"I don't like the new Star Wars movie because it's too much like Star Wars."

Okay.

Complain about how TFA is just a copy and paste of the original Star Wars all you want, it's still a good movie. Still better than the prequels.

The prequels were a terrible exercise in ex post facto storytelling, with Lucas shoe-horning in all the unnecessary junk into the story. I think its a generational thing. Kids who grew up with the prequels tend to be much more forgiving than kids who grew up with OT.

As for prequels vs VII, there's no comparison. 1-3 were garbage. 7 is imperfect but not terrible, and in fact had some great moments. I can't really think of a single moment in all 3 prequels I didn't think sucked.

and if I were to make a new movie, I would only have a single character or two from the previous era carry over to the new movies, allow them to play a major role in the plot, but have it completely detached from the previous films at this point. That way I wouldnt ruin the orginal feel and characters like they did for Han and Leia and Luke. None of those characters deserve the lack luster roles they potrayed in the films. Han dies, Leia cries, and Luke....stands around like erp derp. C3PO makes a mess of things during a scene and R2 is like, OH RIGHT, IM IN THIS MOVIE near the end.

3 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I prefer the Prequels to Episode 7, for basically that reason.

The Prequels expanded the Star Wars universe, and filled it with places and people and ships and things we hadn't yet seen.

Episode 7 ALSO added places and people and things we hvaen't seen yet. Even new a couple ships, albeit not very many. Heck, NONE of the planets in TFA to my recollection are from the original movies. On the other hand a large portion of TPM happened on...tatooine.

3 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

They made the Star Wars universe feel bigger and slightly more flushed out, they gave it substance, and made it more interesting. Episode 7 was empty and made Star Wars feel smaller and boring. We never get a sense of scale, we just get a rehashed story full of fan-servicing winks toward the camera and we're left with far more questions than answers (but not in the good way). In a "wait...if shields don't stop things in hyperspace why not just hyperspace an empty ******* GR75 right into the oscillator???" "Why should I care those five planets were just killed?" etc. Sure, the novels attempt to patch some of this poodoo pile into a patchwork quilt of passable mediocrity, but a movie that is supposed to "gain new fans and reinvigorate old" shouldn't require five novels to stand.

The Prequels were a great story told very poorly (effects, dialogue, etc.)
Episode 7 was a terrible story told wonderfully (effects, dialogue, etc.)

You can make the prequels drastically better by just editing out the dumb, silly, childish, or unnecessary parts and whittling away until you have some pretty decent (though shorter) films. To make Ep7 a better movie, you need to add a lot of stuff that was entirely missing.


For these reasons, as a Star Wars fans, I much prefer the prequels over Episode 7, because at least they added to the world-building of Star Wars and made it feel bigger, fuller, and full of even more wonder. Episode 7 just made me feel like they emptied the universe out and gave us a beautiful but empty husk, like a faberge egg when all I really wanted was a nice big omelette, but that faberge egg can't do anything for me there to satiate my hunger, even if it looks beautiful.

I definitely agree on the lack of any sense of scale to the universe. That's my biggest beef with the new movies. Seems like it takes no time at all to travel from point A to point B. And I wouldn't even say the prequels had a great story, just the *potential* for one. A lot of the pieces were there, but as a whole...

1 minute ago, Zeoinx said:

and if I were to make a new movie, I would only have a single character or two from the previous era carry over to the new movies, allow them to play a major role in the plot, but have it completely detached from the previous films at this point. That way I wouldnt ruin the orginal feel and characters like they did for Han and Leia and Luke. None of those characters deserve the lack luster roles they potrayed in the films. Han dies, Leia cries, and Luke....stands around like erp derp. C3PO makes a mess of things during a scene and R2 is like, OH RIGHT, IM IN THIS MOVIE near the end.

I have a lot less issue with bringing the OT characters into TFA than I do with shoe-horning every single character that was alive at the time into the prquels. Characters like artoo and threepio had NO business being in those movies.

11 minutes ago, Zeoinx said:

I wouldnt make a new movie, because the "legends" books can be made into either a live action TV series, or even a high quality CGI series for Netflix or cable.

