It is possible that Light Bringer (the official unofficial title of the Hammerhead) could die after ramming. But that would require 6 damage and an Acc, or multiple attacks. Either way, that's a cheap ship taking the brunt of the attack instead of the Lib.

In this case, I think taking 2-3 Hammerheads is better than taking 1 MC30, depending on the cost. The activation advantage is great to have, and it has a much greater threat range. They simply cover more ground, and I could take APT on all 3. I tend to see MC30s in the 80-100 point range, so it's not unreasonable to fit some upgrades on the Hammerheads for a similar cost. Not to mention the generic titles look like you want to run multiples, so there is that.

I'm fully aware pulling Projector Misaligned or Shield Failure is slim even with Dodonna. But there are plenty of other crits that can increase the chances of Light Bringer surviving the attack. Or bid for 1st player and activate it after the target has, then go first to move away.

But it's hard to know what exactly the list will do until the next article reveals all the cards.

I mean I expect the Garel's Honor to be a feature in Dodonna fleets once wave 6 hits, likely in addition to APT MC30s. I don't see there being much of a conflict there.

The Torpedo Hammerheads have an ordnance slot (or else they wouldn't be packaged with the External Racks) which means you could try for the APTs there but the black dice are not present in sufficient quantities to make that reliable.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Good news is these ships look like they have smaller batteries than the Raider.

I'm not excited for a low 30 point ship because it will make the activation game even worse. Instead of people fighting over flotillas, they will be fighting of Hammerheads, since you can run 5-6 for under 200 points AND they get to attack with 3-5 dice

I just can't see these being in the low 30s that would put them closer to a gozanti then a CR90 and if you look at the primary arcs and hull that does not add up:

Primary arc fire power:

gozanti 1 dice

hammerhead 3 dice

CR90 3 dice

primary arc shield power:

gozanti 1

hammerhead 2

CR90 2

HULL

Gozanti 3

hammerhead 3 or 5 ( I think 5)

CR90 4

Yes it has one less dice and shield on its secondary arc than a CR90, but I think the 3 dice 2 shield primary is going to put it closer points wise to a CR90 that the 1 shield 1 dice gozanti.

So for me if you follow that on the red dice version will be around 39-40 points mark, so it's just a bit more/same as a CR90b, (FFG do value range) the short range version will likely be 5 points cheaper ( as per the CR90 and Gizanti) at 34-35 ( I think 35 will be it).

But even in the high 30s I agree It's still very low points for an actual combat ship ( gozanti being more support) and It is starting to stack in the favour of rebel MSu fleets getting 8- 9 ships in a fleet each able to throw 3 red dice from one arc which is a bit iffy, especially since the cards would indicate it may have a turbolaser upgrade, with evade for TLRC and the chance of gunnery teams.

Or

sato with 8 of these all rocking OE..... If they have also given the red dice version an ordinance slot you will have the potential for a sub 50 point APT, OE toting long range black dice monster.....

3 minutes ago, Johnnyreb said:

But even in the high 30s I agree It's still very low points for an actual combat ship ( gozanti being more support) and It is starting to stack in the favour of rebel MSk fleets getting 8- 9 ships in a fleet each able to throw 3 red dice from one arc which is a bit iffy, especially since the cards would indicate it may have a turbolaser upgrade, with evade for TLRC and the chance of gunnery teams.

I'm not sure what the point cost is. People have said low 30s to mid 40s. I expect the cheap version to be less than the CR90B, but not by much. Based on the CR90 and Raider, I doubt the long range version will have Ordnance and Turbolaser. The trend is 1 weapon slot and switching it for the other version. So Ordnance and Ion on Raiders. Turbolaser and Ion on CR90s. In this case, Ordnance and Turbolaser, which would be cool to see.

I had not considered the long range version having a Weapons Team slot. Ackbar+GT at medium is 3 dice at 2 targets. Not sure how effective that could really be. We also have a turbolaser upgrade in the pack.

I do think 5 hull is too much. Hopefully these things die easily.

