55 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

Those A-holes at NASA don't know a THING about space ships.

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

So we've all seen the trailer. What a disappointment.

Looks like TLJ:: ESB as TFA::ANH, and I found the "homage" aspect of TFA to be far too heavy-handed and stale.



But we've got:

Sandspeeders (instead of snowspeeders) racing across a sand desert (instead of an ice desert) to fight AT-ATs
Looks like we have Resistance ships possibly getting ready to run a blockade of the First Order's superior forces
Looks like Rey will be training with the exiled Yoda (I mean Luke) who is pessimistic about training her, probably
Looks very likely that Poe and Finn will get captured and tortured (Poe's Black One blowing up before he can get to it, and Finn in some torture-chair), just like Han was tortured on Cloud City, probably to draw Rey out (just like Luke)


Here's hoping it's a feign by LFL, but if Episode 8 is just ESB v2.0, I'm pretty much just sticking to the Non-Episodic Anthology Films, because TFA was junk as far as story and story-telling goes (though it looked beautiful).

I think the only worse prospect would be what you suggest, combined with the return of everybodies favorite Gungan (aka Darth Binks).

FYI did you know Gungans live to be 1000years old.... o please dont let it be so....

4 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I, OTOH, get excited every time I see an EU thing get recanonized again.

Seriously, how is it that a bunch of people on a SW-based gaming website have so much hate for the franchise??? Some parts are better than others, but it all part of my most beloved universe!!!

I do too. Believe me, I lost my **** when it was announced Thrawn was back. Nothing would make me happier than if someone like Revan or Mara Jade was announced back in canon during this celebration.

As for your last question...it comes from thinking one's opinion is the only valid one. Sadly, I see that more and more in the world today.

1 minute ago, Suhawk75 said:

Yes but your experience is not identical to others. Disney did not pay £4 billion without being sure that there was a huge fan base ready to be exploited. The size and enduring nature of the EU showed how much the brand still meant to an awful lot of people (even after the prequel trilogy)

Their experience isn't exactly atypical, either, though. I grew up as a huge Star Wars fan. I pre-ordered every volume of Zahn's original trilogy, and went forth and read every book... then I hit the Jedi Academy trilogy. And then I hit another Kevin J. Anderson special of "IG-88 was everywhere, he was even in the core computers of the Death Star!!!!" I gave up on the EU at that point. I was quite willing to give up the Thrawn Trilogy if it meant trashing the other stuff, too. By doing that, Disney has allowed themselves to pick and choose carefully what to bring back into canon, which means they can leave out things like the "Sun Crusher" - the starfighter that can make stars blow up!

Of course, once you get past us hardcore Star Wars fans, and out into the mass audience, most don't know a thing about anything that isn't in one of the movies. The EU was successful, but it's still only a minority of the total Star Wars audience that ever consumed very much (if any) of it.

14 minutes ago, Zeoinx said:

A question like that requires time, much deep thought and careful treading, instead of doing what Disney did and spanking over the OT storylines and ships to come up with a idea that prob took 2 minutes to come up with.

And to not acknowledge anything of the legends material is basicly slaping everyone who made starwars what it is today in the face.

But if you're saying everything about TFA is bad, then it should be quick and easy to come up with something better, right? Doesn't seem very fair to bash something without offering ways to (in your opinion) improve or change it. While still following the same restrictions those who made TFA were stuck with.

How would a lot of the post-RotJ legends canon material even have been made into a movie as quickly as TFA could have? The main cast of the OT were a heck of a lot older than they are in any of those books. Hire look-alike actors to play the part of Luke, Han, Leia, and Lando? You can bet the fanbase would have been a storm of anger/disappointment if that were the case. And how likely would it have been that any of them would have wanted to sign on to play the main roles in another Star Wars trilogy? Sounds like Harrison Ford was happy with TFA being his final Star Wars film.
And what do you cut out of those books to fit them in a movie-length timeframe? Can the Thrawn Trilogy or New Jedi Order series be trimmed down to three two and a half hour movies without losing anything of importance. Maybe? Maybe not? What if characters are portrayed exactly the way fans remembered it from the books?

So much hate. Palpatine would be proud.