That doesn't answer the question. And immediately goes against the part where I said "can't use Legends canon storylines".

Given the same restrictions the writers for TFA had (it has to be a movie and none of the material outside of movies and recent TV shows is canon) what would your sequel to Return of the Jedi be? What would be the general storyline for your Star Wars movie that has to both appeal to as many long-time fans as possible (those who grew up with the OT as well as those that grew up with the PT) and for newcomers to the saga that may know little to nothing about Star Wars?

No, I'm not going to just shoot down your ideas or say they suck. I'm generally curious. I'm probably going to ask this same question to the people who hate TFA that frequent my LFGS.

6 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

Out of curiosity (and in all honesty, I've been wanting to ask this to a lot of people that hate TFA just to see what the answers are) what would YOU have made the story be? Without just making movies of the Legends canon books, what would you have the overall storyline be for a sequel to Return of the Jedi?

Hell, I think there are even ways to take the story Episode 7 gave us and make some great stories in 8 and 9, but it all hinges on who Snoke is.

I don't mind the First Order, I don't mind Kylo Ren (as the fallen child of Solo/Organa), and I liked the new hero characters.

I did mind Death Star III. I minded hyperspacing through a shield yet not into the planet. I minded Han, Chewie, and Finn running around the Starkiller Base installation and literally only running into two people: the one person who could turn the shield off (and don't get me started on Miss Rule-Follower Devotion being like "okay, shields off!") and Rey, the person they were looking to rescue. ****, that's convenient! Also, why was that base so empty? I minded the Republic not giving a **** about the First Order, while all the heroes of the Rebellion did (like, if the Republic was that **** stupid, maybe they deserved to be obliterated?). And if the First Order was so non-threatening and not worth taking seriously, why are they called the "Resistance?," as that implies a resistance of the dominant power. Yet clearly the First Order was not taken as a serious threat to the galaxy or the Republic. I minded Poe shooting down six TIE Fighters and three Stormtroopers in four seconds because Star Wars can be exciting without the whole "Legolas God of Nonsense" schtick, and if THAT obscene demonstration of his god-like flying wasn't enough, we have a character exposition for us ("That's a HELL OF A PILOT!") Ugh, cringe. I minded the three minutes wasted on space squids and their faux action. I minded that within moments of leaving Jakku they just happen to get found by Han. And within moments of getting found by Han, Han just happens to get found by not one, but two angry gangs he owes money. Jeezus, lazy story-telling and pacing much? I could, literally, go on and on, but these are elements of what I think many of us did not like about TFA. All of this is terrible story-telling and they forgot entirely the world-building part.

1 minute ago, Derpzilla88 said:

That doesn't answer the question. And immediately goes against the part where I said "can't use Legends canon storylines".

Given the same restrictions the writers for TFA had (it has to be a movie and none of the material outside of movies and recent TV shows is canon) what would your sequel to Return of the Jedi be? What would be the general storyline for your Star Wars movie that has to both appeal to as many long-time fans as possible (those who grew up with the OT as well as those that grew up with the PT) and for newcomers to the saga that may know little to nothing about Star Wars?

No, I'm not going to just shoot down your ideas or say they suck. I'm generally curious. I'm probably going to ask this same question to the people

A question like that requires time, much deep thought and careful treading, instead of doing what Disney did and spanking over the OT storylines and ships to come up with a idea that prob took 2 minutes to come up with.

And to not acknowledge anything of the legends material is basicly slaping everyone who made starwars what it is today in the face.

Just now, Zeoinx said:

And to not acknowledge anything of the legends material is basicly slaping everyone who made starwars what it is today in the face.

This makes zero sense. How did a bunch of comics, video games, and some very poorly written books make Star Wars what it is today?

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

what your saying is we are getting another of the Star Wars Movie 9 out of 10 people say is the best out of the lot.

i am game :-p

8 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

This makes zero sense. How did a bunch of comics, video games, and some very poorly written books make Star Wars what it is today?

