In DeKalb

I'd second trying out vassal. It can take some getting used to, but it is well worth it! I'm kinda in the middle of nowhere myself and maybe get an IRL tournament every few months (usually with 2-4 attendees). Vassal really helped me to get in games when I otherwise couldn't, and I've met a lot of good friends through it (some of whom I've had the pleasure to meet IRL).

Also, Reinholt, I'm deeply saddened by how you currently feel the gamestate is. You are entitled to your opinions, and many people have been open to calm discussion about the topic. I'm saddened to see you resort to the tactics you seem to condemn in others, it doesn't suit you.

15 minutes ago, Moore1980 said:

In DeKalb

I can understand a "No" but we're playing every Thursday night at 6 in Downer's Grove. If you want to travel out to us? Again, I understand not wanting to drive 45 minutes one way for a game.

Where in NE Ohio where you playing may I ask? I know on the western side of Cleveland there is a group of 4-7 that rotate between two different shops; Immortals and Recess. Though I have been told by a very unregelar member of our group that there was another group on the eastern side of town. We use to play weekly buts it's pretty much biweekly right now.

Now that you are playing 1 vs 1s you are liberated from the current issues with tourney lists. You can make demolisher and Ackbar cost more points for example. In our group which is only 3 of us but fairly reliable, we are not playing with the most recent crop of fighters, and so without relay the flotillas are manageable. We we built a great 1vs 1 campaign structure which keeps the game fresh. If you keep playing regularly, you will attract a few new players.

9 hours ago, JJs Juggernaut said:

I'd second trying out vassal. It can take some getting used to, but it is well worth it! I'm kinda in the middle of nowhere myself and maybe get an IRL tournament every few months (usually with 2-4 attendees). Vassal really helped me to get in games when I otherwise couldn't, and I've met a lot of good friends through it (some of whom I've had the pleasure to meet IRL).

I'm deeply considering it.... I think my PC may need a quick upgrade if I do go that route. I run my screen on a 55" HDTV, so if I upgrade my graphics card to run a second screen I'd be able to multitask a little easier...

8 hours ago, SilentSteve said:

Where in NE Ohio where you playing may I ask? I know on the western side of Cleveland there is a group of 4-7 that rotate between two different shops; Immortals and Recess. Though I have been told by a very unregelar member of our group that there was another group on the eastern side of town. We use to play weekly buts it's pretty much biweekly right now.

9258 Market Square Dr, Streetsboro, OH 44241

Empire Game Center, normally friday nights after 6:00pm

12 hours ago, JJs Juggernaut said:

Also, Reinholt, I'm deeply saddened by how you currently feel the gamestate is. You are entitled to your opinions, and many people have been open to calm discussion about the topic. I'm saddened to see you resort to the tactics you seem to condemn in others, it doesn't suit you.

A couple of quick notes:

1 - You've clearly never dealt with me at work! I would suggest as a final object lesson for the community that when people are repeatedly shouted down, formerly constructive members of the community will turn against said community.

2 - On the final note, several of us have already started bailing out on Armada but I finally hit the bid on doing so as well. It would take a very large change to mechanics and flotillas to make me give Armada a second look.

3 - To that end, while I am guilty of spiking the football earlier, I will rephrase a point that has been expressed elsewhere: there is an axiom in business that for every one customer who complains on the way out, 10 others thought the same thing but left quietly. We are now seeing multiple stories of communities collapsing inwards, shrinking enthusiam, and people quitting the game. FFG will be experiencing shrinking sales (perhaps already, certainly on a forward basis) as a result of this. Regardless of anyone's personal opinion (mine included), I would suggest the constant threads about flotillas should be a giant red flag from a business perspective because they are accompanied by stories of less games being played, if nothing else.

So with that, I am out. Later, people.

I'm seeing a lot of groups having issues with people leaving for college.

It may sound weird, but if you want real stability in a gaming group - find some older folks to anchor it. They tend to move less and often have enough disposable income to seriously commit to a game.

Just now, Democratus said:

I'm seeing a lot of groups having issues with people leaving for college.

It may sound weird, but if you want real stability in a gaming group - find some older folks to anchor it. They tend to move less and often have enough disposable income to seriously commit to a game.

