1 minute ago, SabineKey said:

Proving to you other people's opinions matter as well as yours? Worth it.

But what about the EU negated your enjoyment of the OT? You seem perfectly willing to ignore what you don't like, so why not the EU? And if other people enjoy the EU, what makes what you like about Star Wars more important then what others like about Star Wars?

Nothing really. I haven't read much of the old EU. Most of the bad Star Wars content came out around the same time, so it's easy to lump it together.

To be fair, what I like about Star Wars are the 5 good movies that count. That does count as higher on the Star Wars scale than Jar Jar Binks and Yuzhan Vong.

Most of what I hate about bad Star Wars content is the prequels and special editions. Not the EU. I don't disagree agree with you, nothing in the EU detracts from Star Wars for me. I'm just trying to help you understand why it could be easily lumped in with other Star Wars hate-ables and why Disney saw fit to wipe the slate clean of the EU and have new Star Wars content largely ignore prequels.

I perceive the prequels and especially the special editions as blotting out good Star Wars content. The EU doesn't bother me.

1 hour ago, BlodVargarna said:

The narrative that some EU fans seem to hold to that they were somehow keepers of the flame during the dark times between ROTJ and TPM, whithout whom the Star Wars universe would have faded to obscurity is poppycock.

That Disney owes them something because they read comic books and played video games is as someone here earlier posted self indulgent BS.

Did the EU matter in the transaction between Disney and Lucasfilm? I think not much if at all. Disney would still have bought the IP whether or not there was the Thrawn trilogy or the Rogue Squadron pulp or yes even Skippy the Jedi Robot.

As a fan of Star Wars for over 40 years, I don't owe the EU, or its fandom a daggum* thing.

And as I have shown with my examples of EU stuff coming back and the enthusiasm Disney has been showing building their own, I disagree.

1 hour ago, Turbo Toker said:

Nothing really. I haven't read much of the old EU. Most of the bad Star Wars content came out around the same time, so it's easy to lump it together.

To be fair, what I like about Star Wars are the 5 good movies that count. That does count as higher on the Star Wars scale than Jar Jar Binks and Yuzhan Vong.

Most of what I hate about bad Star Wars content is the prequels and special editions. Not the EU. I don't disagree agree with you, nothing in the EU detracts from Star Wars for me. I'm just trying to help you understand why it could be easily lumped in with other Star Wars hate-ables and why Disney saw fit to wipe the slate clean of the EU and have new Star Wars content largely ignore prequels.

I perceive the prequels and especially the special editions as blotting out good Star Wars content. The EU doesn't bother me.

And that's okay for a personal view point and taste. When people start to promoting their opinion as the only legitimate one, that's when things go wrong.

12 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

And as I have shown with my examples of EU stuff coming back and the enthusiasm Disney has been showing building their own, I disagree.

You disagree that Disney or I don't owe EU fans anything? Or you disagree that EU was not significant to the calculus in Disney's acquisition of Lucasfilm IP? Or all of the above?

So in your estimation, do you think Disney would not have bought IP if not for Mara Jade or Admiral Thrawn?

2 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

Did I?

Maybe what I'm calling EU is different to what you're calling EU. At any rate, I'm sure the fan base of the EU was included in the price of the deal, I'm saying it was a very small percentage.

EU.... Small Percentage....

Ok, lets take starwars at the whole at the time Disney forcibly took over....

6 Movies - Thats it for the "Non Expanded Universe"

over a few dozen novels

clone wars cartoon

RPG titles

over a few dozen video games

comic series

Because Im lazy with math, lets say there are only 6 games, and 6 books and 6 RPG titles, without even including the rest of the cartoons, comics, etc.....

That alone already takes in effect 75% of the entire starwars universe...... but...according to you... "a small percent"

Keep living Egypt man, I hear the river is just great there.....

21 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

You disagree that Disney or I don't owe EU fans anything? Or you disagree that EU was not significant to the calculus in Disney's acquisition of Lucasfilm IP? Or all of the above?

So in your estimation, do you think Disney would not have bought IP if not for Mara Jade or Admiral Thrawn?

Good straw man, reducing the entire EU to two characters.

I disagree that the EU mattered so little to Disney, especially since they keep bring up parts of it, like I've outlined before. Disney doesn't owe fans of the EU things, and yet they are still drawing cues from them. Does that sound insignificant?

Finally, you don't owe the EU anything. But fans of the EU don't owe your opinions that say what they love is useless anything either.

12 minutes ago, Zeoinx said:

....over a few dozen novels...

....over a few dozen video games....

And that's not even close to how many games and books there are.

Just now, SabineKey said:

And that's not even close to how many games and books there are.

Oh i know, I wasn't about to go count everything, I have to dumb it all down for idiots who dont want to admit to the existance of things in the expanded universe, weather they like it or not.

I'll forgive the thrashing of (good) EU and even the burial of the TIE Avenger and Gunboat if Disney make Mark Hamil Emperor...

The Joker Emperor, forever tormenting his invisible bat friend.

