This list looks pretty average to me, as long as someone else than Heaver or killerbeardhawk flies it.

3 hours ago, DXCrazytrain said:

What is Old Para's 'Asajj 2 torp boats' list?

He tried some variations out, but I think this version is the one he is taking to Worlds:

Asajj/mindlink/Latts 40 pts

Contracted Scout/mindlink/ProtonTorps/Boba/GuidanceChips 31 pts

Contracted Scout/mindlink/PlasmaTorps/GuidanceChips 29 pts

Problem with most ordnance lists is that ignoring Biggs doesn't do you much good. Stresshog moves, then you move; you end up out of range of Biggs and Miranda, so you target lock the stresshog; then Biggs and Miranda move into range. You might be able to kill Stressy, but even that can be iffy, considering that most lists are two U-Boats and something without ordnance; but even then, you're not killing Miranda, who's the main threat.

If you're looking for a list that can beat this one, I would recommend Dengar and Bossk, both with munitions, Bossk with VI. As with all things, it's easier said than done, but you move after Miranda, meaning you can pick up target locks on her and nuke her round one. After that, it's child's play.

2 hours ago, Schu81 said:

This list looks pretty average to me, as long as someone else than Heaver or killerbeardhawk flies it.

It is pretty average, but it's got strong matchups against most everything else in the meta. It's got stress and bombs to deal with Attani, stress completely locks down bombing K-Wings. Kanan Biggs is a pretty average matchup, but at least it's not a bad matchup.

Like many of PHeaver's lists, it's a toolbox list that leverages the player's experience, skill, and clever meta calls, rather than relying on strong card combos to win the day.

Generally these toolbox lists don't have too many bad matchups, and the few they do will be very specific lists unlikely to be fielded. For this particular list, the one glaring weakness I see is to heavier control elements.

Like many rebel lists, this one is particularly weak to TIE/Ds, which will easily control and shred all that agility 1-2. When I was running my double TIE/D list, this was the match-up I wanted to see, and it can quite easily be a 100-0 wipe.

I imagine the Asajj + 2x TLT-Thugs would be pretty good against this list too (Asajj was my bane when I was playing my K-wing Bomber list). Asajj can stress Miranda and limit her ability to SLAM, and the Shadowcaster Title can be used to deny shots and make the TLTs even more deadly.

3 hours ago, CRCL said:

Like many of PHeaver's lists, it's a toolbox list that leverages the player's experience, skill, and clever meta calls, rather than relying on strong card combos to win the day.

Generally these toolbox lists don't have too many bad matchups, and the few they do will be very specific lists unlikely to be fielded. For this particular list, the one glaring weakness I see is to heavier control elements.

Like many rebel lists, this one is particularly weak to TIE/Ds, which will easily control and shred all that agility 1-2. When I was running my double TIE/D list, this was the match-up I wanted to see, and it can quite easily be a 100-0 wipe.

I imagine the Asajj + 2x TLT-Thugs would be pretty good against this list too (Asajj was my bane when I was playing my K-wing Bomber list). Asajj can stress Miranda and limit her ability to SLAM, and the Shadowcaster Title can be used to deny shots and make the TLTs even more deadly.

The funny thing is that Paul Heaver flew exactly Asajj plus two TLT-Thugs at Worlds last year.

On 4/15/2017 at 4:07 PM, Jesse ROE Games said:

Swarms can beat anything if flown correctly. They don't top the meta because it takes extreme amounts of concentration, if you screw up you loose.

The big problem with Swarms at the moment is that 2 red dice struggle to push through any damage on most of the tankier lists that people fly at the moment. Defenders will just eat them for breakfast and heavy hitters like Ghost or Dash can potentially delete a tie per turn decent firing.

On 4/15/2017 at 4:07 PM, Jesse ROE Games said:

Swarms can beat anything if flown correctly. They don't top the meta because it takes extreme amounts of concentration, if you screw up you loose.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Ok.

16 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

The big problem with Swarms at the moment is that 2 red dice struggle to push through any damage on most of the tankier lists that people fly at the moment. Defenders will just eat them for breakfast and heavy hitters like Ghost or Dash can potentially delete a tie per turn decent firing.

To be precise swarms can push damage through the defenders'... well... defence thanks to the sheer number of attacks, as long as they can concentrate fire. They're in serious trouble if they can no longer do it however and it does happen sooner or later. Either because the flow of the battle makes it impossible to maintain a coherent formation or because they just die. Since 6 HP defenders take some time to kill, it's quite hard to overpower them before the swarm loses it's critical mass and can no longer seriously threaten them.

