It seems to me that the medium ships for medium points are lacking.

For large ships both sides have good ships. On the small bases you have lots of good ships from the flotilas to the glads to the mc30 lots of options for varying point costs.

But besides the Rebel Assault Frigate where are the good medium ships? The Rebels have the assault frigate and in my option it rocks... Good speed... Good manverablitly, good fire power, basically good all the way around for not a ton of points. I think in fact at worlds both lists had an assault frigate. But that is the only medium Base ship. For the empire you have the victory which is okay but turns like a barn. So with the manuveravility of most other ships they can avoid its fire power. Or they are bigger and hit harder back. So for the points I do not think it is worth it. The Interdictor is also meduim but a ton of points and very specialized in what does so unless you are building a fleet around it.not really worth to take.

With the next wave it seems that empire assault carrier is going to be medium Base and looks promising depending on the point cost. But the Rebels still only have the one.

So getting to the point of where are the medium Base ships that are that medium point cost 70 to 80 that I want to put in my lists?

Idk. The meta in our group sees VSDs in pretty competitive lists. Even an interdictor here and there.

Well,. considering the points cost of the Victory is right in your described limit - you're not going to get something better for the same points cost. Its going to be Weaker, or have fewer squadrons, or fewer shields... because if its going to be faster + turn better than a Victory, but otherwise be on par with a Victory ,its going ot be more expensive.

I mean, that's how the Balance of Points Costs works

I mean, the Assault Frigate is a good showing of that - it feels mostly on-par with a Victory, but its faster and weaker - but boom, 10 more points...

That's how I interpret what you're saying at least... We have small ships in the 40-60 category. We have Large Ships in the 90+ Category... Mediums are going to, of course, be a compromise between the two of those - and the mediums we have already show that... You'll be able to be good at one thing... But outside of that one thing, you're going to be horridly compromised until the end of the earth.

So in the light of more information - what do you want from your medium ship, on the Empire Side, comparing it to a Victory for roughly the same points.....

The Quasar isn't going to be "stronger", its meant to push tons of squadrons and get it power that way, ffs.

The vic has multiple issues: First its maneuverability, possible to be mitigated with Moffy J if Vics are the core, but dropped if you need Motti for small ships and Sloane for fighter loadouts. Second, its defense, Vic does ok vs small ships, vs Ackbar and ISDs, they get wiped out immediately with accuracied braces. After that, thirdly, I think it doesn't really put enough firepower out for its cost. Its ahrd to double arc, and its dependent on adding even more upgrades to get evven a modicum of dice manipulation. 5 pts for DTT, 1/3 of its reds, 4 for OE, but with its maneuverability rarely gets more than 1 or 2 black dice range attacks. Comparably to the ease of a flotilla with BCC driving squadrons.

They don't exist yet. There is only 2 medium imperial ships and 1 rebel medium ship so you don't have much to compare to. In the movies there are way more smallish ships than big ships anyway, so maybe they're trying to keep it real. Interdict or has 4 dice on 3 sides and 3 in the rear -compared to the earlier ships that's pretty good, I know it's missing some of the turbo laser upgrades, but it is sprecialized.

Gladiatior is not a medium base ship, but pairs with the MK2 perfectly, its a bit weaker but hits way more hard, same speed, same defense tokens, and can even work as a light carrier, something I never understood for a ship of that kind (they fixed it for the MC30). Is a very solid ship and well balanced for its fleet cost. Even if is not demolisher.

And where are all the streetwise Venators to fight the rising odds?

Isn't there a Star Destroyer under a fiery Screed?

Late at night I toss and I turn
And I dream of what I need

I actually think the assault frigate is coming back. High number of squadron activations, flight controllers and gallant haven.

Plus in a meta of weak activations, the one eyed Cracken frigate is king.

Having watched what Matt in our local group did at regionals and again to me on Sunday (hint hint check out the latest battle report) I think they are still out there and winning

2 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

I actually think the assault frigate is coming back. High number of squadron activations, flight controllers and gallant haven.

Plus in a meta of weak activations, the one eyed Cracken frigate is king.

I dont know when AF2 left really. My local meta is basically AF2 ONLY, either dodona gallant heaven carrier + yavaris and flotillas or 3 AF2 with ackbar. There is not much of a choice if you want a solid list besides MSU random lists.

30 minutes ago, xerpo said:

I dont know when AF2 left really. My local meta is basically AF2 ONLY, either dodona gallant heaven carrier + yavaris and flotillas or 3 AF2 with ackbar. There is not much of a choice if you want a solid list besides MSU random lists.

I would not talk about a meta. Actually you are the only one who plays those fleets. It is true that you are actually the most regular rebel player but this don't build a meta unless you were the meta.

We actually have 4 rebels players: you with your AF, another who loves mc80s, another who loves mc30s and a noob who doesn't have too much ships to choose yet and goes with a mc80 and an AF.

On the other hand it is true that I never see the AF going anywhere here. I think there are some places where rebels players try more things or, probably, where there are more rebels players.

Our local undefeated champion says A/Fs are underpowered for their size. Maybe he's speaking out of VSD envy, but it's hard to argue when the A/F is outperformed by many smaller ships (Yavaris for fighters, TRC-90s, MC30s). About the only advantage the A/F retains is being a high-fighter rating ship with a weapons team slot. A/Fs shone briefly during Ackbar's reign, but nowadays you can buy more activations and damage output with other ships.