14 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

It is possible that Light Bringer (the official unofficial title of the Hammerhead) could die after ramming. But that would require 6 damage and an Acc, or multiple attacks. Either way, that's a cheap ship taking the brunt of the attack instead of the Lib.

Of course. But I mean, with popular internet belief , how many times have you seen a Demolisher completely dumped on when it fails to kill its Triple-Tap Target through whatever means? I mean, that's the counter to the Demolisher - right? Making sure it doesn't trade up by killing it. Or at least, not trading up twice

I see that applying in the most part.

As a fleet, as an option, I think its a great Idea. Dodonna + Garel's Honor is going to have many wonderful Ship-Hugs. But you can't base a solid inherent battleline tactic around it, in my opinion, without stacking a lot more in your favour, and pushing on even more ship crits to simply fish for things.

I mean, sticking APTs onto Garel's Honor itself, with OE, is going to make a difference for one... Getting Regular Cards and Boarding Engineers... That's another...

Broaden the Horizon (which I think you're intending on doing, but just not articulating), and it'll get more smiles from me...

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

We also have a turbolaser upgrade in the pack.

Do we?



I don't see it. Quad battery turrets is a possibility , but it might also be an Offensive Retrofit i as it is also in the Quasar Pack, and the both share that slot.

Yeah my money is on the Quad Battery Turrets being an Offensive Retrofit. The longer-ranged Hammerhead only gets 2 total red dice in the front and the longer-ranged Quasar is similarly not exactly bristling with red dice, so a turbolaser slot on both seems like a stretch.

9 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Broaden the Horizon (which I think you're intending on doing, but just not articulating), and it'll get more smiles from me...

It's hard to without knowing more about the ship. I ordered 2 already, so I can run 4. If the ship is 35 points, I'd love to run 4 with OE and APT. Or Veteran Gunners with APT. If it's 40 points, I'd be hard pressed to put 9 points into each ship.

10 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I don't see it. Quad battery turrets is a possibility , but it might also be an Offensive Retrofit i as it is also in the Quasar Pack, and the both share that slot.

5 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Yeah my money is on the Quad Battery Turrets being an Offensive Retrofit. The longer-ranged Hammerhead only gets 2 total red dice in the front and the longer-ranged Quasar is similarly not exactly bristling with red dice, so a turbolaser slot on both seems like a stretch.

I totally forget we had talked about that in another thread hahaha. Yea it is likely to be offensive slot.

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

It's hard to without knowing more about the ship. I ordered 2 already, so I can run 4. If the ship is 35 points, I'd love to run 4 with OE and APT. Or Veteran Gunners with APT. If it's 40 points, I'd be hard pressed to put 9 points into each ship.

I mean honestly I rarely put crit-dependent ordnance upgrades on my Raiders (barring Flechette Torpedoes which are a bit different or when I'm using Screed, of course) and their black dice suite is much more likely to get the crit than a Hammerhead's and points-wise those upgrades are (presumably) less of their total cost %. I can't say I'd recommend it on Hammerheads. Just spend those points towards more Hammerheads, basically.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Drop the dead weight flotilla, which doesn't do much, and get a ship that has about the same survival rate at medium range

Cannot agree with that, the difference is again on the defense tokens. Best tokens in order are:

Long range: Scatter, Evade-Brace (depending on the amount of damage taken), Redirect, Contain.
Medium Range: Scatter, Brace, Redirect-Evade (random re-roll factor), Contain.
Close Range: Scatter, Brace, Redirect, Contain, Evade.

This is just a general aproximation.

Can you see the pattern there? The defense tokens play is critical in this game. Scatter is always on top. The flotilla, despite its hull and shields is a way more sneaky target than a ship that is going to take at least 1 damage all the time from every shot. Flotillas will still have their place thats for sure. The survivavility for the HH is quite low following the table above and acknowledging its role of close combat-ramming-boarding parties role.

9 minutes ago, xerpo said:

Cannot agree with that, the difference is again on the defense tokens. Best tokens in order are:

Long range: Scatter, Evade-Brace (depending on the amount of damage taken), Redirect, Contain.
Medium Range: Scatter, Brace, Redirect-Evade (random re-roll factor), Contain.
Close Range: Scatter, Brace, Redirect, Contain, Evade.