7 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

To be precise swarms can push damage through the defenders'... well... defence thanks to the sheer number of attacks, as long as they can concentrate fire. They're in serious trouble if they can no longer do it however and it does happen sooner or later. Either because of the flow of the battle makes it impossible to maintain a coherent formation or because they just die. Since 6 HP defenders take some time to kill, it's quite hard to overpower them before the swarm loses it's critical mass and can no longer seriously threaten them.

"Critical mass" ... love the term for swarms here!

Since swarms were good a few things have happened:

• Your TIEs die faster so your critical mass is eroded more rapidly
• Opponents have got tougher, so your critical mass needs to stick around longer

Neither of these things are helpful.

Nothing beat the P. Heaver :-)

11 hours ago, Ailowynn said:

Problem with most ordnance lists is that ignoring Biggs doesn't do you much good. Stresshog moves, then you move; you end up out of range of Biggs and Miranda, so you target lock the stresshog; then Biggs and Miranda move into range. You might be able to kill Stressy, but even that can be iffy, considering that most lists are two U-Boats and something without ordnance; but even then, you're not killing Miranda, who's the main threat.

4 x Tie Bombers could work. Go for 2 Gama Vets w/ VI and 2 Scimitar w/ LRS. That puts two with Guidance Chips at PS 7 and 2 with LRS that don't matter.

6 Spice Runners. Season the last 4 points to taste.

Even if you lose (and you will), you can at least lose in the most dignified, honorable way in X-Wing.

The following are pretty heavy counters to Paul's Naboo List:

1) Alpha (Usually Scum Alpha)

2) Boba Scouts (hilariously bad for most rebel lists). This includes triple scouts and Rau Boats.

Both of those are common.

Are those *unwinnable* for the rebel list? Absolutely not? But I'd put the odds at 40% or less, on average. The alpha just wipes things off the board, and a boba scout and ignore biggs to remove Miranda's TLT (or sabine, but probably TLT)

6 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

The following are pretty heavy counters to Paul's Naboo List:

1) Alpha (Usually Scum Alpha)

2) Boba Scouts (hilariously bad for most rebel lists). This includes triple scouts and Rau Boats.

Both of those are common.

Are those *unwinnable* for the rebel list? Absolutely not? But I'd put the odds at 40% or less, on average. The alpha just wipes things off the board, and a boba scout and ignore biggs to remove Miranda's TLT (or sabine, but probably TLT)

Further - do you know what dominated the top Vassal league this season (The one that Paul is in)? Rau Boats (Fenn Rau + 2 torpedo boats, all with mindlink).

Two people went 7-1 in his league with it.

8 hours ago, CRCL said:

Like many rebel lists, this one is particularly weak to TIE/Ds, which will easily control and shred all that agility 1-2. When I was running my double TIE/D list, this was the match-up I wanted to see, and it can quite easily be a 100-0 wipe.

I imagine the Asajj + 2x TLT-Thugs would be pretty good against this list too (Asajj was my bane when I was playing my K-wing Bomber list). Asajj can stress Miranda and limit her ability to SLAM, and the Shadowcaster Title can be used to deny shots and make the TLTs even more deadly.

These two lists look good to me as well, and it is quite interesting the latter is Paul's '16 list. I really think, as most players, focusing on Miranda's death is easily the key.

17 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

4 x Tie Bombers could work. Go for 2 Gama Vets w/ VI and 2 Scimitar w/ LRS. That puts two with Guidance Chips at PS 7 and 2 with LRS that don't matter.

I knew @heychadwick would push the TIE Bombers which brings thematic beauty to the mat, helping to dispel the weird oddity that is the K-Wing. For this match-up, TIE Bombers would be the Bomb, I'm just sure there are so many meta lists that could really counter your Bomber Squad. But, I have had lots of previous good fortune with a list like this, I dig slipping in two Bombers with Proton Torpedos (4) and Ion Pulse Missiles (3) in lieu of having all four have Homing Missiles (5) and Extra Munitions (2); Miranda HATES Ion Pulse Missiles. If --and this is a big IF-- you set up the Kill box with LRS and hit her with an Ion Pulse Missile, then the Homer squad follows, it can take you to easy street.

But honestly, FennBoats would be sweet too, haha!

2 hours ago, heychadwick said:

4 x Tie Bombers could work. Go for 2 Gama Vets w/ VI and 2 Scimitar w/ LRS. That puts two with Guidance Chips at PS 7 and 2 with LRS that don't matter.