1 hour ago, Zeoinx said:

EU.... Small Percentage....

Ok, lets take starwars at the whole at the time Disney forcibly took over....

6 Movies - Thats it for the "Non Expanded Universe"

over a few dozen novels

clone wars cartoon

RPG titles

over a few dozen video games

comic series

Because Im lazy with math, lets say there are only 6 games, and 6 books and 6 RPG titles, without even including the rest of the cartoons, comics, etc.....

That alone already takes in effect 75% of the entire starwars universe...... but...according to you... "a small percent"

Keep living Egypt man, I hear the river is just great there.....

But none of that extra content is worth anything remotely close to what the movies and all the merch relating to them is worth.

So there are thousands of pages of EU, so what? Each page of content is not equal to all the other pages.

I'm talking about $ value. Not mere existence in fans of the EU's head canon.

Disney, being a pretty smart corporation, good at providing content to consumers, looked at what the Star Wars franchise was worth. What I'm saying is all that EU content simply is not anywhere close in value to the original content.

The executives made this huge deal because it is worth a lot more money than what they paid Lucas (who voluntarily accepted the 4 billion dollars). The calculation of total VALUE of the EU (which at this point in the discussion probably needs a commonly accepted definition) whatever it may have been is a mere fraction of what the franchise (6 films plus associated spin offs and merchandise) is worth. Not to mention the vast potential for new content like Episodes 7-9, anthology films, and other spinoffs? Like I said before this deal was a figurative money factory.

Now are they cherry picking some of the elements of the EU (e.g. Thrawn) ? Yes because there's some good content to mine. If Thrawn had never been written, would Disney have paid nearly the same amount of $ to Lucas? Of course.

One comic book, 32 pages with ads, is written, penned and colored by less than a dozen people. Each comic usually part of a series and this may involve more people than just the ones working on any one single issue. A novel is written by one person (mostly) with editors and such doing some back end work, and someone is commissioned for a cover piece, larger page count but fewer people involved, and novel series do not last as long, generally, as comic series.

Television series involve dozens of people with many different jobs and produce many hours of content, and are generally available to wider audiences. There's usually one person in charge of the whole production (producer) and the director of directors are responsible for the 'vision' or cohesiveness of the show.

Movies are similar to TV but require massive amounts of crew and cast and years (if effects heavy) to produce. They are major events, so the content needs to be top notch. The films are also the most readily available content for audiences for SW. To many people SW is only the films because cartoon shows and comics books are 'kid stuff' and don't even register as 'SW' in their eyes. And dare I say most adults don't read novels on a regular basis.

there's your importance of content, the ratio of important, recognized content heavily favoring Films and secondly television. SW is he films. Without them all the other EU/Legends/Canon is forgotten on the Great Heap of history.

1 hour ago, BlodVargarna said:

But none of that extra content is worth anything remotely close to what the movies and all the merch relating to them is worth.

So there are thousands of pages of EU, so what? Each page of content is not equal to all the other pages.

I'm talking about $ value. Not mere existence in fans of the EU's head canon.

Disney, being a pretty smart corporation, good at providing content to consumers, looked at what the Star Wars franchise was worth. What I'm saying is all that EU content simply is not anywhere close in value to the original content.

The executives made this huge deal because it is worth a lot more money than what they paid Lucas (who voluntarily accepted the 4 billion dollars). The calculation of total VALUE of the EU (which at this point in the discussion probably needs a commonly accepted definition) whatever it may have been is a mere fraction of what the franchise (6 films plus associated spin offs and merchandise) is worth. Not to mention the vast potential for new content like Episodes 7-9, anthology films, and other spinoffs? Like I said before this deal was a figurative money factory.

Now are they cherry picking some of the elements of the EU (e.g. Thrawn) ? Yes because there's some good content to mine. If Thrawn had never been written, would Disney have paid nearly the same amount of $ to Lucas? Of course.

So you are saying EU material is adding value to Star Wars since they are mining it for good material. Glad to see you are coming around to my way of thinking.

24 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

So you are saying EU material is adding value to Star Wars since they are mining it for good material. Glad to see you are coming around to my way of thinking.

You are being obtuse.

8 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

You are being obtuse.

And you continue to miss the point.

I think it's reasonable to conclude that the EU played a minor role in Star Wars being as big as it is, or how much Disney paid to acquire Star Wars.

It's probably a such a tiny amount that it's effectively non-existent.

14 minutes ago, Turbo Toker said:

I think it's reasonable to conclude that the EU played a minor role in Star Wars being as big as it is, or how much Disney paid to acquire Star Wars.

It's probably a such a tiny amount that it's effectively non-existent.

Proof? I've provided examples, personal testimony, and data to show how the EU has provided value to Star Wars. Show me data that proves that the EU provided "non-existent" value.

6 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Proof? I've provided examples, personal testimony, and data to show how the EU has provided value to Star Wars. Show me data that proves that the EU provided "non-existent" value.

Monetize your assertions.

1 minute ago, BlodVargarna said:

Monetize your assertions.