This is just a general aproximation.

Can you see the pattern there? The defense tokens play is critical in this game. Scatter is always on top. The flotilla, despite its hull and shields is a way more sneaky target than a ship that is going to take at least 1 damage all the time from every shot. Flotillas will still have their place thats for sure. The survivavility for the HH is quite low following the table above and acknowledging its role of close combat-ramming-boarding parties role.

Right but 1 Acc and your brace, scatter or redirect is gone. And the chances of that being rolled at medium is quite high. More so with ships that can reroll their whole attack pool. Which is why the HH is more likely to survive at medium than a flotilla. It has 2 shields and 5 hull to chew threw, compared to 1 shield and 3 hull.

If your going to compare every ship with defense tokens, of course flotillas are going to be "invincible". Why take anything else than flotillas if you want things to survive? Considering they can't deal much damage and it takes 4 damage and 1 Acc to kill them at medium, I wouldn't say they are very good to bring into the middle of a fight.

30 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I mean honestly I rarely put crit-dependent ordnance upgrades on my Raiders (barring Flechette Torpedoes which are a bit different or when I'm using Screed, of course) and their black dice suite is much more likely to get the crit than a Hammerhead's and points-wise those upgrades are (presumably) less of their total cost %. I can't say I'd recommend it on Hammerheads. Just spend those points towards more Hammerheads, basically.

So you're saying I shouldn't run 8 with EL and OE with Rieekan? Cuz Ima ram you, then spit black dice at you.

35 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Right but 1 Acc and your brace, scatter or redirect is gone. And the chances of that being rolled at medium is quite high. More so with ships that can reroll their whole attack pool. Which is why the HH is more likely to survive at medium than a flotilla. It has 2 shields and 5 hull to chew threw, compared to 1 shield and 3 hull.

If your going to compare every ship with defense tokens, of course flotillas are going to be "invincible". Why take anything else than flotillas if you want things to survive? Considering they can't deal much damage and it takes 4 damage and 1 Acc to kill them at medium, I wouldn't say they are very good to bring into the middle of a fight.

To be honest, HH has only 1 more shield overall than a flotilla, so it makes it 3 hits more durable and only targetting the front hull. 3 damage at medium-close range makes no such a difference, maybe 1 more turn if youre lucky, thats all you've got. Not mentioning invincible flotillas like Gozanti+tua+ecm, you can always rely on the scatter if the enemy don't hit the accuracy, difference is that he gives a **** about accuracy when targeting your HH snice its probably going to blow as it will take everithing he rolls. Everything.

Question is, are you willing to lose X points, lets say (30-35) to roll 5 dices once in the whole 6 turns?

3 minutes ago, xerpo said:

To be honest, HH has only 1 more shield overall than a flotilla, so it makes it 3 hits more durable and only targetting the front hull. 3 damage at medium-close range makes no such a difference, maybe 1 more turn if youre lucky, thats all you've got. Not mentioning invincible flotillas like Gozanti+tua+ecm, you can always rely on the scatter if the enemy don't hit the accuracy, difference is that he gives a **** about accuracy when targeting your HH snice its probably going to blow as it will take everithing he rolls. Everything.

Question is, are you willing to lose X points, lets say (30-35) to roll 5 dices once in the whole 6 turns?

5 dice. 3 blacks. 1 blue. 1 red. Not bad if you ask me. Better than the 1 or 2 from a flotilla.

If my opponent is going to devote to attacking a HH or a flotilla, that's fine with me. It means my main ship is not taking damage. But I'd still prefer the higher hull and shields than knowing my flotilla is going to die if 1 Acc is rolled. And if the HH lives, that's another 5 dice. And attacking literally any other ship means you're taking all the damage. Since Acc locks down the Brace.

Seems more a difference of opinion in play style to me. I like to have ships that can deal damage and threaten, instead of passive ships not doing much.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

So you're saying I shouldn't run 8 with EL and OE with Rieekan? Cuz Ima ram you, then spit black dice at you.

Most assuredly you should not.

Use External Racks instead!