Y-wings pay way too much for increased PS. With no native repositioning and a very limited dial, moving later doesn't help much. This is why Soontir (in the past) and Fenn (right now) feel so good for their cost. Moving last with a good dial and both boost and barrel roll to choose from is great. Gaining a certain pilot skill seems to be costed nearly the same across all ships and that is a mistake.

Kavil is Keyan Farlander. Amazing ability... And then he's dead.

51 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

Y-wings pay way too much for increased PS. With no native repositioning and a very limited dial, moving later doesn't help much. This is why Soontir (in the past) and Fenn (right now) feel so good for their cost. Moving last with a good dial and both boost and barrel roll to choose from is great. Gaining a certain pilot skill seems to be costed nearly the same across all ships and that is a mistake.

Kavil is Keyan Farlander. Amazing ability... And then he's dead.

Moving later does help if they want to launch Torpedoes at people. Maybe not worth the points you spend on the named guys, but it does help. Also, the lack of EPT does make the higher PS guys even less worth their points.

Autokavil was my favorite for sometimw, did well in casuaö and tournament tables. Kavil, PTL, Autoturret, EU, and unhinged ...

5 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Horton with Plasmas, EM and Chimps is cheaper than TLT and is one hell of an alpha strike, he's high enough in PS that TLs shouldn't be a problem, and even then 2 more points gets you EPT bot and VI or deadeye. After that you got an accurate 2 die attacker that wants to be at range 2-3, something that Y-wings aren't too bad at, and after shooting two super accurate torps he's probably done his share of work anyway so any extra you get out of him is total icing on the cake.

sure but that is not Horton with TLT. I wasn't necessarily explaining why Horton is not taking as much as why Kavil who is also great with TLT,s is not taken as much. When it comes to TLT Both Horton and Kavil have a lot in common. As for torpedoes, Kavil can't really do anything with them other than fill his EPT slot with deadeye and the dead-eye R4 Agromech combo which didn't work all too well with higher pilot skill was broken by timing as a nerf.

19 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

sure but that is not Horton with TLT. I wasn't necessarily explaining why Horton is not taking as much as why Kavil who is also great with TLT,s is not taken as much. When it comes to TLT Both Horton and Kavil have a lot in common. As for torpedoes, Kavil can't really do anything with them other than fill his EPT slot with deadeye and the dead-eye R4 Agromech combo which didn't work all too well with higher pilot skill was broken by timing as a nerf.

I was trying to say that TLT isn't all that and a bag of chimps. And the Scum Y torp boat is drea, anyway. Kavil, you deserve a real turret, like BT, give him Mindlink and some friends like Guri and Palob and he's fine.

1 minute ago, GrimmyV said:

I was trying to say that TLT isn't all that and a bag of chimps. And the Scum Y torp boat is drea, anyway. Kavil, you deserve a real turret, like BT, give him Mindlink and some friends like Guri and Palob and he's fine.

Well neither was I, but again you took it as an attack on Horton Salm, I'm not saying Horton is bad, I'm just saying that paying for TLT and Horton is not worth the cost just like paying for Kavil and TLT is not worth the cost even though on paper those would be top performing builds. Both of these TLT builds fail at efficiency.

Now again as you mention the more efficient build for Horton is torpedoes, but then that wouldn't be comparable to Kavil which is what the OP is talking about. Please keep the context of the thread in mind and stay on topic. This is about Kavil, and why he doesn't work with TLT. Not Horton, it is just you can explain why Horton does not work well with TLTs and it would be the same reason why Kavil doesn't work well with TLT.s

Kavil (24)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Unhinged Astromech (1)
Vectored Thrusters (2)

Total: 34

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

My favorite Kavil build. I've run this a number of times. PS9 means he gets to move last(ish), and VT gives him the reposition action that makes him really purr. Unhinged, cause "gotta go fast". I play him as an artillery piece/token stripper. Opponents try and chase him and it just _doesn't_ work. Partner him with a hard hitter like Fenn or Zuckuss, and you've got a solid list.

Kavil with Dorsal turret, VI, unhinged and vectored thrusters is interesting. 4 dice at range one, 3 dice at range 2. The interesting bit is that your trying to keep people out of your arc.

Kavil w/Deadeye+Sync Turret will be fun. The thing is you will want to buy some Torpedoes if you already carry deadeye....must see if the cost will be fine or not.

Not sure if Synced Turret will be a thing with deadeye, because you dont have to use target lock for your attack. All tho it might be good on Kavil.. PTL, ST,EU and unhinged...

Actually, I think Deadeye would be great with Synced Turret. Deadeye satisfies the requirement to have a target lock. You can spend the focus token as a focus token. If the target is in Kavil's arc, he'll get double modifiers. If it's out of his arc, he'll get an extra die and can spend his focus. If he has R4 Agromech besides, when he spends his focus he'll get a TL for the next turn. Not bad at all!

get him dorsal turret and perhaps EU

12 hours ago, Lampyridae said:

Kavil's ability works once per opportunity and adds ONE die. As with all attack-twice weapons, it will only add ONE die to ONE attack. So, 4 dice then 3 or 3 then 4.