Just now, Freeptop said:

Their experience isn't exactly atypical, either, though. I grew up as a huge Star Wars fan. I pre-ordered every volume of Zahn's original trilogy, and went forth and read every book... then I hit the Jedi Academy trilogy. And then I hit another Kevin J. Anderson special of "IG-88 was everywhere, he was even in the core computers of the Death Star!!!!" I gave up on the EU at that point. I was quite willing to give up the Thrawn Trilogy if it meant trashing the other stuff, too. By doing that, Disney has allowed themselves to pick and choose carefully what to bring back into canon, which means they can leave out things like the "Sun Crusher" - the starfighter that can make stars blow up!

Of course, once you get past us hardcore Star Wars fans, and out into the mass audience, most don't know a thing about anything that isn't in one of the movies. The EU was successful, but it's still only a minority of the total Star Wars audience that ever consumed very much (if any) of it.

Oh absolutely agree but that minority is exactly the right sort of vocal minority for hyping a new SW film on social media etc. I dabbled in the EU (KOTOR, Thrawn trilogy) rather than immersed in it and largely gave SW up after TPM/ AotC. But there was a sizeable minority of fans who kept the EU going (by buying the books etc) and made the brand a more attractive one for new investors (Disney in this case)

I also agree with the Disney approach of getting rid of the EU then re-canonising the good stuff.

1 hour ago, Derpzilla88 said:

Out of curiosity (and in all honesty, I've been wanting to ask this to a lot of people that hate TFA just to see what the answers are) what would YOU have made the story be? Without just making movies of the Legends canon books, what would you have the overall storyline be for a sequel to Return of the Jedi?

That is an easy one. I would have made Kylo Ren "win" the light saber fight at the end. Anakin's light saber cut in half. Rey being separated from the fight by the canyon formed.(Or Chewie saves her) Ends the same by Rey giving the broken hilt back to Luke.

This sets up both Rey and Kylo better for the next film. Showing Rey still has lots to learn and it makes Kylo a bit more intimidating. It also would lend into the whole myths of re forging the broken sword.

Ultimately, as much as I loved the EU, it had to go. The Vong destroyed it long before Disney did and its really hard to justify pruning that without cutting off the whole branch.

Disney's approach has been pretty healthy for the most part; recognizing that few of the specifics of those stories are as important as what those characters represent. For example, I'm a HUGE Kyle fan, but I really don't miss the Valley of the Jedi or Dark Troopers. I would love to see him return somehow, but its the character that matters more than his stories. That's sadly true of most of the EU cast I really love.

I would really like to see the economics of the EU. While I don't have the facts so I'll admit this is conjecture, it could not have in any way come close to the revenue generated by the 6 films. Disney bought the Star Wars Universe because of Han Solo and the Millennium Falcon, not Skippy the Jedi Droid.

Just now, BlodVargarna said:

I would really like to see the economics of the EU. While I don't have the facts so I'll admit this is conjecture, it could not have in any way come close to the revenue generated by the 6 films. Disney bought the Star Wars Universe because of Han Solo and the Millennium Falcon, not Skippy the Jedi Droid.

It depends on what you're talking about really. If you just talk about tickets and DVD sales.... I bet the EU out paces it. If you include toys and stuff... new story. The books probably aren't super relevant overall. The economics on some of the high profile videogames like the Dark Forces series, Rogue Squadron games, KotOR and the like are a different story.

26 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Meanwhile, Palpatine's spirit lingers. We find out though (across the next two episodes) that Palpatine was Plagueis all along, because when Sidious had given himself fully to the corruptive powers of the Dark Side, Plagueis was able to strip Palpatine's spirit from his body and project his own force-essence into Palpatine's now-empty body, thus possessing and taking over Palpatine's body (while Palpatine's spirit ceased to exist, effectively killing him). This has all sorts of metaphors for being used or consumed, in a literal sense, by the seductive Dark Side. So Palpatine was Palpatine's body with Plagueis' spirit. Now, Plagueis has achieved immortality, beyond just that of exisiting as a Jedi Force Spirit or a Sith Force Ghost. Literal, physical, emobied immortality...as long as he has a body to claim when his current vessel wears out. So Anakin was created by Plagueis to be his eventual new body. Created strong in the force, a body to eventually be shaped and claimed. So when Darth Vader is brutalized by Obi-Wan, Palpatine is furious because his prized biological chariot is ruined. Vader spends the majority of his time in pain, soaking alone in bacta, suffering. Palpatine does not want that body. Not anymore. This is why Luke is so god-damned appealing to Palpatine, and why he wants Luke so badly. If he can corrupt Luke under the Dark Side, he can cast out his spirit and transfer himself to Luke's body. This is why he gambles the entire Empire on corrupting Luke. He needs him to survive. And here's where Midichlorians might actually help Star Wars: because a being's force power is related to their midichlorian connection, Palp can't just just into any body. He needs the body of a someone who has a capacity for the Force, someone like Luke, not just that strong healthy young Storm Trooper down the hall. But that fails, and Palpatine (really Plagueis) is cast down the shaft, where his body is destroyed. Of course, before his demise Plagueis is able to separate from Palpatine's body and exists as a disembodied Force Ghost (the sort of unsatisfying existence he didn't want).

