Dear All,

Yesterday we had a situation which usually doesn't happen in a non heroes’ game.
I needed one more banner to win the game. I attacked the hero acting as a Leader with my hero acting as a leader. I was able to score SoS hits and kill the unit's banner bearer. Which at this point I captured all banners needed to win the game. Should I continue the battle and check for a casualty check on the Hero? And if he survives this casualty check, can he battle back and possibly kill my unit and take a banner and even more also kill my hero on a casualty check. If this is true then the game can possibly end in a draw.

If someone can find an interpretation for this situation in the rules, please post it.

Regards,

Fadi

I assume you are the one that posted this exact smae question on Boardgamegeek a couple days ago. My answer is there.

You can end this in a draw unless FFG changed DOW's original ruling. So don't attack a unit that can potentially battle back and tie the game!

I don't remember exactly when the idea of a draw was brought up, but I thought it was only in Epic games under certain circumstances. In the base game rules, it is quite clear that the game ends when the necessary banner total is achieved - regardless of at which point of the turn the game is:

"A game always ends the very moment a player reaches
his required number of Victory Banners, regardless of
when this occurs during the game turn. This means that
a game might even end on a successful battle back, with
the victory of the active player’s opponent."

I'll try to remember to look up the draw conditions later - ColtsFan (congratulations, by the way ), do you remember where/what about those were?

Of course, this could all be moot if there is something specific in Heroes about surviving Heroes as Leaders suddenly becoming Champions and being able to battle back - I really should play some Heroes and figure this stuff out

One draw scenario in the base game showed up in the Lore Cards compendium. Say an attacking unit and a defending unit each have one figure left, and both camps are one victory banner away from the number required to win. The attacking unit rolls the defending unit's banner color and a sword on shield. The defender plays the "Backstab" Lore card, which applies the SoS hit to the attacking unit. Both the attacking and defending units are then eliminated and both camps have equal but sufficient banners to win. According to the compendium, this would be a draw.

I suppose one could argue that because the SoS wouldn't actually have hit, the "Backstab" is useless here. But it's a nice (and thematic) alternate endingthe winner's comeuppance comes in his moment of victory.

I read up a bit on Heroes, but perhaps I am missing or misreading a section - I don't see where a Hero acting as a leader would get to battle back if the unit it was leading is removed. It is probably the C&C:Ancients player that was assuming the Hero would retreat after the unit it was leading was removed, but I don't really see that said either. Does the Hero at this point become a Champion, and if not retreating then battle back as a Champioin Hero would?

.........

I did find the section in Epic rules that I was not quite remembering:

"In Epic Adventures, the Victory Banner count is usually set at 7
banners. The winning Camp must also hold a margin of at least
2 Victory Banners (ie 7-5, 8-6, etc…) over its opponent to achieve
a decisive victory. Otherwise, the game ends in a marginal victory
in favor of the first player that reaches 9 Victory Banners."

Marginal Victory is what I was thinking of. As the hoog pointed out, the only instance of a true draw I can think of is the backstab play on a roll which would cause both the defender and attacker to lose a banner. Possibly some special rule victory conditions could also bring about ties (something like a player gains a victory banner if a particular hex is vacant, and the opposing player scores a banner by eliminating a unit upon that hex...), but I don't see the situation that the OP describes causing such an occurrence - seems to me that the game would end as soon as the banner is collected from the unit being removed.