I'm mostly an Imperial player with a critical eye. Blail listed out many of the flaws of the VSD, I feel it comes down to two: Speed and protection. The VSD can't run anything down (as everything runs away from it), and it can't deflect multiple small amounts of damage at long range, well. Suffering TRC shots for instance is either likely to exhaust the brace token or make the VSD deal with 2 damage at long range that it cannot deal with if it lacks Needa.

VSDs as carriers is a workaround to try forcing the engagement at or beyond (rhymer) long range, taking advantage of boosted comms, a high fighter rating, and Weapons Teams. Since they can't live long as gunships in today's MSU meta, this is what keeps them alive. And it's this role the Quasar Fire seems exactly suited to fill. However, QFs seem even more reluctant to be shot at than the VSD...

Interdictors are okay, I flew one a little while ago. Their high engineering value can keep the ship alive for objective game pursuits, and of course you get access to the experimental upgrades, but at four dice it's a little anemic in firepower compared to other ships. For about twenty points more you get a much more suitable combat ship in the ISD-I. You can get a discount and go down to a Victory.

Assault frigates are under powered as gunships.

Assault frigates are under powered as carriers.

But you cannot launch 3 red dice salvo AND 3 squadrons for cheaper.

And that is the key. They are not EFFICIENT activations, they are EFFECTIVE activations.

And to make the deal better. Effective activations which dont require last/first!

Thats what Im trying to say, the AF is so poilyvalent it works in any multitask fleet for a realtively cheap cost. From here you can go big or you can go MSU, both with their own weaknesses, thats why I find 3AF a real solid list, specially with ackbar.

I don't really agree with the Vic hate. I got trounced pretty handily just the other day. Granted I was 2 hits away from being it-trounced and the Defender swarm had something to do with it, but still. A Vic used effectively is a force to be reckoned with.

Yknow we should really talk about the big elephant in the room: No medium made it at all to the winners lists in ALL of the regionals data.

Assault Frigate = The ultimate generalist. It can do anything, but is not the best at any of them. So, it can be outclassed in a world of specialists unless that versatility is capitalized on.

VSD = Is actually a solid buy for the level of firepower for the points, especially the VSD I, but struggles to bring it to bear.

Interdictor = Dependent on its tricks to make the value out of it. Has okay firepower, but tends to be very expensive due to the upgrades. Can make its points back with the right objective set.

22 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Yknow we should really talk about the big elephant in the room: No medium made it at all to the winners lists in ALL of the regionals data.

But won worlds

1 minute ago, Ginkapo said:

But won worlds

I haven't even talked about the top4 data yet!

(Also which worlds, the physical one or the vassal one?) honestly its also weird to me that its not easily accessible what the winning lists from worlds and stuff are. I have no idea what won worlds actually, nor which "worlds" you're talking about.

1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

I haven't even talked about the top4 data yet!

(Also which worlds, the physical one or the vassal one?) honestly its also weird to me that its not easily accessible what the winning lists from worlds and stuff are. I have no idea what won worlds actually, nor which "worlds" you're talking about.

The one JJ won!

Well Ok, he wont both. So I'll be more specific, the physical worlds. Vassal tournaments are usually a good hint at the direction of future meta rather than the current meta as they generally a test bed.

2 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I haven't even talked about the top4 data yet!

(Also which worlds, the physical one or the vassal one?) honestly its also weird to me that its not easily accessible what the winning lists from worlds and stuff are. I have no idea what won worlds actually, nor which "worlds" you're talking about.

Both Worlds at FFG.

If you guys don't mind, what was the list...? What medium ship are you even talking about btw?

(Is it just me thats been under a rock, or is it actually not easily available on this forum what the worlds list is?)

..

Also a google search shows armada worlds in 2017 in May. ... what?

Just now, Blail Blerg said:

If you guys don't mind, what was the list...? What medium ship are you even talking about btw?

(Is it just me thats been under a rock, or is it actually not easily available on this forum what the worlds list is?)

The 1st worlds, before the point increase, was 3 AF, Garm and 8 A-wings. Not sure what upgrades, if any, were on it.

4 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

If you guys don't mind, what was the list...? What medium ship are you even talking about btw?

(Is it just me thats been under a rock, or is it actually not easily available on this forum what the worlds list is?)

..

Also a google search shows armada worlds in 2017 in May. ... what?

To be honest, I'm surprised you didn't know - but then, I guess if you're not doing the Organising, you've got not much reason to follow FFG Organise Play

They separated the Worlds championships for the games systems... Netrunner and the other Card Games remain in November as per usual.

However, all of the Star Wars games are now held in May... The fact we didn't have Store Champs and went straight into Regionals after Worlds in November 2016 was part and parcel of the Teething period for that... For now - May the 4th, Star Wars Day, is actually Armada World Championships Days

This was announced... I want to say March last year? I'd have to look back in my pile of emails to confirm, but its not "new information" for people...

Basically, for the 2017 Year Going Forward:

Store Championships open the Week after Worlds in May (in this case, Store champs open May 13th).

Stores have a 3-4 month Period with which to run Store Championships.

Then Regionals will be decided between September and December, basically...

National Championships are now "Floating" in time. They can be held at just about any Major Con that they want. This is supplimented with the North American Championships (at GenCon), and Elvesdium (?) running the European Championships in August.

@Blail Blerg are you there?