Episode 8 could really expand gameplay and balance

The early ships need some help, and a Rogue One style expansion would be nice (no crazy power creep)... but will FFG see the opportunity here, or go the GW "newest is bestest" route?

My impression is that FFG has been trying really hard to do exactly that; minimize power creep while introducing new mechanics/challenges. I remember that when the Punishing One expansion dropped, it was considered the best thing evah by the fans. So the message should, at the very least, also be sent in their direction.

An opportunity to re-sell old ship molds with new colors and cards? Why on earth do you think FFG isn't salivating on that, it seems exactly their style.

4 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

An opportunity to re-sell old ship molds with new colors and cards? Why on earth do you think FFG isn't salivating on that, it seems exactly their style.

Very true... veterans-esq packs that make themselves

5 hours ago, Lobokai said:

Episode 8 could really expand gameplay and balance

The early ships need some help, and a Rogue One style expansion would be nice (no crazy power creep)... but will FFG see the opportunity here, or go the GW "newest is bestest" route?

I'm not sure GW ever really had a "newest is best" policy, just wildly inconsistent unit quality. Which is why we got ravenwing knights (awesome) released at the same time as the landspeeder vengeance (oh god what were they thinking?).

I don't think FFG is trying to make the movie waves more powerful. Poe might had been on top when he first came out but has steadily been stomped by the rise of Scum & Villainy.

However one thing that can be said is that movie tie in ships are not tested on the same scheduled as the rest of the wave. There is a development priority on those new ships so they can be spoiled and released on their contractual obligated release date (which is why I often consider them their own wave). Because of that it is harder to properly balance them and often many people notices some discrepancies between the movie and the game (such as side gunner for the U-wing and Poe's pilot skill). Also movie tie ins are strictly tested in house and are not available to volunteer testers.

So it isn't that FFG is trying to make movie ships OP, but FFG doesn't have as much time and flexibility to vetting the movie models as thoroughly. So there is where you might see your occasional accidental power creep.

22 hours ago, Lobokai said:

Episode 8 could really expand gameplay and balance

The early ships need some help, and a Rogue One style expansion would be nice (no crazy power creep)... but will FFG see the opportunity here, or go the GW "newest is bestest" route?

Well, I've certainly seen the argument that "if the design space is filled, the is no need for so-and-so new ship." I disagree; this game needs to get back to being Star Wars first, and an awesome minis game second. I would not mind a few "lukewarm" waves that fill in the current lore (Phoenix Squadron, Blue Squadron, named characters, Prequel ships, Episode 8 ships) and really don't introduce much in terms of new mechanics. Or maybe just one new rule/mechanic (e.g., squadron rules) and see what that does to the meta. But, I would like to see, for example, the N-1 to be "mostly an A-Wing" and yet still have it in the game.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, I've certainly seen the argument that "if the design space is filled, the is no need for so-and-so new ship." I disagree; this game needs to get back to being Star Wars first, and an awesome minis game second. I would not mind a few "lukewarm" waves that fill in the current lore (Phoenix Squadron, Blue Squadron, named characters, Prequel ships, Episode 8 ships) and really don't introduce much in terms of new mechanics. Or maybe just one new rule/mechanic (e.g., squadron rules) and see what that does to the meta. But, I would like to see, for example, the N-1 to be "mostly an A-Wing" and yet still have it in the game.

Except plenty of games in the past have proved that being "Star Wars first" in place of actually being an awesome game is not enough

55 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Except plenty of games in the past have proved that being "Star Wars first" in place of actually being an awesome game is not enough

Actually, my point is that this game IS awesome, and needs to work at getting back to being Star Warsy*, which would make it even MORE awesome.

We have "take control of nimble starfighters;" we need "relive the amazing battles."

*And by that, I mean filling in elements that allow for Star Wars storytelling, like squadron names, characters, missions, scenarios, space slugs, mines, atmospheric battles, and the like.

On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 5:54 PM, Marinealver said:

Also movie tie ins are strictly tested in house and are not available to volunteer testers.

False. Read playtesting credits on every release you will see a list of volunteers from around the world

40 minutes ago, The R5Don4 Star II said:

False. Read playtesting credits on every release you will see a list of volunteers from around the world

There are plenty of uncredited play testers too. I can tell you from my sources that they were not given anything on movie tie in ships so still the play test poll is smaller than the rest of the waves.

I think those "volunteers" are not exactly volunteers as there was some sort of contract to get their names on the package. So still in-house, still a smaller playtester poll. And you can't say that the release dates were false as none of the Movie Tie ins were released (or even spoiled) at the same date the rest of their wave was.