We have a few, early 30s- mid 40s, they're consistent, the issue we run into with most of our older players is they have kids-work-other hobbies... can make meeting up a hassle.

But yeah, I'd say you're right, our older members are definitely more consistent

21 minutes ago, Reinholt said:

A couple of quick notes:

1 - You've clearly never dealt with me at work! I would suggest as a final object lesson for the community that when people are repeatedly shouted down, formerly constructive members of the community will turn against said community.

2 - On the final note, several of us have already started bailing out on Armada but I finally hit the bid on doing so as well. It would take a very large change to mechanics and flotillas to make me give Armada a second look.

3 - To that end, while I am guilty of spiking the football earlier, I will rephrase a point that has been expressed elsewhere: there is an axiom in business that for every one customer who complains on the way out, 10 others thought the same thing but left quietly. We are now seeing multiple stories of communities collapsing inwards, shrinking enthusiam, and people quitting the game. FFG will be experiencing shrinking sales (perhaps already, certainly on a forward basis) as a result of this. Regardless of anyone's personal opinion (mine included), I would suggest the constant threads about flotillas should be a giant red flag from a business perspective because they are accompanied by stories of less games being played, if nothing else.

So with that, I am out. Later, people.

I've said it before. I'm really sorry that you feel this way, and that the game isn't scratching your itch. I hope that any game changes and additional waves inspire you and others to stay.

I will take exception with the idea that the forum isn't helpful or is "shouting you down." There may be a few jerks that do that, but it is by no means the majority of the forum. The last couple of "Flotilla" threads for the most part, had good arguments and discussion. This is the Internet, so there are always clowns that resort to being idiots, because these aren't face to face communications. I do think the idiots are in the minority.

Armada, hell any miniatures game, really amazes me. It takes a lot of time and costs a lot of money. There can never be a huge number of folks doing this. It amazes me that we even got 6 in my area to do a CC. However, I still really like this game, so I'll go wherever to play it, and play on Vassal becasue I like that too.

The overwhelming idea I want to present is that the coolest thing about Armada is nerds getting together to play. The community is actually pretty great. With Worlds coming up, we should all remember that.

39 minutes ago, Reinholt said:

I would suggest as a final object lesson for the community that when people are repeatedly shouted down, formerly constructive members of the community will turn against said community.

So cool of you to come here, a thread made by me, one of the guys who hasn't come into your threads to piss on your Cheerios, so you could "turn against the community". That's lots of fun. Thanks for that.

50 minutes ago, Reinholt said:

On the final note, several of us have already started bailing out on Armada but I finally hit the bid on doing so as well. It would take a very large change to mechanics and flotillas to make me give Armada a second look.

57 minutes ago, Reinholt said:

there is an axiom in business that for every one customer who complains on the way out, 10 others thought the same thing but left quietly. We are now seeing multiple stories of communities collapsing inwards, shrinking enthusiam, and people quitting the game. FFG will be experiencing shrinking sales (perhaps already, certainly on a forward basis) as a result of this. Regardless of anyone's personal opinion (mine included), I would suggest the constant threads about flotillas should be a giant red flag from a business perspective because they are accompanied by stories of less games being played, if nothing else.

If the reasoning behind their moving away has to do with the mechanical side of the game, it would be the first time any one of them expressed anything other than enjoyment for the game. Our community was open, we tried house rules, and we listened to our members, we would sit and BS after games about what works and what doesn't. We were there to have fun, it was not a heavily competitive environment. Add to that that the people moving away from our group did so not after 30+ games of wave 3&4 but only a month after wave 5, leads me to think if "boredom" was the actual cause and not the excuse they gave, then it wasn't from wave 3, but from wave 5.


In any case, I hardly think negative responses to your opinion made by other folks in other threads is a reasonable excuse to be a **** here.

1 hour ago, Reinholt said:

A couple of quick notes:

1 - You've clearly never dealt with me at work! I would suggest as a final object lesson for the community that when people are repeatedly shouted down, formerly constructive members of the community will turn against said community.

2 - On the final note, several of us have already started bailing out on Armada but I finally hit the bid on doing so as well. It would take a very large change to mechanics and flotillas to make me give Armada a second look.

