Captured TIE (1), Black Market Slicer Tools (1), Inspiring Recruit (1)

“Zeb” Orrelios (20) Attack Shuttle (18), Autoblaster Turret (2), Phantom (0)

6 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:

Here is my list for the tournament: Hopefully, someone will come up with a good plan to fight it, because it was so boring to me and not fun to my opponents, that I will never play it again. Easy mode in any game just sucks.

============== Ahsoka's Ghost ============== 100 points Pilots ------

Hera Syndulla (58) VCX-100 (40), Ghost (0), Accuracy Corrector (3), Twin Laser Turret (6), Navigator (3), Dash Rendar (2), Engine Upgrade (4)

Ahsoka Tano (22) Sabine's TIE Fighter (17), Veteran Instincts (1), Sabine's Masterpiece (1), Captured TIE (1), Black Market Slicer Tools (1), Inspiring Recruit (1)

“Zeb” Orrelios (20) Attack Shuttle (18), Autoblaster Turret (2), Phantom (0)

A couple notes: this list isn't even that optimized. Inspiring Recruit over Intel Agent or Cassian Andor? Zeb without Chopper?

A Kylo-Chiraneau combo would do a number on the Ghost and limit its first two attacks, and triple Jumps will also cause Hera to have a lot of problems through creative blocks and lots of health, as well as a turret that she doesn't have the agility to avoid.

Should be the double tap is whatever turret is on the Phantom. Makes sense thematically too.

Zach Bunn beat the pants off me with that list at regionals this year. It was pretty insane, but I think that was just my lack of experience flying against it. It's such a unique list that it's going to win a lot of games against opponents the first time.

What ships are made obsolete by TLT Ghost? What questions does it pose that can't be answered by several other ships?

It may be "easy mode" (maybe not), but why is that a problem for the game?

3 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

What ships are made obsolete by TLT Ghost? What questions does it pose that can't be answered by several other ships?

It may be "easy mode" (maybe not), but why is that a problem for the game?

It's an uphill battle for any ships of two agility or lower, such as Y-Wings, X-Wings (both flavors), TIE/sfs and Strikers. Lightweight Frame is notably useless against the Accuracy Corrector. You are cancelling all dice then adding two hits results, so there are only two hit dice showing by the time defense dice are rolled. Rebel Regen also doesn't do much here, since it's pretty sustained damage against most of the things that would have regen. The ships that would feast on this build (swarms, torp boats) have been largely pushed out of the meta by other top builds and rule changes.

Ghosts are annoying pain in the ass power creep lol. With too many fire zones and things zone control aspects to remember.

Yeah, I gotta change my stance. I do keep forgetting to factor in how much the Ghost can cost to get that trick going, so I think it balances out in the end.

3 hours ago, eagletsi111 said:

Hear me out. I flew Ashoka and Ghost at a recent tourney and I'm seeing TLT on ghost more and more. let me state, the game was truly easy mode, boost and shoot 4 times.

2 hours ago, Khyros said:

As one of the original advocates to the Kanan/Biggs list, I will tell you that it's a strong list, especially in this meta that's rather AT lite. But it has several very hard counters. To start with, Autothruster aces just eat it alive. Not only do they severely cripple it's TLT damage, but if your Kanan doesn't have EU, they will just hug that R1 blind spot the entire game. And if he does have EU, then he's not using his ability for more than 1-2 turns, leaving him shooting with just a TL to your AT+F+E turtling, and he's eating the full damage you throw at him.

But other tanks typically can outtank him as well.

I solo'd Kanan in a Kanan/Biggs list with Vader at a recent tourney. I was trying Gunner/HotCop RAC, no Kylo because Kylo is a massive NPE ****hole. It was the last game, I was tired, flew RAC extremely bad, I mean so bad that he got to shoot once before dying. Asteroids are still my enemies MVP.

Anyways, I stayed in that range one hole the whole time, got the crit that causes all damage to be face up, then it was just a matter of time. I lost the match because it was still 3 ships vs 1, and green die will only help you so much until they laugh in your face.

I understand that he is great against some much ups, but to nerf something based on some is bad. It will mean what is good against him will only get better.