I've been seeing posts about how people can't win with certain squads or that the ships they like to play get trounced by other people. I'm just wondering why you can't get better at the game to play at a high level? I'm not saying that I personally am amazing at this game, but I'm also not whining about it either.

This post is to represent the "Other Side" of xwing where people like to go to tournaments, like to win, play good squads and generally crush bad players in a fun engaging setting of xwing!

If you want to be competitive, let's stick with that caveat...

There are three things that make good players.

1. Be inherently good at flying

2. Fly a good squad

3. Practice like crazy

You have to do at least two of them if you want to be really competitive.

1 minute ago, Killerardvark said:

If you want to be competitive, let's stick with that caveat...

There are three things that make good players.

1. Be inherently good at flying

2. Fly a good squad

3. Practice like crazy

You have to do at least two of them if you want to be really competitive.

at what point does choosing to not do any of those things allow you to whine and complain about it on the forums?

There's a reason why the Krayt mantra is "Git Gud" and mynock is "fly better". You have to be competitive and win. If you're not going to put in the effort, don't expect wins to be handed to you.

21 minutes ago, Luke C said:

at what point does choosing to not do any of those things allow you to whine and complain about it on the forums?

The issue comes in part from the fact that what many people want to fly does not constitute a "good squad". At the moment, if you want to fly most of the classic ships competitively, you need to invest a lot of time into practicing with that squad as well as a lot of mental energy into "gitting gud." That's a lot to ask for a hobby, especially for those with large course loads, demanding jobs, and/or families. The alternative is to run a squad you don't like while still practicing a lot and/or doing a lot of theorycrafting and visualization practice (And summoning the will to do those things is more difficult when you don't like the squad you're running). Neither of these is ideal, thus people's dissatisfaction with the current state of the competitive X-wing.

Just now, Squark said:

The issue comes in part from the fact that what many people want to fly does not constitute a "good squad". At the moment, if you want to fly most of the classic ships competitively, you need to invest a lot of time into practicing with that squad as well as a lot of mental energy into "gitting gud." That's a lot to ask for a hobby, especially for those with large course loads, demanding jobs, and/or families. The alternative is to run a squad you don't like while still practicing a lot and/or doing a lot of theorycrafting and visualization practice (And summoning the will to do those things is more difficult when you don't like the squad you're running). Neither of these is ideal, thus people's dissatisfaction with the current state of the competitive X-wing.

You make time for things you want to improve at. Don't play competitively, dont whine, both are fine options for me. I wish I could keep up on this season of Diablo 3, but I can't. Im not over on blizzards forums whining at how im not on the top of the leader boards.

People should cry a lot more about this... maybe that will make them better at the game.

Just now, Luke C said:

You make time for things you want to improve at. Don't play competitively, dont whine, both are fine options for me. I wish I could keep up on this season of Diablo 3, but I can't. Im not over on blizzards forums whining at how im not on the top of the leader boards.

People should cry a lot more about this... maybe that will make them better at the game.

That's a bit of a strawman argument, or at least hyperbolic- I don't think I've seen anyone complain that they, personally, cannot make the top cut at worlds/nationals (I might be overestimating the distinction of making it to the top of the Diablo 3 leader boards, but I confess I know very little about the game).

I suppose they could stop complaining about the competitive metagame, though, if it really causes you that much distress. Of course, that would most likely happen because that they'd quit the game or at least stop buying most of the new products, and I don't think you want FFG to lose all that revenue, because that would mean a lot less tournament support.

Q: Why can't I be better?

A: Because I suck at Tabletop Miniature Games.

Q: Why are you even here then ya fool?

A: Star Wars. Why else.

1 hour ago, Killerardvark said:

There are three things that make good players.

1. Be inherently good at flying

2. Fly a good squad

3. Practice like crazy

1. I'm not.

2. I want to fly what I want to fly.

3. XWM is not my day job and shouldn't feel like it.

1 hour ago, Luke C said:

at what point does choosing to not do any of those things allow you to whine and complain about it on the forums?

When FFG does not produce anything for non-standard play or make this game feel like Star Wars.

25 minutes ago, Squark said:

I suppose they could stop complaining about the competitive metagame, though, if it really causes you that much distress. Of course, that would most likely happen because that they'd quit the game or at least stop buying most of the new products , and I don't think you want FFG to lose all that revenue, because that would mean a lot less tournament support.

^This is will be the result of all of the above.

1 hour ago, Luke C said:

I've been seeing posts about how people can't win with certain squads or that the ships they like to play get trounced by other people. I'm just wondering why you can't get better at the game to play at a high level? I'm not saying that I personally am amazing at this game, but I'm also not whining about it either.

I interpret this somewhat differently. A significant number of people aren't interested in playing well, or improving--they're here to muck about with Star Wars ships. And in competitive play, "mucking about" is a fool's errand and "Star Wars" is a secondary consideration.

This all would be fine, except that FFG does little to support and promote casual mucking about. Their sponsored events are all tournaments, and their supported play frameworks--Standard and Epic alike--are designed in such a way such that competitive behavior is emergent. Ergo, without a determinedly "casual" community around you, all roads lead to competitiveness, where Star Wars muck-about is unsatisfying.

10 minutes ago, fiesta0618 said:

I interpret this somewhat differently. A significant number of people aren't interested in playing well, or improving--they're here to muck about with Star Wars ships. And in competitive play, "mucking about" is a fool's errand and "Star Wars" is a secondary consideration.

This all would be fine, except that FFG does little to support and promote casual mucking about. Their sponsored events are all tournaments, and their supported play frameworks--Standard and Epic alike--are designed in such a way such that competitive behavior is emergent. Ergo, without a determinedly "casual" community around you, all roads lead to competitiveness, where Star Wars muck-about is unsatisfying.

