I can see what you mean, I just think you start to complicate things when you start to introduce Light Side and Dark Side, particularly when it comes to the design of cards and the end results. Plus as you say the Empire would end up with the majority of the ships due to the connection to the Republic, but that only complicates matters when you put the Republic on the 'light side'. I don't think you'll ever get people to agree where the different factions belong. It's very simple with the TFA incarnations of their respective groups, but a bit harder with the prequels because they sort of switch sides.

If the Republic are part of the 'light side' then what about the fact the Empire who are 'dark side' should also have access to those ships? That is a very valid point regardless of the situation. This is why I think they need to cherry pick ships and bring them into the GCW era but permit them to introduce CW era pilots.

I mean, in my opinion, the Vulture Droids and some other CIS ships should go in Scum. Same with the V-Wing as it has been established the pirate groups have used those ships during the GCW era.

Actually bringing the Republic and the CIS into the game fully might be a bridge too far for some players, especially when we consider our friend Turbo. The way to please the majority amount of people is to meet them halfway and 'modernize' the prequel ships within the GCW era a bit like how the ARC-170 for the Rebels work. This would please both groups by allowing the prequel fans to have their ships, while not distressing the prequel haters too much. It worked with the ARC-170, why break with that design ethos?

7 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Here's a crazy idea. Let the ships be made, and then let the PILOTS be Separatists, Republic, Rebels, Imperials, Scum, First Order and/or Resistance. Mix them all in the same blister pack and let the player sort them out.

The problem I see arising from this is that different ships need to be balanced differently based on the faction they are a part of. What might give the Empire a nice boost might become a monster in the hands of Mindlinked Scum. I don't think people would have had as big of a bee in their bonnet if x7 and Palp hadn't been in the same faction.

I feel it adds more problems than it solves.

12 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

The problem I see arising from this is that different ships need to be balanced differently based on the faction they are a part of. What might give the Empire a nice boost might become a monster in the hands of Mindlinked Scum. I don't think people would have had as big of a bee in their bonnet if x7 and Palp hadn't been in the same faction.

I feel it adds more problems than it solves.

Well. . .it adds an extra layer of difficulty. It's not an absolute contraindication however. For example, for those that want the N-1 for the Rebels, you could still toss in cards for Anakin, and other uniques that are Republic pilots. I mean, I wasn't saying that every ship would feature pilots from every faction, just that "how do we fold CiS and Republic into existing factions" need not be an issue. Make the ship, and give it 6-8 pilots; some Prequel and some Galactic Civil War.

Over time, the Republic and CiS could eventually become their own factions, just like FO and Resistance could. Plus, over time, players could decide in casual play "tonight is Clone Wars night" or "tonight is OT night". And for those who really don't care, Anakin can shoot down Darth Vader and everyone can laugh at the irony.

11 minutes ago, Ebak said:

I can see what you mean, I just think you start to complicate things when you start to introduce Light Side and Dark Side, particularly when it comes to the design of cards and the end results. Plus as you say the Empire would end up with the majority of the ships due to the connection to the Republic, but that only complicates matters when you put the Republic on the 'light side'. I don't think you'll ever get people to agree where the different factions belong. It's very simple with the TFA incarnations of their respective groups, but a bit harder with the prequels because they sort of switch sides.

If the Republic are part of the 'light side' then what about the fact the Empire who are 'dark side' should also have access to those ships? That is a very valid point regardless of the situation. This is why I think they need to cherry pick ships and bring them into the GCW era but permit them to introduce CW era pilots.

I mean, in my opinion, the Vulture Droids and some other CIS ships should go in Scum. Same with the V-Wing as it has been established the pirate groups have used those ships during the GCW era.

Actually bringing the Republic and the CIS into the game fully might be a bridge too far for some players, especially when we consider our friend Turbo. The way to please the majority amount of people is to meet them halfway and 'modernize' the prequel ships within the GCW era a bit like how the ARC-170 for the Rebels work. This would please both groups by allowing the prequel fans to have their ships, while not distressing the prequel haters too much. It worked with the ARC-170, why break with that design ethos?