Not all of it is poorly written. We have Mara Jade, Admiral Thrawn, all the bounty hunter ships you play with, and a ton of other material thanks to years (nay, decades) of writing. drawing and gaming. Not all of it was great, but there is a LOT of Star Wars out there thanks to people other than Lucas.

Haters gang up. I liked the prequels. VII. and all the other movies. Some of the best are the fan made movies imo. I will love 8 too, and 9 etc. btw. Jar Jar does make me giggle.

4 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

This makes zero sense. How did a bunch of comics, video games, and some very poorly written books make Star Wars what it is today?

It didn't, but various Star Wars fans are disillusioned.

2 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

This makes zero sense. How did a bunch of comics, video games, and some very poorly written books make Star Wars what it is today?

Try to Troll harder, no really, if you are going to be a **** about something give me some effort, impress me

2 minutes ago, Zeoinx said:

Try to Troll harder, no really, if you are going to be a **** about something give me some effort, impress me

No really, please explain how that EU junk made star wars what it is today?

3 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

This makes zero sense. How did a bunch of comics, video games, and some very poorly written books make Star Wars what it is today?

Becuse it kept Star Wars alive. Stories like Shadows of The Empire, Knights of the Old Republic, the Thrawn trilogy, and the young Jedi series brought new people into the fandom and sustained older fans. Some of those extra sources made the Clone Wars era actually good to me again. And there are still fans who are asking for their old favorites like Revan, Kyle Katarn, Jaina Solo, and Mara Jade back. Did you see how big the reaction to Thrawn being brought back into canon? Disney knew how much he mattered to fans, and brought him back. With that Revan figure popping up at SW celebration, there has been people wondering if he is about to come back as well.

While I understand why Disney did away with the EU, I sympathize with those who feel the loss of their favorite characters and storylines from Star Wars was the wrong decision.

Over the years I've tried to will my perception into something that makes the prequels acceptable; I actually spent most of the 6 years watching them believing they were okay, but they're just not. I used to be a big believer in the "good story poorly told" but ultimately they're not even that. The one, ONE worthwhile plot thread is the idea that Palpatine engineered a civil war to justify his rise to power and trap and eliminate the Jedi. That idea is solid, but its poorly told.

The problem is, that's just the background story. The plot itself is really about the shaping of Anakin Skywalker into Darth Vader and to that end, there's really not a single story element that works. The only mildly redeeming concept is "got cyborg'd after losing a fight to his teacher" that was essentially inferred from the original films (and part of the story bible).

The story itself is completely irredeemable. I want to believe otherwise but absolutely nothing works. Anakin's fall is a terrible story terribly told and completely demolished the brand until Episode VII was able to remind people why they loved Star Wars in the first place.

4 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Becuse it kept Star Wars alive. Stories like Shadows of The Empire, Knights of the Old Republic, the Thrawn trilogy, and the young Jedi series brought new people into the fandom and sustained older fans. Some of those extra sources made the Clone Wars era actually good to me again. And there are still fans who are asking for their old favorites like Revan, Kyle Katarn, Jaina Solo, and Mara Jade back. Did you see how big the reaction to Thrawn being brought back into canon? Disney knew how much he mattered to fans, and brought him back. With that Revan figure popping up at SW celebration, there has been people wondering if he is about to come back as well.

While I understand why Disney did away with the EU, I sympathize with those who feel the loss of their favorite characters and storylines from Star Wars was the wrong decision.

I was never into that stuff. The characters and stories I've loved for 40 years now have been Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie and the gang.

I was sustained over the years by watching and rewatching the movies. I played a couple of the video games but that didn't keep my fanhood sustained.

6 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Becuse it kept Star Wars alive. Stories like Shadows of The Empire, Knights of the Old Republic, the Thrawn trilogy, and the young Jedi series brought new people into the fandom and sustained older fans. Some of those extra sources made the Clone Wars era actually good to me again. And there are still fans who are asking for their old favorites like Revan, Kyle Katarn, Jaina Solo, and Mara Jade back. Did you see how big the reaction to Thrawn being brought back into canon? Disney knew how much he mattered to fans, and brought him back. With that Revan figure popping up at SW celebration, there has been people wondering if he is about to come back as well.