So you cannot tell me that movie Tie-in ships are developed and treated the same way as any other ship released in the wave because there is numerous amounts of facts that clearly prove they are not! Don't try and come to the rescue of FFG, for one they are doing a good enough job both game and financially so they don't need it and two trying to say that they are faultless is not giving the talent the respect that they deserve through proper criticism.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

There are plenty of uncredited play testers too. I can tell you from my sources that they were not given anything on movie tie in ships so still the play test poll is smaller than the rest of the waves.

I think those "volunteers" are not exactly volunteers as there was some sort of contract to get their names on the package. So still in-house, still a smaller playtester poll. And you can't say that the release dates were false as none of the Movie Tie ins were released (or even spoiled) at the same date the rest of their wave was.

So you cannot tell me that movie Tie-in ships are developed and treated the same way as any other ship released in the wave because there is numerous amounts of facts that clearly prove they are not! Don't try and come to the rescue of FFG, for one they are doing a good enough job both game and financially so they don't need it and two trying to say that they are faultless is not giving the talent the respect that they deserve through proper criticism.

"your sources" can 100% prove that they are asked for their opinions on every ship, upgrade, pilot, except those in movies. Can they?

There is a difference between the announcement of ships (which is very likely dictated by LFL, as they control spoilers for movies as much as possible) and whether they were playtested. I know from speaking to playtesters that they don't know which ships are movie ships or not. They're given a statline & dial, pilot abilities, upgrade card text, not names . So I think the burden of proof is on you to show us that movie ships are somehow differently playtested to the rest of the ships.

Can you find a shred of evidence (not personal anecdotes) that shows your point?

They should let me test the movie tie-in ships. I literally don't give a crap about the movies anymore. I don't watch Rebels, I have pretty much no plans to see the Ep8, and after the dumpster fire that was Rogue One (I hated it. If you loved it, I'm delighted for you. I really wanted to going in, but couldn't). I am the epitome of the objective tester.

Now send me lots of lovely upgrades to try! Just give me the dials and the stat line, and some banging upgrade cards with no names, and I'll be happy out.

1 minute ago, NakedDex said:

They should let me test the movie tie-in ships. I literally don't give a crap about the movies anymore. I don't watch Rebels, I have pretty much no plans to see the Ep8, and after the dumpster fire that was Rogue One (I hated it. If you loved it, I'm delighted for you. I really wanted to going in, but couldn't). I am the epitome of the objective tester.

Now send me lots of lovely upgrades to try! Just give me the dials and the stat line, and some banging upgrade cards with no names, and I'll be happy out.

The point is, whether you loved Rogue One and want to stare at Felicity Jones for the rest of your life, never watched the OT but enjoyed VII and Rogue One because explosions, or decided it was a dumpster fire after watching it, you can still objectively test a ship from that movie. You don't know what it is because you don't have a model, name, or any real information about the ship beyond faction, base size, etc.

Side Point: Did you not even enjoy the awesome Vader scene at the end? Like, murdering the rebels completely with no remorse or mercy???

1 hour ago, ThalanirIII said:

...

Can you find a shred of evidence (not personal anecdotes) that shows your point?

Launch dates of Wave 8 and 10 and the fact that there are two separate launch dates along with two separate announcement dates.

Wave Tie-ins are on a separate development schedule thus a separate development program .

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

Launch dates of Wave 8 and 10 and the fact that there are two separate launch dates along with two separate announcement dates.

Wave Tie-ins are on a separate development schedule thus a separate development program .

Separate development schedule says nothing about the development program for them or how well they were play tested. They haven't been allowed to announce them until force Friday and want to launch them alongside the movie, so yes, the announce and release dates don't line up with the rest of the "waves" they're technically part of. But just because

yhry don't get announced until September and launch in December doesn't mean they wernt in development and playtesting just as long as any other expansion. And it's not like normal wave ships have never had issues of being too good or too bad...

I'm always curious if waves are developed with good foreknowledge of where the next wave will go? Is there overlap, and if so, how much?

2 hours ago, ThalanirIII said:

Side Point: Did you not even enjoy the awesome Vader scene at the end? Like, murdering the rebels completely with no remorse or mercy???

The best bit was when it ended and I got to leave.

14 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Launch dates of Wave 8 and 10 and the fact that there are two separate launch dates along with two separate announcement dates.

Wave Tie-ins are on a separate development schedule thus a separate development program .

Flawed logic there. Separate development schedule does not imply separate development program, because as I said, LFL (or FFG) wanted certain products to be announced in tandem with the movie releases. Not that they want them to be tested in a different way. Putting a meme in does nothing to help your point either.

You might want to take off the tinfoil hat there mate, you're seeing connections where there are none.