Or, for that matter, people want to play well and improve, but do so playing with Star Wars ships.

10 minutes ago, Squark said:

Or, for that matter, people want to play well and improve, but do so playing with Star Wars ships.

Also true. But if you are deliberately accepting such a handicap without tempering your pursuit of improvement and success, you'd be wise to also modify your personal success criteria. If you want to fly Red Squadron as well as it can possibly be flown, for example, your success criteria will need space to allow the losses to the many hard counters you will face. The goals of "I want to fly a specific ship" and "I want to win events regularly" are somewhat in conflict with one another, and in such a case I'd judge that the OP's head-scratching at the whining is justified. One of these priorities must necessarily be higher than the other.

1 hour ago, Killerardvark said:

If you want to be competitive, let's stick with that caveat...

There are three things that make good players.

1. Be inherently good at flying

2. Fly a good squad

3. Practice like crazy

You have to do at least two of them if you want to be really competitive.

You forgot:

4. Be less bad

There's a certain investment players make into their ships, whether that is time, money, or years of nostalgia. That investment means when the ship is lack luster they feel deprived of value. If you play casually (at home with friends) feel free to "buff" your favorite ships, give Xwings 4 attack dice, or cheaper cost. Put a mobile arc on the Falcon. No one is stopping you.

If you play competitively, yes, you may not be able to perform well with your favorite squad, either from bad match ups or inefficiency. That's not to say youre a bad player or the cards used against are "overpowered", it's simply how the game works.

For anyone "whining" about the game, take a step back from the competitive scene and go back to having fun!

After this month I will be over Miranda/Biggs/Stress Y and look forward to going back to my fun list like quad TIE bombers and Scum HWKs.

32 minutes ago, killerbeardhawk said:

There's a certain investment players make into their ships, whether that is time, money, or years of nostalgia. That investment means when the ship is lack luster they feel deprived of value. If you play casually (at home with friends) feel free to "buff" your favorite ships, give Xwings 4 attack dice, or cheaper cost. Put a mobile arc on the Falcon. No one is stopping you.

This attitude is absolute crap, and it is repeated constantly. I should be able to find just as much value in this game out of the box while playing it at the dining room table as a player at a tournament table. On the whole, it is not happening. Telling casual players that it is their job to fill in the holes in the game to make it less tournamenty just shows how little support their is for this game if you want to play X-Wing THE STAR WARS Miniature Game.

3 minutes ago, Luke C said:

No one cares about your feelings.

Likewise. This is just a whine thread about whine threads. How is that better? Maybe you should just git gud at browsing forums.

I'm trying to be Daddy, please don't beat me,

2 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

Likewise. This is just a whine thread about whine threads. How is that better? Maybe you should just git gud at browsing forums.

Touché sir. My point still stands. Bad players find any excuse to whine about why they are bad and it's never them. They need to either start cooking or get out of the kitchen

18 minutes ago, Luke C said:

Ugh. Just. Stop. Whining. If you don't like it. Leave. I don't even care if the game dies because you do. I would rather this game implode than read more about how this game isn't Star Wars enough.

No one cares about your feelings.

HA! I'm not the fool that started a thread with a trolling title in which I can express my feelings.

Not that you care.

11 minutes ago, Luke C said:

Ugh. Just. Stop. Whining. If you don't like it. Leave. I don't even care if the game dies because you do. I would rather this game implode than read more about how this game isn't Star Wars enough.

No one cares about your feelings.

Rude.

2 minutes ago, codegnave said:

Rude.

People being bad and then whining that they don't have time to practice is rude.

Just now, Luke C said:

People being bad and then whining that they don't have time to practice is rude.

Not really, because they aren't directly speaking to you. If you find it annoying thats fine. But calling people out on is questionable, and saying it directly to one person is just rude.

People don't like being called bad. No one likes that, the only reason you would phrase it that way is to be combative. I don't see much point to that honestly.

I personally find that the idea that basic ships like the classics should not require major time investments to be decent at them. But its not, and if people want to do it now then they need to put in the time. But they can still request that things change, otherwise there would be no impious for the devs to change them.

It would be nice to have the forums moderated, so that extraneous topics could be merged and etiquette could be enforced.

5 minutes ago, codegnave said:

Not really, because they aren't directly speaking to you. If you find it annoying thats fine. But calling people out on is questionable, and saying it directly to one person is just rude.

People don't like being called bad. No one likes that, the only reason you would phrase it that way is to be combative. I don't see much point to that honestly.

I personally find that the idea that basic ships like the classics should not require major time investments to be decent at them. But its not, and if people want to do it now then they need to put in the time. But they can still request that things change, otherwise there would be no impious for the devs to change them.

It would be nice to have the forums moderated, so that extraneous topics could be merged and etiquette could be enforced.

Too bad people are bad and need to be told so they can practice. Git Gud

1 minute ago, Luke C said:

Too bad people are bad and need to be told so they can practice. Git Gud

Nah, you are just being rude to get a thrill out of it. Its a game, there isn't even prize money at the highest level of competition. If you can't be friendly in a friendly competition then what's the point?

3 hours ago, Luke C said:

I've been seeing posts about how people can't win with certain squads or that the ships they like to play get trounced by other people. I'm just wondering why you can't get better at the game to play at a high level? I'm not saying that I personally am amazing at this game, but I'm also not whining about it either.

This post is to represent the "Other Side" of xwing where people like to go to tournaments, like to win, play good squads and generally crush bad players in a fun engaging setting of xwing!

Good players with sub-par squads can do good. Good players with good squads can do even better.

Take player skill out of the equation. Certain squads just get trounced by others, and that's what people are complaining about. "gitting gud" can only take you so far.