21 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

I've always had the impression Star Wars was supposed to be morally simple by author intent, with a definite 'good side' and 'bad side' without exploring the grey area in between or the deeper morals of good/bad guys too much.

The earliest drafts of THE Star Wars had the bogan/ashla split and had one of the characters that was tortured and was being 'consumed' by the bogan, yellow glowing eyes and everything. The force definately had an active evil side from the beginning. But since it was 'the force of others' the naturally neutral Force may have been split by the deeds of force users over the millennia.

when I was a kid I thought of the light and dark sides as more the intention of the individual, and due to a dual nature of the force itself. Vader and the Emperor WERE the Dark Side, they had chosen the path of power and domination, while the Jedi were the light side, choosing the path of healing and freedom. The force itself just exists, and you could choose to follow it or order it per your chosen path.

But it that's not canon, so what evs.

1 hour ago, LunarSol said:

Narratively, the Force just needs to stop being treated as DnD alignments of stat points based on actions. The Dark Side in particular needs better exploration then "kicked a puppy, +2 Dark Side points!"

The problem is that I'm pretty sure almost all of the original Dark Side dialog from RotJ is gibberish, but it has way more interesting perspectives you can take than "doing bad things makes you bad guy".

This is a good point. It isn't simply a matter of what you do but your motivation in doing it. While this is true to an extent:

1 hour ago, LordBlades said:

I've always had the impression Star Wars was supposed to be morally simple by author intent, with a definite 'good side' and 'bad side' without exploring the grey area in between or the deeper morals of good/bad guys too much.

if the story is to mature and the whole thing to be more than re-hashes of the OT then LunarSol's point stands. See Rebels' "Twilight of the Apprentice" for another look at the dark side. There is a lot to explore with the dark side while still keeping it as bad.

1 hour ago, jmswood said:

They tie it back to Bendu: "I'm the one in the middle."

It also explains why Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin manage to become "one with the force" when they die. They both throw off the fanatical devotion to Jedi or Sith before their death in order to serve the force.

Luke, No.

Rey, Yes.

Family reunited when Kylo returns to the light... makes sense. Makes it a family movie. Too easy.

And, in fact, it could be awesome.

But who is Snoke?

Are one of you guys going to create the "Nerf Star Wars!" thread, or should I do it?

I'm very excited for Lucasfilms to explore the 'balance' of the Force more. I've never been a big fan of the balance that Anakin brought to the Force, with the extermination of the last two known Force organizations. It was too simpleminded and clumsy. The addition of it being a prophecy stank of being written into a corner by 4-6 coming out first. I see this new trilogy as a way to move the good guys to the middle-light, while some of the bad guys could move to middle-dark, forsaking the First Order for being the genocidal maniacs that they are. A new organization can be formed, where the Force is thought of as the unifier above any thoughts of light and dark.

^This guy gets it.

Oh. So now it's not just the X-Wing game that needs "saving", but the entire Star Wars universe.

Dude... seriously, just stop posting all the threads on how everything is broken. Really. Just stop.

Luke never completed training (indoctrination?), so he had to deal with the Dark Side on his own and saw the Light was still there in his father. That's not the dualistic template of the Jedi, so that is what he is announcing in that scene. He has not spent the intervening years alone on that island. Something else happened to put him there, and that will undoubtedly be handled in VIII, so it's not simple. This is not going to be a remake of ESB but the elements remain that Rey stands in for Luke in getting training, but it may be more like learning the Force without the Jedi framework.

6 hours ago, ThalanirIII said:

They (Disney) aren't doing any reshoots after Carrie Fisher's passing. Also, as of Rogue One they already had a CGI Carrier Fisher so how's that an issue.

To be honest, I didn't think it was such a prevalent opinion that Star Wars needed saving?

They don't have too reshoot Carrier Fischer. They just have to reshoot the other actors playing their character's reaction after General Leia's ship or planet or what ever she is on blows up and as the news is passed along. Learn cinematography, you don't have to show a character dying to give the implication for that character to be dead.

Why do you people even reply to a obvious troll thread. Every Thread started by shadow goes the same way

10 hours ago, Shadow345 said:

If Luke turned to the darkside and wanted to wipe out the Jedi and bring peace to the galaxy. Rey will follow. Kylo then turns to the lightside to defeat them.

It's the only twist that would shake up the staleness of Star Wars and stop rehashed stories.

No. Just no.

56 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

They don't have too reshoot Carrier Fischer. They just have to reshoot the other actors playing their character's reaction after General Leia's ship or planet or what ever she is on blows up and as the news is passed along. Learn cinematography, you don't have to show a character dying to give the implication for that character to be dead.

That would be writing a story - not cinematography.

The statement "we will not be reshooting Ep VIII after Carrie's death" does not mean, we'll reshoot the scenes she's not in. It means, either she was already dying this film, or they will CGI her in Ep IX.

