I prefer the aesthetic of the human faction and that's what I'm leaning towards collecting but I worry that the undead units just end up with better stuff.

Blight tokens, Mortal Strikes on surges, and Steadfast seem to be much better than what the humans get. Being able to spend double surges on Inspiration tokens doesn't seem to be on the same level. I suppose those tokens probably get a lot stronger when your units are carrying upgrades that become exhausted on use.

What am I missing about the humans? Assuming that humanss get archers and undead get cavalry at some point, what is it that the humans bring to the table? What's their edge?

Well those inspirations get rid of blight tokens and in turn the mortal strike rate.

Avid inspiration, fast, quick hits (add those Lance Corporal boys!) and let's not mention Rune Golems embedded into a mass of Infantry ablative health

What scale of game have you played with so far?

Have you used the combos that become available with upgrades, like Initiative 3 rally + armor to refresh shield wall and be effectively armor 3 against incoming attacks?

Have you looked down the line for things like Moment of Inspiration with cav for 5-die flank charges?

Waiqar already have their cavalry. They're called Carrion Lancers.

49 minutes ago, Conscientious Objector said:

Waiqar already have their cavalry. They're called Carrion Lancers.

Carrion Lancers are siege units. Not cavalry. Waiqar will get their cavalry at some point maybe bone horrors like the new incoming hero.

15 minutes ago, Hijodecain said:

Carrion Lancers are siege units. Not cavalry. Waiqar will get their cavalry at some point maybe bone horrors like the new incoming hero.

And eventually, Barghests and Death Knights.

if i recall from the human infantry command expansion, i believe humans can turn any number of inspiration tokens into mortal strikes with the right upgrade.

1 hour ago, Hijodecain said:

Carrion Lancers are siege units. Not cavalry. Waiqar will get their cavalry at some point maybe bone horrors like the new incoming hero.

If it has a speed 4 charge like a Cavalry unit, a guy riding a mount like a cavalry unit, 3 attack dice like a cavalry unit, and is described as " one of the fastest units in Waiqar’s armies," like a cavalry unit might, then it's probably a cavalry unit. It's monstrous cavalry, but putting it in the same box as the golem or the ents Scions is somewhat misleading.

It's entirely possible that we'll get multiple units for Waiqar which fill the "fast, hard-hitting unit" role, but I rather expect that they'll flesh out the elves and the Uthuk Yllan well before that.

On a more general level, trying to judge what will be competitive and efficient in the year or two when we get a full "round two" for the core factions is an exercise in futility.

2 minutes ago, Conscientious Objector said:

If it has a speed 4 charge like a Cavalry unit, a guy riding a mount like a cavalry unit, 3 attack dice like a cavalry unit, and is described as " one of the fastest units in Waiqar’s armies," like a cavalry unit might, then it's probably a cavalry unit. It's monstrous cavalry, but putting it in the same box as the golem or the ents Scions is somewhat misleading.

It's not misleading at all. There are three classes of units: infantry, cavalry, and siege. Each of these is represented by a different icon. Infantry have a helmet icon, cavalry have a horse-head icon, and siege have a broken-castle icon. You can find these icons on page 4 of the learn-to-play guide. Certain upgrades also bear these icons, meaning you can only equip those upgrades to units that have that upgrade on their unit cards. These aren't arbitrary descriptive terms, these are game terms.

10 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

There are three classes of units: infantry, cavalry, and siege.

I agree that they are categorically the same.

I would encourage all of my opponents to play their Carrion Lancers as though they were Rune Golems.

The human units have faster attacks than the undead ones and that does count for a lot. The cavalry can even get extra defense off of its 3-init attack.

Also the carrion lancer is quite fast, though I think people tend to focus too much on getting it mixed in with the rune golem which wastes it.

The strength of the Daqan is in their command dials... lower initiative orders, greater variety of modifiers, more + Defense, etc.

Thematically, humans have great access to rune weapons and magic, they're tactically flexible in the setting, have nonhuman heroes and adventures in their employees, roc riders, and are generally the best at defense.

I've either played or witnessed four games so far, and the Humans haven't lost a game yet, for what it's worth. The Undead often struggle to connect damage against them or are eliminated before they can attack by lower initiative. The disappointing Regenerate ability doesn't much help, either. It seems to be in place to improve efficiency, but it almost never triggers.

I think that humans are just easy to play, they need just to take advantage of their better command choices and skills, and have the cavalry to partially neutralize the archers.

Rune golems are quite "unkilly" but extremly tough, so they have a great tactical rol.

The fact is that humans win most battels that I've seen.

I think too that undead are harder to play, but they have a big amount of powerful combos thanks to skills and surges.

I've not played yet but I think that the current forces have a certain unbalance favouring the daqan, but the previews for the expansion point to a quick rebalancing (deatkcaller+carrion lancers/reanimated achers sounds an enormous threat for those tough units such as cavalry or golems).

Thanks for this topic! This topic not only shows the strength of Daqan it also shows in a general way how import the initiative of commands and the combination of commands can be. This is not so obviously if you just read the rules.

I've played 2 and watched one game.

At 200, archers on the undead side turned the game. On the human side, the cavalry that did actually get a flank attack wiped out a significanlty more expensive unit of reanimates. They just had to watch it happen because the spearman unit that was tarpitting the undead kept getting improved defense before the reanimates attacked.

It seems like combined arms is super critical. With the learning curve involved with command dials, it seems undead combined arms (archers/blight) is simpler to apply than human (cavalry, inspiration).

I would have actually asked the same question about undead. I have yet to see them actually win a game. The command dials of the humans allow them to dictate the game, which is huge. When you add in the defense buffs they have, most of the mechanics the undead rely on are underwhelming.

3 hours ago, DaShamrockKid said:

I would have actually asked the same question about undead. I have yet to see them actually win a game. The command dials of the humans allow them to dictate the game, which is huge. When you add in the defense buffs they have, most of the mechanics the undead rely on are underwhelming.

I will start a topic for you ^_~