Errr - are you sure?

His ability says "When attacking...", but nothing about 'once per round'.

Thus, his ability should trigger both times you encounter step 2ii of the timing chart.

---

By your logic, Predator and Juke would only trigger once for TLT's and Cluster Missiles, which I don't believe to be the case.

There is no mention in the FAQ against Kavil or any of the cards above to support your interpretation.

But he's so awesome with BTL-A4, Bomb Loadout, and Genius!

On 14/04/2017 at 1:54 AM, ABXY said:

Errr - are you sure?

His ability says "When attacking...", but nothing about 'once per round'.

Thus, his ability should trigger both times you encounter step 2ii of the timing chart.

---

By your logic, Predator and Juke would only trigger once for TLT's and Cluster Missiles, which I don't believe to be the case.

There is no mention in the FAQ against Kavil or any of the cards above to support your interpretation.

Yeah I think my interpretation needs revision. For 1 extra attack dice, we were going on Jan Ors' FAQ as a precedent, ie it could only be used once in an attack - and there was no mention of Stress being the limiting factor. Reason was, people were using the reasoning behind Predator to roll the extra die twice. By extension, that applied to N'dru (our resident N'dru players played him this way and probably sold themselves short).

Jan Ors’ ability only applies to a single attack. For example, if a ship equipped with Gunner or Cluster Missiles rolls the extra attack die granted by Jan Ors on its first attack, it does not receive the extra attack die from Jan Ors again during the second attack.

But looking at the timing chart, strictly following it there's no reason to think N'dru's ability shouldn't trigger twice (or Fearlessness, or Opportunist + Electronic Baffle + Clusters/TLT). Trouble is, we use precedent to resolve other issues: if the FAQ says X for the wording of Y, then X must also be true for Z.

9 minutes ago, Lampyridae said:

Jan Ors’ ability only applies to a single attack. For example, if a ship equipped with Gunner or Cluster Missiles rolls the extra attack die granted by Jan Ors on its first attack, it does not receive the extra attack die from Jan Ors again during the second attack.

Conversely though, if you could contrive to remove the stress from Jan in between attacks (I don't think there's a way to do so at the moment, but if a putative upgrade or ability let you) she could use her ability multiple times per round, and could use it *again* on the second attack of a Cluster Missile etc.

The ONLY things that changed their timing in the chart WRT PTAT weapons are things that trigger after attacking/defending which got shunted to the end of the whole attack sequence rather than a single one of the two attacks.

Kavil's ability works on both TLT attacks. MIranda's would too, if it wasn't once per round.

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Conversely though, if you could contrive to remove the stress from Jan in between attacks (I don't think there's a way to do so at the moment, but if a putative upgrade or ability let you) she could use her ability multiple times per round, and could use it *again* on the second attack of a Cluster Missile etc.

The ONLY things that changed their timing in the chart WRT PTAT weapons are things that trigger after attacking/defending which got shunted to the end of the whole attack sequence rather than a single one of the two attacks.

Kavil's ability works on both TLT attacks. MIranda's would too, if it wasn't once per round.

No, I don't think so unless they actually remove or amend Jan's FAQ entry. Jan Ors' ability works on Snapshot, and also in a freak Chewbacca mid-activation phase retribution attack... in those cases a green at the right time or Wingman could do it. But not for attack-twice weapons or even Gunner.

Just now, Lampyridae said:

No, I don't think so unless they actually remove or amend Jan's FAQ entry. Jan Ors' ability works on Snapshot, and also in a freak Chewbacca mid-activation phase retribution attack... in those cases a green at the right time or Wingman could do it. But not for attack-twice weapons or even Gunner.

I don't think you're reading it right.

All the FAQ is saying is that *a single use* of Jan doesn't work on multiple attacks. I.e. you can't use her ability once, to get +1 die on your current attack and +1 die on your Gunner attack.

Given that it's currently impossible to use her multiple times on Cluster Missile/TLT/Gunner because of the stress, there's no need to say anything else.

But any argument that prevented her being used in the putative situation I propose, would ALSO prevent her being used on Snap Shot and subsequently on a normal action-phase attack. And she clear WOULD work in that situation.

On 4/12/2017 at 9:12 PM, KommanderKeldoth said:

I don't think Synched Turret will be all that good on Kavil. It gives you re-rolls when your target is in your firing arc and Kavil is all about keeping people OUT of his firing arc so he's missing out on some of its value.

Or, ya know, its filling a coverage gap in his ability.

The glass is half-full.

I think Synced won't be used on Kavil for the same reason it won't be used much on anything - because TLT is more than 2 points better, and Autoblaster Turret is less than 2 points worse.

I used a VI, Genius, Proton Bomb, EU, Dorsal turret, EM to move up, drop the bomb, EU out of the effect, and then Dorsal current what ever's left. Not competitive at 39 or so points but it was fun!

Kavil, Adrenaline Rush, "Genius", Vectored Thrusters, Autoblaster Turret (maybe synced now that this will become available) , bomb loadout, extra munitions, Proton bomb.

Expensive, but should be fun!