Monetize yours. A book costs less to make than a movie, there for can get a higher return on investment on average. Plus, there are hundreds of books, video games, and comics.

This debate has reached its conclusion. Good day to you. You've won the internet. The EU was the candle in the darkness that kept the light of Star Wars burning through the evil times between OT and prequels. Disney Executives saw such value in the pulp paperbacks, comics, recycled plot lines of the video games with esoteric Star Wars characters and vehicles that they paid a premium over the established franchise that nearly every person on the planet could name a character from, and probably bought a figure of. I mean Mara Jade! She's probably worth a billion herself. Skippy the Jedi Driod, $500 million for sure.

I'm glad for you and others that you enjoyed the EU. But because it was worth something to you, doesn't make it worth much to the rest of the world.

Ask any human being on this planet to name a character from Star Wars... I'm certain they will name Mara Jade.

It happens with movies, books, music, you-name-it. Someone creates something for the love of that thing. The artist may be flawed, but he's creating something distinct and flavourful. It becomes popular enough to make money. Then a big corporation buys it, doesn't really understand what was appealing about it to begin with, and hires a bunch of henchmen to mass produce a version of it that's calculated to appeal to the broadest number of folks possible, thereby making it much like everything else.

George Lucas is an artist. His work is flawed, certainly. He needed people around him to tell him when some his ideas were flat out lame (a certain Gungan, midichlorians, Anakin's virgin birth, etc.). But he IS an artist! Art by committee, calculated to sell, can't compete with that.

22 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

This debate has reached its conclusion. Good day to you. You've won the internet. The EU was the candle in the darkness that kept the light of Star Wars burning through the evil times between OT and prequels. Disney Executives saw such value in the pulp paperbacks, comics, recycled plot lines of the video games with esoteric Star Wars characters and vehicles that they paid a premium over the established franchise that nearly every person on the planet could name a character from, and probably bought a figure of. I mean Mara Jade! She's probably worth a billion herself. Skippy the Jedi Driod, $500 million for sure.

I'm glad for you and others that you enjoyed the EU. But because it was worth something to you, doesn't make it worth much to the rest of the world.

Ask any human being on this planet to name a character from Star Wars... I'm certain they will name Mara Jade.

Its funny for all you saying the EU is worthless and bla bla, you sure seem to be putting a lot of worth to Mara Jade, who's only existence is penned in the EU in both Comics and Novels and Video games, but hmmm its strange, you just said before the EU is worthless. Weird, maybe you should get your argument straight before coming on these forums and arguing with intelligent people.

Without the EU, Starwars 6 movies would only be worth abut a quarter of its current worth. Boba Fett would just be some generic "bounty hunter" who got his ass kicked and screamed like a girl before falling into the Sarlacc pit, Storm Troopers would be laughably trained, who run at the first sign of a real threat and get owned by teddy bears, and Luke Skywalker...well he got lucky throughout the entire series of movies, he made due with minimal training, and only came out on top because he got lucky with his father, and Biggs didnt really care about Luke.

Any bigger plot, inner monolog, extra training, and other advancements are because of the EU, all those cool toys and merchandise wouldnt sell JUST on the movies alone, at least not for as long as they have been. EU keeps fans growin and most of all COMING BACK.

If starwars ended at "return of the jedi", and there was no EU at all, sure, it would be considered a good movie trilogy, but that would be it, the merch wouldnt be made past the 80s. And the overall value wouldnt be nearly what it is today. Another thing to consider is lets say your audience is 2 billion people, once those 2 billion buy the 3 movies thats it, you made your money, you wont make anymore. You think without a constant flow of NEW income starwars would be in a place that Disney even remotly WANTED to buy them?

Hell, I like starwars movies, but when you go into the novels and everything from it explodes it all into a heck of a lot more interesting and makes me WANT to spend more to keep exploring the universe that Lucas started, without it, me, and billions of other fans of the movie wouldnt have spent nearly anything on the merch. I alone prob donated a few 1000 dollars on EU content alone. How much did I spend on the movies? 60 dollars....

Here's some analysis of the deal by a financial journalist:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aswathdamodaran/2016/01/06/intergalactic-finance-how-much-is-the-star-wars-franchise-worth-to-disney/

2 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

Here's some analysis of the deal by a financial journalist:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aswathdamodaran/2016/01/06/intergalactic-finance-how-much-is-the-star-wars-franchise-worth-to-disney/

Oh, look! Games and books actually taking up about 20% of the pie. Hardly "non-existent". And what is making more than even the movies? Merchandising.

Just now, SabineKey said:

Oh, look! Games and books actually taking up about 20% of the pie. Hardly "non-existent". And what is making more than even the movies? Merchandising.

And what is most the Merchandising on, EU Content!!!

1 minute ago, Zeoinx said:

And what is most the Merchandising on, EU Content!!!

What?

Where's your Mara Jade action figure?

2 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

What?

Where's your Mara Jade action figure?

Better go soak in Egypt's river some more..... Wash that salt off you...