So, over the years this Force Ghost of Plagueis now has to find a suitable vessel (he claims the body of some evil though not force-sensitive chump along the way). So he puts his eyes on the most corruptible of Luke's pupils (since Luke is, himself, old at this point...and Plagueis does want his revenge on Luke, afterall). So slowly but surely, with his multiple lifetimes worth of cunning and experience, Plagueis sets a plan into motion. He creates another "Anakin" (that is, a child who is abnormally strong in the force who he eventually plans on possessing) and waits, and watches, and plots, and waits. Cue your new villain.

No offense, but I'm pretty glad we didn't get Episode 8: "Invasion of the Force Snatchers."

The First Order completely smashed the Republic government in TFA. Not sure they'll be the ones "striking back"

46 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

This makes zero sense. How did a bunch of comics, video games, and some very poorly written books make Star Wars what it is today?

Seriously?

Would Star Wars be what it is today if all it was for 40 years was six movies and a cartoon?

25 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

But if you're saying everything about TFA is bad, then it should be quick and easy to come up with something better, right? Doesn't seem very fair to bash something without offering ways to (in your opinion) improve or change it. While still following the same restrictions those who made TFA were stuck with.

How would a lot of the post-RotJ legends canon material even have been made into a movie as quickly as TFA could have? The main cast of the OT were a heck of a lot older than they are in any of those books. Hire look-alike actors to play the part of Luke, Han, Leia, and Lando? You can bet the fanbase would have been a storm of anger/disappointment if that were the case. And how likely would it have been that any of them would have wanted to sign on to play the main roles in another Star Wars trilogy? Sounds like Harrison Ford was happy with TFA being his final Star Wars film.
And what do you cut out of those books to fit them in a movie-length timeframe? Can the Thrawn Trilogy or New Jedi Order series be trimmed down to three two and a half hour movies without losing anything of importance. Maybe? Maybe not? What if characters are portrayed exactly the way fans remembered it from the books?

People live longer in the Star Wars universe. Using that info you could easily make episode 7 take place post Crucible. Han, Luke and Leia can be minor characters. Jaina and Ben can be the main heroes.

25 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

So much hate. Palpatine would be proud.

So would be the senate.

I will decide wether i like the movie or not when i actually watch it. I am that crazy. I don't have high expectations tho.

57 minutes ago, Odanan said:

This.

Also, the Starkiller base destroying several Republican planets at the same time (planets that are impossibly close of each other) except the planet where is the actual enemy (the Resistance).

The resistance is rather small at the point of TFA, and they took out the republic fleet at the same time as they wiped out the planets in the system (the resistance wasn't in the same system).

39 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

That is an easy one. I would have made Kylo Ren "win" the light saber fight at the end. Anakin's light saber cut in half. Rey being separated from the fight by the canyon formed.(Or Chewie saves her) Ends the same by Rey giving the broken hilt back to Luke.

This sets up both Rey and Kylo better for the next film. Showing Rey still has lots to learn and it makes Kylo a bit more intimidating. It also would lend into the whole myths of re forging the broken sword.

If that's all you would change from TFA, I'm gonna say it wasn't that bad of a movie (personally I was a fan, I quite enjoyed it)

49 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

But if you're saying everything about TFA is bad, then it should be quick and easy to come up with something better, right? Doesn't seem very fair to bash something without offering ways to (in your opinion) improve or change it. While still following the same restrictions those who made TFA were stuck with.

This is literally literally (not figuratively literally) the worst argument one can come up with.

"Don't like it? **** you, do it better yourself!"

Don't like what the president is doing? Maybe get elected and show us!

Don't like a new law? Write a better one!

Don't like that your bread is stale? Bake a better one!

Don't like that the bus is late? Maybe you become a bus driver and show us all how you can be on time!

Don't like that portrait you paid me to pain? Well, maybe you could paint it better, huh?

Coming up with a good story is not what you do in five minutes and not everybody can do that.