3 - To that end, while I am guilty of spiking the football earlier, I will rephrase a point that has been expressed elsewhere: there is an axiom in business that for every one customer who complains on the way out, 10 others thought the same thing but left quietly. We are now seeing multiple stories of communities collapsing inwards, shrinking enthusiam, and people quitting the game. FFG will be experiencing shrinking sales (perhaps already, certainly on a forward basis) as a result of this. Regardless of anyone's personal opinion (mine included), I would suggest the constant threads about flotillas should be a giant red flag from a business perspective because they are accompanied by stories of less games being played, if nothing else.

So with that, I am out. Later, people.

I blame Ben.

I've been avoiding the forums of late because of the rampant negativity people like Rienholt have been perpetuating. The only shouting down I've seen is from people claiming, once again, the game is dying, this time because flotillas are supposedly terrible for the game. I watch people like CNinja and JJ try to have rational discussions, only to be accused of shouting people down. Please stop. I love this community because it is usually so positive and welcoming. That has not been the case on these forums of late. I wish you had come to the Stele Open. I've been high on our community since that fantastic experience. If you're tired of 2 ships+flots, bring something else. My latest is 4 combat ships and 2 flots with freaking Madine and I'm having a total blast.

2 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

I've been avoiding the forums of late because of the rampant negativity people like Rienholt have been perpetuating. The only shouting down I've seen is fro. people claiming, once again, the game is dying, this time because flotillas are supposedly terrible for the game. I watch people like CNinja and JJ try to have rational discussions, only to be accused of shouting people down. Please stop. I love this community because it is usually so positive and welcoming. That has not been the case on these forums of late. I wish you had come to the Stele Open. I've been high on our community since that fantastic experience. If you're tried of 2 ships+flots, bring something else. My latest is 4 combat ships and 2 flots with freaking Madine and I'm having a total blast.

This for days. (I wasn't at Stele Open, but I wanted to be.)

On 4/18/2017 at 0:31 AM, Darth Sanguis said:

I hate to say it but I think I'm depressed.

Over Christmas the founding member of our gaming group in NE Ohio had to move back to California. He was a really charismatic fellow and did a great job inspiring people to come play. After he left the group has basically fallen apart. I tried to step into his shoes and encourage players to come out, even offered free pizza and soda, I can barely get 3 people to show up, and almost never on the same day.

Two of our members announced they're selling their ships last week and another told me Saturday he's stepping away from Armada...

I tried running tournaments, and organizing CC events, nothing seems to have worked....

Any of you guys feel like moving to NE Ohio, make it suck less here?

I feel the pain. Here on the base it was only two of us. The other player decided that he did not want to play anymore. So I am trying to get more people to come play but no one is even remotely interested. So my Armada stuff is sitting in a corner collecting dust in hopes my friend will get the desire to play again

I haven't been around the forums much lately, but I am always attracted to topics on how to build and grow our community. It is impossible to discuss that coherently without also discussing what kinds of things make communities fall apart, and in some cases, dealing with the tragic difficulties of watching one or more fall apart.

First, I am very sorry to hear that your community is on the ropes. That sounds like it really sucks. I've certainly been through my ups and downs with groups (I am Classic Ben, after all. )

Second, I'd say to recognize that sometimes gaming groups fall apart for reasons that are just beyond all of our control. I know I've not been invested as much in the forums lately, and I've even missed a tournament that I really wanted to go to. The reasons there were simply that I had a lot going on in life outside of gaming that I simply had to deal with. Furthermore, as part of the leisure activities in life, we all have to make choices in where we are going to invest that leisure time. I find myself playing computer games, playing a musical keyboard, attending a rennaisance faire recently, running 25+ miles per week. If we can recognize that tons of people have lots of things going on in life and that they invest in their gaming habit as one of among many activities, we'll come across more friendly and respectful and less demanding. And that can only help our communities grow.

Third, I'd recognize that people get into a game like Star Wars Armada for different kinds of reasons. The forums attract quite the crowd of competitive gamers. That's one small slice of the total pie of gamers. Your competitive gamers can sometimes leave if the game feels stale (That's the Reinholt post. He's a guy whose opinion I highly respect even if we've got some sarcastic snark here). I'd have to put myself in this category, because I've gone to 5 regionals and GenCon and I enjoy talking with the other competitive gamers. There is a strategic richness to the game that I enjoy and it appeals to me like chess. For other players, they want a Star Wars themed game that allows them to simulate a feel of the movies with a ruleset that isn't boring. Others are social gamers, which means they'll play just about any game as long as they like the people that they get to hang with. Probably most of us have a bit of each of these traits. Keeping your community together can often be a task of managing players whose play preferences range across a spectrum of these categories, and if a community gets overrun by predominately one group, then it can have the affect of running off the others.

