5 hours ago, Marinealver said:

So we were up against a Scum list with a G-roc (Gozanti proxied for a C-Roc, uses same dial, damage deck, and base but used the C-ROC card and treated as a scum ship), The C-Roc had Jabba, Azmorgon and HLT. One person brought Ventres, Eval (with HLC), and Dengar, and another brought Big@$$ Kath, Kavil with TLT and expertise, a couple of protectorate and a Black Sun Klingon (Kihrax) with a cloaking device.

Still Best idea is to put as many fighters between the huge ships and its largest threats.

I agree with your thoughts. Imagine what the Scum could've done if they had replaced all their ships with just cheap Kihraxz Fighters for 20 pts each. They would've ripped apart quite a bit. Or mix in a bunch of Mangler Scyks.

9 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Well just played an epic match however didn't finish it because store always insist on using the same 3 hour block they use for regular X-wing night instead on a weekend. Anyways Team epic, ended up being 3 with a total of 400 squadron points 6 epic points per team (so similar to your 2 v 2). I wen straight for big ships and big ships only.

Raider Front

• Single Turbolaser
• Tibana Gas Cylanders
• Gunnery Team

Raider Rear

• Darth Vader
• Shield Technician
• Engine Team
• Sensor Team
• Quad Laser CannonS
• Quad Laser Cannons
• Backup Shield Generator (In case front got blown up)
• Optimized Generators
• Instigator

Vader in the Raider? That's... that's...

Inspired.

What's better than Vadering someone to death? Vadering someone to death in a ship that can regenerate! Oh, wait, Imperial ships don't have regen? Well, there are two ships that do...

I feel like you overspent - the Teams aren't really worth it IMHO, and Jonus sounds better than he actually IS and ties up 25```````ish points that could be a Bomber with a missile and EM - but Vader solves the main problem of the Raider very elegantly: Lack of die modification that means its damage output is pathetic compared to its point value. Jonus is very expensive, TLs even with a Weapon Tech don't go very far covering 5 attacks (and take up a vital Crew slot), but Vader?

Brilliant.

it does run counter to the points locker theory of the Raider, but slapping down guaranteed crits, particularly against other Huges, seems pretty worth it.

7 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

Vader in the Raider? That's... that's...

Inspired.

What's better than Vadering someone to death? Vadering someone to death in a ship that can regenerate! Oh, wait, Imperial ships don't have regen? Well, there are two ships that do...

I feel like you overspent - the Teams aren't really worth it IMHO, and Jonus sounds better than he actually IS and ties up 25```````ish points that could be a Bomber with a missile and EM - but Vader solves the main problem of the Raider very elegantly: Lack of die modification that means its damage output is pathetic compared to its point value. Jonus is very expensive, TLs even with a Weapon Tech don't go very far covering 5 attacks (and take up a vital Crew slot), but Vader?

Brilliant.

it does run counter to the points locker theory of the Raider, but slapping down guaranteed crits, particularly against other Huges, seems pretty worth it.

The Vraider I call it. But yeah you are right I did overspend on the Raider. Didn't really need all the teams and fill up all slots but problem is that the LFGS we go to doesn't exactly plan epic matches all to well. Epic games are all team games, and it is not 200 sq points 3 ep points per player but instead 400 squadron points and 6 epic points per team. Also teams were made on the spot so around 5:30 found a buddy to make a list before 6. For about a half an hour setting things up and then around 6:45 we got a 3rd teammate. We weren't match until 7:15 who wasn't ready until 7:30. We didn't really start playing until 8, first turn was over at 8:30, store closes at 10. (I keep saying that Epic games need to be held on a weekend (friday, saturday) where they are open till midnight).

So at this point yeah the match was so poorly organized you really can't give any tactical analysis. One of my teammates told m I spent too much points on Jonus, well yeah I spent too much points on everything but by the time the last turn was declared (which was 4) it was all over. Out team was clearly in the lead with 3 large ships, a Klingon and a protectorate removed at the loss of Countdown, Sabac, and a Black Squadron TIE.