You are right about people not agreeing, but that would still be the case of sticking CW ships in some factions, but not others. At least with the faction redefinition, there are clearly defined rules. Love 'em or hate 'em, rules at least keep things clear.

this also raises the point that technically, all factions should have some sort of access to all ships. We have the precedence of the Rebel TIE. In the Rebels show, they use also use a TAP, a TIE Bomber, and a Sentinel Class landing craft. But allowing all factions to use all the ships leads to anarchy. Clearly defined lines are necessarily for balance and clarity. There will be some stepped on toes in the process, but there is no way around that.

I don't want it to seem that I'm painting this as the only way to proceed, because it isn't. I do think it is the simplest as it provides clear cut guidelines without shutting down the possibility of the V-Wing with OT era pilots being introduced to the Empire. I agree that flooding the market with prequel era ships isn't a good idea, but if they exist in subfactions, you don't have to push out a ton of them at once. Drip feeding a prequel ship one a wave or even less than that would still work because you could still run Republic Ships with Rebels, and so on.

You make valid points, but I still think this method of faction definition is the easier and further reaching solution.

7 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well. . .it adds an extra layer of difficulty. It's not an absolute contraindication however. For example, for those that want the N-1 for the Rebels, you could still toss in cards for Anakin, and other uniques that are Republic pilots. I mean, I wasn't saying that every ship would feature pilots from every faction, just that "how do we fold CiS and Republic into existing factions" need not be an issue. Make the ship, and give it 6-8 pilots; some Prequel and some Galactic Civil War.

Over time, the Republic and CiS could eventually become their own factions, just like FO and Resistance could. Plus, over time, players could decide in casual play "tonight is Clone Wars night" or "tonight is OT night". And for those who really don't care, Anakin can shoot down Darth Vader and everyone can laugh at the irony.

That is fair. I took your suggestion to an extreme end you did not intend. My apologies.

That might work. I do not think splitting off subfactions is a good idea or necessary, but I might be alone on that.

4 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

That is fair. I took your suggestion to an extreme end you did not intend. My apologies.

That might work. I do not think splitting off subfactions is a good idea or necessary , but I might be alone on that.

No worries. Right now, I think this game is beginning to struggle with creative depth. I would agree with Lobokai that extra factions would add diversity to the game, and adding the Clone Wars as a play option would bring back the "Star Warsy" to the game.

8 hours ago, Turbo Toker said:

The most recent Star Wars renaissance has been mainly OT and Sequel based and I think that's for good reason. That's the part of Star Wars most people like. Once you start getting into the prequels, you start catering to the hardcore, nerdy Wookiepedia side of Star Wars fandom who knows the name of the green Jedi with head tentacles from Episode 2 off the top of his head.

......

What will happen is that FFG will see that the obsessive Trekkie side of the Star Wars fanbase wants a bunch of prequel ships. They'll comply, get 2 waves in, and then the game will die.

Never met a prequel fan in my entire life who could remotely try to out-nerd an OT purist

*Edit - also, I've never met a prequel fan who actually disliked/hated the OT. But the other way round...?

6 hours ago, DragonDante said:

Never met a prequel fan in my entire life who could remotely try to out-nerd an OT purist

*Edit - also, I've never met a prequel fan who actually disliked/hated the OT. But the other way round...?

That's because the OT are better movies than the Prequels. Alien and Aliens are better movies than Alien 3 or Resurrection. They have Alien in the title, but that doesn't mean they should count.

Same with the prequels.

I'm on the fence about which film I like more: V or III. But in terms of cinematic quality, III is unrivaled in Star Wars. It's just the best film.

The two trilogies can't really be compared. I and III were excellent films, II was lacking but remains a favourite of mine. The OT had VI as its weakest film; it relies too much on specific scenes to grab the audience rather than the whole. I'm too biased towards V to say something reliable about its quality, which kind of suggests that my rose-colored glasses might hide a flaw or two.

7 hours ago, DragonDante said:

Never met a prequel fan in my entire life who could remotely try to out-nerd an OT purist

*Edit - also, I've never met a prequel fan who actually disliked/hated the OT. But the other way round...?