As much as you all raise good points about Star Wars not needing saving, how inconsistent Luke turning would be (oh please... Anakin murdered the Jedi Temple after Palpy said "do eeet!" twice), my counterpoint is:

1 hour ago, ThalanirIII said:

or they will CGI her in Ep IX.

They've said several times that Leia will not be in Episode IX.

Luke's whole "end the Jedi" thing comes without context. Maybe that's early in the movie while he's trying to deny Rey training. Either to test her or because his failure with Ben has consumed him with despair.

Or, it could be that he sees the "light" Jedi as contributing as much the the ages old conflict of Jedi vs Sith as anything, and he wants to "stop the wheel". No more Jedi, no more Sith. Maybe he wants to build a new tradition that would be more analogous to the Bindu's way of thinking.

We really don't know.

2 hours ago, MarekMandalore said:

it could be that he sees the "light" Jedi as contributing as much the the ages old conflict of Jedi vs Sith as anything, and he wants to "stop the wheel". No more Jedi, no more Sith. Maybe he wants to build a new tradition that would be more analogous to the Bindu's way of thinking.

THIS

I see it as the formation of a new order that lives in the middle with Rey and Kylo being the founders of this. So Kylo is "redeemed". No longer is the forced used in the battle of good vs evil but as a way of life... I think if we look at Chirruit and Baze we may see more of what is to become of "force users".... I'm tired, this makes no sense.

3 hours ago, MarekMandalore said:

Luke's whole "end the Jedi" thing comes without context. Maybe that's early in the movie while he's trying to deny Rey training. Either to test her or because his failure with Ben has consumed him with despair.

Or, it could be that he sees the "light" Jedi as contributing as much the the ages old conflict of Jedi vs Sith as anything, and he wants to "stop the wheel". No more Jedi, no more Sith. Maybe he wants to build a new tradition that would be more analogous to the Bindu's way of thinking.

We really don't know.

Not buying that and will be really disappointed if they go there with this. The Sith are evil not misunderstood. The Jedi don't keep this wheel spinning. See the Sith code:

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

Their passions are what matter. If peace is a lie why do they need to gain power? Theirs is the "might makes right" philosophy the tyranny of evil men not the "might for right" of the knights (Jedi Knights ) of the Round Table. The idea you suggest here that the Jedi are culpable for the evil of the Sith is like the nonsense about Batman being the cause of the evil done by his rogue's gallery.

Evil will cease to exist if good stops fighting it?

The Jedi didn't try fighting the Sith for 19 odd years. Palpatine and Vader didn't just vanish from the galaxy in that time.

10 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

I think the OP was thinking about narratively, not financially. But I also think the OP missed the point of Star Wars, the hero's journey, the mono-myth that has been told and retold for thousands of years.

The OP wasn't thinking about anything other than kicking up a sh!T storm. @Shadow345 occasionally pops in to drop a troll thread and then sits back and watches the show. He doesn't even try to hide it at this point as virtually all of his post are "Can X save Y?" Where x = whatever random thing he thought up at breakfast, and y = something that a lot of people love and don't think needs saving. The community is so awesome though that he actually continues to get more sincere responses to his post than anything else, but the idea that he is actually attempting to achieve thoughtful discussion is giving him entirely too much credit.

Star Wars, you were suppose to bring balance to the movie theater not leave it in ruin!

13 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Dark Empire sucked.

But great art

8 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

But great art

I did love the water colors, very evocative. Too bad they didn't use that style to illustrate the Thrawn Trilogy

7 hours ago, ThalanirIII said:

That would be writing a story - not cinematography.

The statement "we will not be reshooting Ep VIII after Carrie's death" does not mean, we'll reshoot the scenes she's not in. It means, either she was already dying this film, or they will CGI her in Ep IX.

You never heard of the Kuleshov effect? Yes the story of Episode 9 is being rewritten as we speak (they still have over 2 years to release it) so that's a given. But you mention what I speculated that they are doing. Re-shooting all the other characters to make it look like General Leai died. With a certain amount of editing they can have the late Carrie Fischer as General Leia at a scene on a bridge of a ship (or some other room) show said location getting blown up (killing everyone inside obviously), then cut to reaction of our main characters witnessing the tragedy in disbelief.

It would be "all too easy" to do with minimal re-shooting and rewriting of the script.

If not then it is a big question on how Disney will put her in either CGI or other techniques, or recasting a new actor, or who knows. Anyway my prediction is that General Leia dies in Episode 8. Whether it is correct or not, well we will just have to see the movie now won't we?

I was unaware the monstrous, contractually sealed behemoth that is the new Star Wars trilogy, or any of its offshoots, needed saving.

And I'm saying that as someone who doesn't even like Star Wars...