I think if I had my druthers, it would be:

Raider Aft w/ Darth Vader, Shield Tech, Ion Cannon Battery, Quad Laser Battery, Backup Shield Generator, Optimized Generator, Instigator

Rader Fore w/ Ion Cannon Battery, Tibanna Gas Supplies

Comes to 142 points.

This thing is going to RUN through the Energy - hence the Optimized Generator and Tibanna Gas. Any turns that you get a shot, you're pinging shields off your safe zones to Recover next turn - or at the end of the Combat Phase with Backup Shield Generator. Ion Cannon Batteries are chosen over STLs because there's still a chance of hitting, they match the Raider's main guns, and if they hit they deal two crits and an ion token with Vadering. Though Quad Lasers is a valid choice if you REALLY want to live dangerous, because if Vader can proc off both of a Gunner's shots, then he should be able to proc off of both Quad Laser shots. STLs are good too because range 5 is surprisingly long, and you don't care if they have high Agility, you're still dealing crits! Engineering Team is a MAYBE because it's good but makes you predictable - and you're pretty expensive as it is for a glorified suicide sled.

1 hour ago, iamfanboy said:

I think if I had my druthers, it would be:

Raider Aft w/ Darth Vader, Shield Tech, Ion Cannon Battery, Quad Laser Battery, Backup Shield Generator, Optimized Generator, Instigator

Rader Fore w/ Ion Cannon Battery, Tibanna Gas Supplies

Comes to 142 points.

This thing is going to RUN through the Energy - hence the Optimized Generator and Tibanna Gas. Any turns that you get a shot, you're pinging shields off your safe zones to Recover next turn - or at the end of the Combat Phase with Backup Shield Generator. Ion Cannon Batteries are chosen over STLs because there's still a chance of hitting, they match the Raider's main guns, and if they hit they deal two crits and an ion token with Vadering. Though Quad Lasers is a valid choice if you REALLY want to live dangerous, because if Vader can proc off both of a Gunner's shots, then he should be able to proc off of both Quad Laser shots. STLs are good too because range 5 is surprisingly long, and you don't care if they have high Agility, you're still dealing crits! Engineering Team is a MAYBE because it's good but makes you predictable - and you're pretty expensive as it is for a glorified suicide sled.

Yeah that was the idea, I didn't want to Vader through shields until I cleared all three ships from my rear since Vader will always trigger on the back side as that is the weakest for shields. I could have swapped Shield Tech for Construction Droid to clear some face down damage to go with shields as well.

Butt yeah I can see Vader going hay wire. That one turn I told you about that I used Vader was only for one out of 6 attacks. So yeah I could have just crushed the aft of the Raider. I can Imagine Vader saying "Engines Do Not Concern Me", or hull, or crew, or life support...

Darth Vader doesn't only hit the aft. As per the unofficial FAQ (of questions answered via email, which generally have stupid answers but are at least SOMETHING to point to), the opposing player chooses which side Darth Vader procs on. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UvIu15XvLX2yzNAt6Pfs06o8rRYKjxqsclOkT2BnxnI/edit#

Seems VERY arbitrary to me and smacks of "Developer suddenly thinks OMFG too strong needs balancing right now how can I balance this oh the opponent chooses," but it is something - until they actually put out an actual Epic FAQ. I'd question the hell out of it myself, as no other effect in the GAME does anything like that any more and it's a ruling that's two years old, but it is there.

Hey! Balanced by the finding that I've been doing double-card ship Recovers wrong this whole time - I thought that you had to choose ONE side to be targeted by the Recover action, and in fact it just says "restore one shield to either side"! I think that, in view of that, removing Backup Shield Generator is VERY justified. That's 3 less points, so it comes it at 139! Or get a second Tibanna Gas!

Vader only works like that because of the rule on Huge ships regarding damage dealt from sources that don't specify a section. It's in the official Epic rules, it's not an arbitrary ruling.

Official Epic Rules document: https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/2d/47/2d47a35a-6ec7-4d4b-a262-efacde97dfa3/huge_ship_rules.pdf

Page 3:

Quote

If a huge ship suffers damage from a source that does not explicitly affect a single section, the opposing player chooses which section suffers the damage. Crippled sections cannot be chosen.