I have. The dudes I went to school with are obsessed with Clone Wars and ToR era stuff and of the opinion that the OT is boring and TFA didn't have enough "kewl lightsabor battlez" (accurate translation). And that AotC is the best of the Star Wars movies. They are out there and I wouldn't suspect them to be on their own with that.

Anyhow, I would like to have prequel ships included the same way the ARC has been. Scum getting some droid fighters (and a buzz-droid illicit!) Offers some great opportunities for unique ships, like having a large base group of three Vultures that gradually lose effectiveness with losing hitpoints. The empire can get its own Astromech upgrades for V-Wings and Vaders black ETA-2. And rebels can get the spaceworthy LAAT variant along with some pilots in the other expansions.

2 hours ago, Turbo Toker said:

That's because the OT are better movies than the Prequels. Alien and Aliens are better movies than Alien 3 or Resurrection. They have Alien in the title, but that doesn't mean they should count.

Same with the prequels.

Darkstar was the best Alien film

The way I see it is the Prequels spun off The Clone Wars animated show which ended up adding a lot of interesting lore to the Star Wars Universe. I'm not willing to write off that entire era due to a few mediocre feature films.

2 hours ago, Verlaine said:

I'm on the fence about which film I like more: V or III. But in terms of cinematic quality, III is unrivaled in Star Wars. It's just the best film.

The two trilogies can't really be compared. I and III were excellent films, II was lacking but remains a favourite of mine. The OT had VI as its weakest film; it relies too much on specific scenes to grab the audience rather than the whole. I'm too biased towards V to say something reliable about its quality, which kind of suggests that my rose-colored glasses might hide a flaw or two.

ESB has been my long time favorite because of many many reasons, the first of which is the entire Dagobah sequence and Yoda's portrayal and his reflections on the Force. Now I have a new appreciation for ANH as the love letter 20th century cinema that it is, as well as this film being the most complete and the perfect intro to the saga.

Rotj was good but ultimately a dissapoint me to when I was seven, and it hasn't gotten better. Vader's funeral pyre is still haunting, but Jabba's palace silliness, Endor silliness (sudden family revalations) and such just drag it down so much.

red letter media petty much sum up my feelings for the prequels.

51 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

red letter media petty much sum up my feelings for the prequels.

Even if I set aside personal feelings (I love all SW films), it's hard to deny that Revenge of the Sith is a monumental effort.

17 minutes ago, Verlaine said:

Even if I set aside personal feelings (I love all SW films), it's hard to deny that Revenge of the Sith is a monumental effort.

Ruined by showing every surviving character shoe horned into place for their appearances in ANH. I would say RotS is about as good as ROTJ. It had some great scenes but I could have gone without Sheev and Yoda playing frisbee in the senate, or the ONE DUEL i had been waiting to see since 1977 end up being an over long bout of silliness and cgi that came down to 'having the higher ground'.

NOOOOOOOOOooooooo......

Episode 3 has some pretty good scenes in it. Padme telling Anakin about her pregnancy (these two are capable of displaying actual emotions? Shocker.), the tragedy of Darth Plagueis, the Order 66 montage. Though the last one becomes vastly stronger when you are familiar with the characters through TCW.

1 minute ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Episode 3 has some pretty good scenes in it. Padme telling Anakin about her pregnancy (these two are capable of displaying actual emotions? Shocker.), the tragedy of Darth Plagueis, the Order 66 montage. Though the last one becomes vastly stronger when you are familiar with the characters through TCW.

Oh man, the tragedy of Order 66 is heightened after you've seen the relationships between Jedi and Clones in TCW. There were friendships, respect, and sacrifices for each other. Then Order 66 came down...

5 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Oh man, the tragedy of Order 66 is heightened after you've seen the relationships between Jedi and Clones in TCW. There were friendships, respect, and sacrifices for each other. Then Order 66 came down...

Yeah, I've recently started TCW and more of the characters in Episode II and III make sense now, like the conversations between Commander Cody and Obi-Wan. It does make Ep III have more weight.