7 hours ago, ThalanirIII said:

Flawed logic there. Separate development schedule does not imply separate development program, because as I said, LFL (or FFG) wanted certain products to be announced in tandem with the movie releases. Not that they want them to be tested in a different way. Putting a meme in does nothing to help your point either.

You might want to take off the tinfoil hat there mate, you're seeing connections where there are none.

Movie Tie Ins can't be delayed. You cannot tell me that that their release schedule is not different from the rest of the wave.

Tin-foil hat whatever. This is pattern analysis, I will tell you that this is the pattern and lets see how FFG will repeat itself. Wave 12 is announced (no movie tie-ins) Then the movie tie-ins are announced. The movie tie-ins will be released on the same week at the movie is released. Wave 12 will still experience delays and won't be here until 2018.

You can tell me I'm wrong on these forums all you want, but the only people who can tell me I'm wrong are FFG, and that would be by breaking the typical pattern this year. So if the movie tie in are announced and release with Wave 12, then I am wrong, until then you "white knights" can keep shooting your blaster rifles at me all you want. I'll just stand right over here.

8 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Movie Tie Ins can't be delayed. You cannot tell me that that their release schedule is not different from the rest of the wave.

Tin-foil hat whatever. This is pattern analysis, I will tell you that this is the pattern and lets see how FFG will repeat itself. Wave 12 is announced (no movie tie-ins) Then the movie tie-ins are announced. The movie tie-ins will be released on the same week at the movie is released. Wave 12 will still experience delays and won't be here until 2018.

You can tell me I'm wrong on these forums all you want, but the only people who can tell me I'm wrong are FFG, and that would be by breaking the typical pattern this year. So if the movie tie in are announced and release with Wave 12, then I am wrong, until then you "white knights" can keep shooting your blaster rifles at me all you want. I'll just stand right over here.

You still lack any proof that a different release schedule for the movie ships ALSO means different (and inferior) testing for those same expansions.

The current wave will be out at GenCon most likely. The EPS 8 stuff may or may not be out in Dec but I get the feeling that most likely it will not be, though it being spoiled around Dec makes sense. The market just doesn't really need the movie release hype train like action figures do.

27 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Movie Tie Ins can't be delayed. You cannot tell me that that their release schedule is not different from the rest of the wave.

Tin-foil hat whatever. This is pattern analysis, I will tell you that this is the pattern and lets see how FFG will repeat itself. Wave 12 is announced (no movie tie-ins) Then the movie tie-ins are announced. The movie tie-ins will be released on the same week at the movie is released. Wave 12 will still experience delays and won't be here until 2018.

You can tell me I'm wrong on these forums all you want, but the only people who can tell me I'm wrong are FFG, and that would be by breaking the typical pattern this year. So if the movie tie in are announced and release with Wave 12, then I am wrong, until then you "white knights" can keep shooting your blaster rifles at me all you want. I'll just stand right over here.

That was more of a ramble than a nice walk in the hills.

You still haven't answered my question to you, so let me put it simply.

The burden of proof is on you , because you are declaring this tinfoil hat theory about movie releases not being tested in the same way as non-movie releases .

Is there any evidence of your theory, other than your personal anecdotes? Do you have any statement from FFG? Any statement from playtesters about how they have played every single expansion apart from movie tie ins?

Do you have any proof that playtesters know what they are testing beyond statline, dial, and text (not names?)

Otherwise, I will continue to believe the null hypothesis - that FFG tests all its expansions in the same way.

Nobody is saying they are released on the same wave pattern (they aren't because they are designed to tie in to movies) but you're spouting BS about them not being tested the same way as other ships.

On 4/14/2017 at 9:06 AM, Lobokai said:

Episode 8 could really expand gameplay and balance

The early ships need some help, and a Rogue One style expansion would be nice (no crazy power creep)... but will FFG see the opportunity here, or go the GW "newest is bestest" route?

I find the argument in the blog post to be slightly inconsistent. The writer makes the point that FFG needs to knock it off with the power creep because it's driving players away, and then says that weaker ships will still sell because players tend to be collectors and buy ships anyway because its Star Wars. Seems that those people will purchase ships regardless of power creep, so if power creep gets the non-Star-Wars-fans to buy more ships, they're making more money than putting out weak ships that only the collectors are going to buy.

32 minutes ago, Jetfire said:

The current wave will be out at GenCon most likely. The EPS 8 stuff may or may not be out in Dec but I get the feeling that most likely it will not be, though it being spoiled around Dec makes sense. The market just doesn't really need the movie release hype train like action figures do.

going by the last 2 years, the EP8 ships will be announced on Force Friday and release alongside the movie.