While I understand why Disney did away with the EU, I sympathize with those who feel the loss of their favorite characters and storylines from Star Wars was the wrong decision.

I, OTOH, get excited every time I see an EU thing get recanonized again.

Seriously, how is it that a bunch of people on a SW-based gaming website have so much hate for the franchise??? Some parts are better than others, but it all part of my most beloved universe!!!

16 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Hell, I think there are even ways to take the story Episode 7 gave us and make some great stories in 8 and 9, but it all hinges on who Snoke is.

I don't mind the First Order, I don't mind Kylo Ren (as the fallen child of Solo/Organa), and I liked the new hero characters.

I did mind Death Star III. I minded hyperspacing through a shield yet not into the planet. I minded Han, Chewie, and Finn running around the Starkiller Base installation and literally only running into two people: the one person who could turn the shield off (and don't get me started on Miss Rule-Follower Devotion being like "okay, shields off!") and Rey, the person they were looking to rescue. ****, that's convenient! Also, why was that base so empty? I minded the Republic not giving a **** about the First Order, while all the heroes of the Rebellion did (like, if the Republic was that **** stupid, maybe they deserved to be obliterated?). And if the First Order was so non-threatening and not worth taking seriously, why are they called the "Resistance?," as that implies a resistance of the dominant power. Yet clearly the First Order was not taken as a serious threat to the galaxy or the Republic. I minded Poe shooting down six TIE Fighters and three Stormtroopers in four seconds because Star Wars can be exciting without the whole "Legolas God of Nonsense" schtick, and if THAT obscene demonstration of his god-like flying wasn't enough, we have a character exposition for us ("That's a HELL OF A PILOT!") Ugh, cringe. I minded the three minutes wasted on space squids and their faux action. I minded that within moments of leaving Jakku they just happen to get found by Han. And within moments of getting found by Han, Han just happens to get found by not one, but two angry gangs he owes money. Jeezus, lazy story-telling and pacing much? I could, literally, go on and on, but these are elements of what I think many of us did not like about TFA. All of this is terrible story-telling and they forgot entirely the world-building part.

This.

Also, the Starkiller base destroying several Republican planets at the same time (planets that are impossibly close of each other) except the planet where is the actual enemy (the Resistance).

Just now, BlodVargarna said:

I was never into that stuff. The characters and stories I've loved for 40 years now have been Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie and the gang.

Yes but your experience is not identical to others. Disney did not pay £4 billion without being sure that there was a huge fan base ready to be exploited. The size and enduring nature of the EU showed how much the brand still meant to an awful lot of people (even after the prequel trilogy)

36 minutes ago, Zeoinx said:

I wouldnt make a new movie, because the "legends" books can be made into either a live action TV series, or even a high quality CGI series for Netflix or cable.

The Legends were very hit-amd-miss. Yes there were some gems but I would rather watch TFA on infinite loop than anything touched by Kevin J Anderson.

Just now, BlodVargarna said:

I was never into that stuff. The characters and stories I've loved for 40 years now have been Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie and the gang.

And that's fine. You found the part of Star Wars that you wanted and was satisfied with that. Perfectly reasonable.

But, others didn't. Part of my love for Star Wars came from watching my older brother play Dark Forces, and letting me read the comics of Shadows of The Empire. Just because you were not impacted by the EU doesn't mean other people weren't. To us, Star Wars is way more than three movies. It is an entire universe expanded and explored in a thousand different ways. Not all were good, but enough were to keep us dreaming of a galaxy far, far away.

5 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

That doesn't answer the question. And immediately goes against the part where I said "can't use Legends canon storylines".

Given the same restrictions the writers for TFA had (it has to be a movie and none of the material outside of movies and recent TV shows is canon) what would your sequel to Return of the Jedi be? What would be the general storyline for your Star Wars movie that has to both appeal to as many long-time fans as possible (those who grew up with the OT as well as those that grew up with the PT) and for newcomers to the saga that may know little to nothing about Star Wars?