I've been entertaining the idea of front loading alpha with ace/"ace" ships, or flying double regen + Biggs but stripping down the regen ships in order to fit 2-3 torpedoes into the list. You sacrifice some durability to do this, but you gain the ability to kill something of theirs early, which may dramatically increase your durability even more.

You could fly a 44 point TIE/D Vessery with Expertise, Tractor Beam, Cluster Missiles, Guidance Chips. Or a 39 point Quickdraw with FCS, Expertise, Cluster Missiles, Guidance Chips. Or both. Yeah, you'd only have those 2 ships+ a PS 1 Striker, but your opponent may only have Biggs and the Stresshog left lol.

Your bomber idea isn't a bad one either. Ever since the palp nerf, there has been a 29 point slot in a lot of squads open for a Bomber or even a Punisher. I wouldn't fly 4 of them, but 2 kitted out ones + Whisper would be sweet too.

Ion Torpedoes would be good against the list too. A bit of a pricey option and aren't the best for strictly doing damage, but if you have the points maybe you splash one or two into your list.

18 hours ago, killerbeardhawk said:

I'll take that as a compliment, as I used the same list to win a 300+ system open with it.

While in a vacuum, those list are strong against Bigg Miranda's House. In play it will still come down to piloting. Knowing about the options Miranda has to bomb and making good engagements goes alot farther than the list your flying.

While Duncan ends up in a bombing trap, he plays this game so well, even with a hard match up. Take notes from him.

I think this is one of the best games of xing streammed in some time. Both player show a deep understanding of the game. Unfortunatly Duncan's list had a very strong counter on bombs and it shows in the end.

I'm sending this one to my friends who are learning.

Try this list out:

Stridan TL's x 2 and passes a TL off to a Bomber with system officer. He then has 2 TL's on 2 different targets. Pick Miranda as your first target and the stressbot as your second. Bombers pick on Miranda if she stays around or go after the stressbot. Use A Score To Settle on Miranda. She gets it but it is wasted on the TLT shots so you get a free crit on her with ordnance. Shoot Cluster/Plasma G.V. first to strip shields and then the Plasma from G.V. with ASTS to drop in a crit. Then follow up with a Shot from Stridan if Miranda tried to run or take a shot on Biggs to work him down. Stridan still works with FCS as he can also stress ships. If Biggs gets hit and uses R4D6 he'll get stress and Stressbot always gets stress so that leaves Miranda if she gets too close. Suddenly that 3 SLAM action isn't overly available and limited to only greens. Bombers have all range bands covered.

Could be good against other lists. It should hit hard enough.

"Major Score"

19 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Since swarms were good a few things have happened:

• Your TIEs die faster so your critical mass is eroded more rapidly
• Opponents have got tougher, so your critical mass needs to stick around longer

Neither of these things are helpful.

That's a great way to put it.

Blocking has also become less relevant, with cards like Mindlink, Expertise, FCS, Predator, K4 Security Droid, Vessery's pilot ability, Rey crew, Rey Pilot, x7 before the nerf, etc.

QuickDraw with Expertise and FCS is a meta staple right now. If she bumps into a ship, that's one less shot she's taking.

Are there any decent Imperial meta lists that can take on Paul's list? Stress + bombs is really scary for most Imp ships.

8 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

Are there any decent Imperial meta lists that can take on Paul's list? Stress + bombs is really scary for most Imp ships.

Pattiswarm (Howlrunner + three Black Squadrons with Crackshot, three Academies) doesn't look hopeless. 4 Crackshots can drop Biggs pretty quickly and the high blocking potential keeps bombs and SLAM in check. You aren't likely to lose more than one TIE in the first round of shooting here unlike agaonst many other popular lists.

Ion's are the bane of this list. One y-wing with an ion cannon can stop miranda cold. Also Ion's on a ghost do the job quite well. Tie D's with Twin Ions. Sometimes a Syck with Ion cannon, can be very cheap and very effective.

I always add ion torps to one of my ships, just in case. Yes it's a lot of points, but it stops her cold.

41 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:

Ion's are the bane of this list. One y-wing with an ion cannon can stop miranda cold. Also Ion's on a ghost do the job quite well. Tie D's with Twin Ions. Sometimes a Syck with Ion cannon, can be very cheap and very effective.

I always add ion torps to one of my ships, just in case. Yes it's a lot of points, but it stops her cold.

True... but you have to attack Biggs first...