Beyond that, you can only do the little things that you seem already to have done. As long as you've got some regular gatherings and regular tournaments, there's plenty that can attract community.

Here's what I've seen in central Texas.

1. Austin: This is where I'm at. We had 7 Monday at our regular FLGS play day. We had 4 last week, and we've had as high as 8. These are our best numbers in all of the time that I've been playing Star Wars Armada in Austin. We don't always see the same people every week, so the number of active players is quite a bit larger. We've gotten quite a good group of new players. And that's a small percentage of what happens in Austin. I've Democratus once and he's got a group that player regularly in their homes. Another guy is working on getting some gatherings together at a couple of the other stores. It is probably the best it has been.

2. San Antonio: I probably talk with Brikhause every 2-3 days, and he's had quite the influx of new players there. They ran a newbie tournament a few weeks ago to give them some tournament practice without having to play the likes of Ardaedhel, Brikhause, or myself. I was there two weeks ago for a casual tournament that drew 14 players. That's larger than some entire regional events. Brikhause will attest that a lot of what makes the community works is that it is a group of players who enjoy each other's company, and Armada is the focal point that creates that camaraderie. Friendships extend beyond the game night and translate into people playing other games with each other, getting beers together, and grabbing movie events. It is one of the healthiest gaming community's I've ever seen. There's a reason why I'm happy to drive 1.5 hours to hang with them.

3. Kileen: Military bases are good crowds for miniature war gaming, and Parkdaddy has been active meeting us in central Texas in both Austin and San Antonio as well as building community on the base. They have their first weekend tournament this coming weekend. I understand that there's a good growing core there.

So no, the world is not coming to an end. Yes, there's a problem in the high competitive end with flotillas. The forum has seen plenty of debate on the topic, and I'll confess to giving those threads the barest skim, so please forgive me if I appear ignorant of every last post within. I can respect healthy disagreement, and that a number of key players have explained some different dimensions to those debates. I'll only note that over the past few months I've felt a growing staleness in my own play that has certainly affected my enthusiasm for the game. I will express my confidence in FFG, in that from what I saw at GenCon, this is one of the best companies, with their heads glued squarely and correctly on their shoulders. If things do not quite happen in quite the timetable that we want them to (FAQ?), then I can accept that as part and parcel of business. I just see that they have been responsive and have looked very carefully at core mechanic problems and come up with creative solutions. If that is a tepid or insufficient answers to some, I'm ok with that. I've got a few computer games to play, some musical improvisation to do, and another 10k to run.

Classic Ben

I heard @Vergilius runs 10Ks in 10 minutes flat. When he's feeling lazy, of course. Classic Ben.

ACTUAL running question, as a fellow runner. You training for anything, or you topping out at 10Ks?

1 hour ago, geek19 said:

I heard @Vergilius runs 10Ks in 10 minutes flat. When he's feeling lazy, of course. Classic Ben.

ACTUAL running question, as a fellow runner. You training for anything, or you topping out at 10Ks?

No training. Just maintaining health and fitness. Absolutely one of the best stress relievers.

In my area there are 6 of us who play regularly and are highly invested in the game, but recently things have fallen to the wayside because of events out of our control.

One of our players got all of his armada gear stolen, he now knows where it is, but the police are holding it as 'evidence' so he wont get it back for another month +

another has gotten called away on work buisness so the next couple of weeks he wont be there

And finally the third guy has to be TO for another game (bloodbrawl i think) so he cant guarentee his time

So, in total out of the 6 of us (3 reb, 3 imp) we have 2 rebel and one imp player left....

30 minutes ago, Vergilius said:

No training. Just maintaining health and fitness. Absolutely one of the best stress relievers.

My SO says the same thing. I can't help getting bored though, and when I'm bored I think, and before I know it I'm walking, or worse sketching in the dirt. All the more power to you, but I just can't.

Classic Yoda I would say...