No, I'm not going to just shoot down your ideas or say they suck. I'm generally curious. I'm probably going to ask this same question to the people who hate TFA that frequent my LFGS.

Here's mine:

Luke has started to rebuild the Jedi Order, but it's small.
Leia is a Political Somebody in the Republic, but there's still lots of in-fighting and bickering between worlds as the power vacuum of the Empire's defeat spreads and as folks realize it's hard to put "we should all govern ourselves!" into practice. This has taken a big morale toll on Leia and the legitimacy of the Republic in general.
Han is dead, but survived by his children with Leia (cause to be revealed later)
Lando is an administrator for the Republic, helping manage finances and contracts and the like


Meanwhile, Palpatine's spirit lingers. We find out though (across the next two episodes) that Palpatine was Plagueis all along, because when Sidious had given himself fully to the corruptive powers of the Dark Side, Plagueis was able to strip Palpatine's spirit from his body and project his own force-essence into Palpatine's now-empty body, thus possessing and taking over Palpatine's body (while Palpatine's spirit ceased to exist, effectively killing him). This has all sorts of metaphors for being used or consumed, in a literal sense, by the seductive Dark Side. So Palpatine was Palpatine's body with Plagueis' spirit. Now, Plagueis has achieved immortality, beyond just that of exisiting as a Jedi Force Spirit or a Sith Force Ghost. Literal, physical, emobied immortality...as long as he has a body to claim when his current vessel wears out. So Anakin was created by Plagueis to be his eventual new body. Created strong in the force, a body to eventually be shaped and claimed. So when Darth Vader is brutalized by Obi-Wan, Palpatine is furious because his prized biological chariot is ruined. Vader spends the majority of his time in pain, soaking alone in bacta, suffering. Palpatine does not want that body. Not anymore. This is why Luke is so god-damned appealing to Palpatine, and why he wants Luke so badly. If he can corrupt Luke under the Dark Side, he can cast out his spirit and transfer himself to Luke's body. This is why he gambles the entire Empire on corrupting Luke. He needs him to survive. And here's where Midichlorians might actually help Star Wars: because a being's force power is related to their midichlorian connection, Palp can't just just into any body. He needs the body of a someone who has a capacity for the Force, someone like Luke, not just that strong healthy young Storm Trooper down the hall. But that fails, and Palpatine (really Plagueis) is cast down the shaft, where his body is destroyed. Of course, before his demise Plagueis is able to separate from Palpatine's body and exists as a disembodied Force Ghost (the sort of unsatisfying existence he didn't want).

So, over the years this Force Ghost of Plagueis now has to find a suitable vessel (he claims the body of some evil though not force-sensitive chump along the way). So he puts his eyes on the most corruptible of Luke's pupils (since Luke is, himself, old at this point...and Plagueis does want his revenge on Luke, afterall). So slowly but surely, with his multiple lifetimes worth of cunning and experience, Plagueis sets a plan into motion. He creates another "Anakin" (that is, a child who is abnormally strong in the force who he eventually plans on possessing) and waits, and watches, and plots, and waits. Cue your new villain.

Of course, when this is learned, the main task for Luke and his best disciple (new gen main character) must go on a quest through the history of Jedi Knowledge and Force Knowledge to try and learn how to defeat a Sith Spirit that has mastered immortality as such. The final solution will likely involve a hefty sacrifice by Luke, destroying himself and his Force Essence and the Sith Ghost in the process (and hence fulfilling the Prophecy of the Chosen One, which had been Luke all along and "balance" to the Force meant to destroy the Sith that had learned to create life and avoid death, thus defying the Will of the Force).

Of course, part of this grand Force-Family-Story (which is what Episodic Star Wars is about) involves the other characters and the Republic's struggle to put out some of the fires that those who sit in the throne have to face, some of which are machinations of the Force Ghost (who had lived lifetimes prior to Plagueis, too, learning and taking, learning and taking, always a new body and a new name, but always the same venerable and well-learned Master of the Dark Side....).