23 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

That doesn't answer the question. And immediately goes against the part where I said "can't use Legends canon storylines".

Given the same restrictions the writers for TFA had (it has to be a movie and none of the material outside of movies and recent TV shows is canon) what would your sequel to Return of the Jedi be? What would be the general storyline for your Star Wars movie that has to both appeal to as many long-time fans as possible (those who grew up with the OT as well as those that grew up with the PT) and for newcomers to the saga that may know little to nothing about Star Wars?

No, I'm not going to just shoot down your ideas or say they suck. I'm generally curious. I'm probably going to ask this same question to the people who hate TFA that frequent my LFGS.

If I were to rewrite TFA, I'd make it along the lines of the Empire was defeated at Endor sure, but they made the galaxy pay for each planet the New Republic tried to take. Every hint that the NR was going to invade a sector set off a slew of planetary bombardments and withdrawal of Imperial forces farther into the Outer Rim. Coruscant is now a planet of rubble, the New Republic is struggling just to keep the Core populations from being wiped out due to starvation and disease, and they are stretched too thin putting out the fires of the galaxy to go into the Empire's territory to end the conflict for good.

The Empire has reformed itself as the First Order. No longer under the philosophy of ruling by fear, they now desire to totally destroy anybody that doesn't bow before them. Coruscant was the first major example of this. With their defending fleet cut off from escape and the prospect of losing their seat of power inevitable, they decide to give the Republic the ultimate Pyrrhic victory by ordering their Star Destroyers to break orbit and crash into the planetary cityscape. Reactors are set to critical levels and turbolasers fire onto the planet's surface until the massive ships impact and massive fireballs erupts as the physics bending energies contained in the reactors find escape.

With the Republic unable to do anything, it falls to the citizens of the galaxy, people deprived of their homes, their families, their history, and their livelihoods, to keep the First Order at bay. They are the thin red line that keeps the FO from breaking out of their borders in an effort to reconquer the galaxy. Relatively antiquated ships are barely adequate as the First Order struggles to modernize their forces in order to begin their campaign of terror.

And where are the Jedi in all this? Similarly to the movie, Luke attempted to rebuild the Jedi Order only for them to be slaughtered due to the betrayal of Ben Solo and his Knights of Ren. The destruction of the galaxy and continued atrocities of the First Order caused Ben to speak out that the Jedi should once again take the lead of the Republic's military. Luke knows that this is what caused the initial fall of the Jedi and refuses to take part, as a dozen newly minted Jedi would just be destroyed in the conflict and the survival of the Order was paramount in his mind. Ben's zealousness in wanting to fight the FO causes him to be tempted by the Dark Side, and a mysterious figure (WITH A NAME OTHER THAN FREAKING SNOKE) steps out of decades of dark contemplation to pull him fully into the Dark Side's embrace and join those he wished to fight in order to bring a stop to the death through the total submission of every system invaded.

And thus we have the setup for the movie. Luke in exile after seeing his dream cut down by a crimson saber, Han losing his son and once again becoming a rogue in order to cope, and Leia pouring herself into the Resistance as she feels that is the only place where she belongs at this point.

So what of the new characters? We have Rey, a refugee of Coruscant. She makes just enough money to survive by finding trinkets, valuables, and tech from the ruins of the planet and selling them to scrappers. Poe is still pretty much Poe. Finn is not a goofy janitor, but the son of an Imperial survivor of Endor. Somebody who raised him with tales of how the Empire was an instrument of peace and order. After being drafted into the First Order's stormtrooper corps, he followed unquestioningly and excelled at his work but became increasingly jaded at the FO's tactics. The last straw is when the FO orders the execution of his mother, the retired Grand Admiral Rae Sloane, for publicly denouncing the FO leadership. Fed up with serving such an organization, he looks for his first chance to escape his servitude. Instead of being the bumbling idiot of the group, he's just a person raised in nearly 1984 levels of thought control suddenly thrust into the company of normal people.

We start with an older Wedge Antilles meeting in the ruins of Coruscant with Poe to give him the final piece of the puzzle. The vaults of the Imperial Palace had survived the destruction of the city, but it had taken many years for him to get through the rubble and past the still functioning security systems and droids. The meeting is interrupted as shuttles appear in the distance. Wedge sacrifices himself for the safety of his friends, Poe is captured, and BB-8 finds his way to Rey.