Darth Vader crew falls under this rule pretty clearly.

Anyway, I'm a big fan of the Vader Raider, despite its slight downside. I ran a missile boat Vader Raider in my Epic league last year and it did really well. Here's my build:

Raider Fore

• Homing Missiles
• Ordnance Experts
• Ordnance Tubes

Raider Aft

• Darth Vader
• Weapons Engineer
• Homing Missiles
• Proton Torpedoes
• Sensor Team
• Gunnery Team
• Impetuous

141 pts of pure terror. I'll be honest, I hate energy-based weaponry. It eats up so much energy and is difficult to modify. I run Ordnance Tubes when I get the chance and it's always served me well. I run this Raider alongside Howlrunner and Jonus (both are TOTALLY worth it by the way) and three TIE/D-titled Defenders as fighter escort. Howlrunner also has Decoy, which allows the Raider to shoot at PS8.

This thing wrecks small-based ships. My opponent brough a TIE swarm as fighter escort and I was able to pop two ships a turn pretty regularly. What you do is take two TLs via Weapons Engineer and fire your Homing Missiles first. Since you don't have to spend your lock to fire Homing Missiles, you use Jonus and Ordnance Experts/Gunnery Team to modify your dice. Then you fire your two primary weapon shots, using Howlrunner or your TL to modify. You can use Vader to finish off any wounded ships. Also, anytime you kill a ship the Impetuous title triggers and lets you take two new TLs! You can use these to fire even more missiles out the Aft section if you have ships in arc. One turn I was able to take five attacks with the Raider: two Homing, two primary, one Proton. It's pretty amazing.

14 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

Darth Vader doesn't only hit the aft. As per the unofficial FAQ (of questions answered via email, which generally have stupid answers but are at least SOMETHING to point to), the opposing player chooses which side Darth Vader procs on. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UvIu15XvLX2yzNAt6Pfs06o8rRYKjxqsclOkT2BnxnI/edit#

Seems VERY arbitrary to me and smacks of "Developer suddenly thinks OMFG too strong needs balancing right now how can I balance this oh the opponent chooses," but it is something - until they actually put out an actual Epic FAQ. I'd question the hell out of it myself, as no other effect in the GAME does anything like that any more and it's a ruling that's two years old, but it is there.

Hey! Balanced by the finding that I've been doing double-card ship Recovers wrong this whole time - I thought that you had to choose ONE side to be targeted by the Recover action, and in fact it just says "restore one shield to either side"! I think that, in view of that, removing Backup Shield Generator is VERY justified. That's 3 less points, so it comes it at 139! Or get a second Tibanna Gas!

True, Darth Vader could damage either side, it is the opponent that makes the decision which gets hit. But when the Fore section has 6 shields and the aft section only has 4, it is a clear decision on what section is going to get the 2 damage. I could have removed shield technician and just included construction droid to remove some of those face down damage cards Vader would likely give me so I am not worried about my shields always dropping.

As for Tabana it is limited so no more than 1 per ship.

Wait so are 200 points of small ships always better than an 200 point epic ship? What about at 125 points? Where is the threshold for each epic ship?

On 13/04/2017 at 5:12 AM, flyboymb said:

We normally play 300 points for Epic to make it... more epic:

Raider Fore: Ion Cannons Battery, Gunnery Team, Comms Booster, Optimized Generator (69)

Raider Aft: Shield Technician, WED-15, Plasma Torpedoes, Cluster Missiles, Engineering Team, Shield Projector, Ordnance Tubes (73)

Has there been an errata that allows 2 modifications on huge ships or is this an illegal build?

It's just like the main game. Adding upgrades doesn't significantly increase a ship's durability, so at some point if you've doubled your base cost you've just made yourself a bigger balloon to pop.

Generally speaking, I like to keep the Transport class stuff around 45 points and the Covette's around 125. The Imperial stuff generally ends up 10ish points higher than the Rebel stuff.