Things go according to the original movie except that instead of a giant ball shaped weapon, we have the New Order deciding to unleash a new level of radicalism onto the galaxy to coincide with the New Republic celebrating their reclamation of Corellia and the establishment of it as their new seat of government. A flotilla of Imperial Star Destroyers, derided as a relics and a reminder of failure, have been stuffed to the gills with a highly unstable substance that is rendered even more so by disruptions in hyperspace travel. With General Hux talking his forces into a fervor, the skeleton crews set course for each planet of the Corellia system while flanked by an honor guard of the new Resurgent Class Star Destroyers. With the promises of being immortalized in the galaxy's history, the older ships jump into hyperspace.

On Corellia, the governing class of the galaxy toasts the first of many star systems that will be brought back from devastation. They are in a glistening tower arching into the sky among the continuing construction of a city. Much like grass after a wildfire, the skyscrapers are slowly growing towards the warmth of the sun. The celebrants never realize what is coming. A massive object slams into the planet's surface going many times the speed of light. The sudden jolt into realspace causes the exotic substance to exponentially increase the force of the impact of a kilometer long object going at hyper relativistic speeds. The whole continent shatters before the whole of the planets begins to crack apart. The escaping energies finally fracture the planet into a newly formed asteroid field. Across the system, the remainder of the Five Brothers receive a similar attack. In just 10 minutes, Corellia, Drall, Selonia, Tallus, and Trallus have been completely destroyed. A whole star system reduced to glowing debris.

With a good chunk of the Republic's fleet having been caught in the blast, the Resistance realizes that it must strike for the first time deep into First Order territory. Finn has given the location of the refining facility where this substance is made; the only planet in the galaxy that has the exotic substances that act as the primary ingredient. If they don't destroy both it and the surrounding shipyards where the ISDs are retrofitted as suicide bombs, their base will be destroyed and the rest of the galaxy will have no choice but to submit to the First Order...

TFA was junk. And I didn't like its aesthetic. was wayyy too obvious. LOOK FOR 20 SECONDS AT THIS BLATANT XWING MONTAGE.

If this is a rehash, then it's clear Luke's phrasing at the end about the time of the Jedi being over is a clear nod to bounty hunters (disintegration is fair game this time around).

Rey's fear at the beginning and the crushed Vader mask with breathing noises is when she goes into the Dark Side cave (she won't even need weapons!)

And guys, Finn in that torture chair/bacta tank is clearly nothing more than Carbonite Clear (Tab and Pepsi copyright lawsuits in episode 9 fer sure!)

I guess I'm just an eternal optimist, because even if it's just a 2.0, I'm excited to see it

I think the Legacy of the Force books would have made a pretty good trilogy (hey its kinda like we have now, Han and Leia's kid [Jacen/Kylo] goes evil and a his sister has to fight him [Jaina/Rey], okay yes ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE does anything suggest Rey is in any way related to Kylo but honestly would any of us really be surprised if that happened?) combine the first 3 books into the first movie and so forth, we get our gut wrenching family divided by war, lots of space battles and lightsaber combat.

The only real problem I see is that people who read the books would know what was going on but is that any different than any other films being made off of book series? (Harry Potter, Hobbit/Lord of the Rings, Hunger Games, Divergent etc)

1 hour ago, VanderLegion said:

The resistance is rather small at the point of TFA, and they took out the republic fleet at the same time as they wiped out the planets in the system (the resistance wasn't in the same system).

The resistance guys saw with their naked eyes (and during the day, if I recall) those planets exploding. They were not only in the same system: they were very, very close planets. I mean, much closer than Earth is to Mars.

4 minutes ago, Odanan said:

The resistance guys saw with their naked eyes (and during the day, if I recall) those planets exploding. They were not only in the same system: they were very, very close planets. I mean, much closer than Earth is to Mars.

First off, they didn't see it from the resistance planet, they saw it from Takodana, which is nowhere near the republic capital (Hosnian prime) in the galaxy. This was just a major f***up by the team making the movie not knowing (or blatantly ignoring) any realism at all.

15 minutes ago, Odanan said:

The resistance guys saw with their naked eyes (and during the day, if I recall) those planets exploding. They were not only in the same system: they were very, very close planets. I mean, much closer than Earth is to Mars.

Nope, they saw it because the starkiller shot warped the hyperspace or something like that. I know I know, doesn´t make much sense. But honestly not much in star wars does

Edit: Straight from the wiki: The space-time disruption caused by the phantom energy's passage would make the nova instantaneously visible thousands of light years away