Player A has initiative and controls a station with a figure with 2 health left. Player B controls a different station with a figure with 2 health left. Both stations have line of sight to the figures controlling the other station.
Do both figures die and both players get 3 VPs from control, or does Player A's station kill player B's figure before player B scores/triggers the attack?
If both players are at 37 points does player A win?
If player A is at 34 points and the kill + control puts him to 40, but player B is at 37 and just the control puts him to 40, who wins?
"To Your Stations" end of round timing
AFAIK, it's a single event, so you perform it fully before checking the win conditions. (But due to "as soon as 40VP is reached" I would like to hear of any possible existing rulings. In the least VP from control are simultaneous and VP from defeats from damage are simultaneous.)
To Your Stations said:End of Each Round:
Each player gains 3VP for each security station he controls.
Then, for each security station, the player who controls it chooses a hostile figure in line of sight of that security station. Each of these figures suffers 2dmg.
1. gain VP
2. Choose hostile figures as instructed. All chosen figures suffer 2dmg.
3. Check amount of VP for win condition.
Edited by a1bert12 hours ago, a1bert said:AFAIK, it's a single event, so you perform it fully before checking the win conditions. (But I'm receptive to hearing about possible existing rulings. In the least VP from control are simultaneous and VP from defeats from damage are simultaneous.)
So if both players get to 40 from the points is it a tie? If one player gets to 41 does he win because he has more points?
The game ends when at least one of the players have at least 40VP. The player with more points wins. In the case of a tie, you re-count the points from defeated figures to break the tie. If it's still a tie, you count damage suffered - see the tournament rules for more details.
Edited by a1bert
13 hours ago, a1bert said:AFAIK, it's a single event, so you perform it fully before checking the win conditions. (But due to "as soon as 40VP is reached" I would like to hear of any possible existing rulings. In the least VP from control are simultaneous and VP from defeats from damage are simultaneous.)
1. gain VP
2. Choose hostile figures as instructed. All chosen figures suffer 2dmg.
3. Check amount of VP for win condition.
So if Player A has 37 points and player B has 35 points, but player A is killing a hired gun to get to 42 and player B is killing Luke to get to 50 I'm still not clear on who wins. Does player A trigger the win condition when you get points from the stations or do you wait to add the figure cost points from defeating the figure first?
Someone with more skirmish experience needs to confirm...
"Mission ends with 40 Victory Points : As soon as one player has accumulated 40 victory points from defeated figures, card effects, and mission effects. The player with the most victory points earns a win and their opponent receives a loss."
Here we have VP from "mission effects". To me the mission rule in To Your Stations is a single ability, so it is performed fully before you check the end of mission condition.
You'll score the points for the station, then the station does the damage.
If you get to your 40 pts this way before the other player can trigger their controlled stations, even if those would get them to 40 pts, you win.
24 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:You'll score the points for the station, then the station does the damage.
If you get to your 40 pts this way before the other player can trigger their controlled stations, even if those would get them to 40 pts, you win.
The way you're making this sound is that the player with initiative triggers his station first, is that right?
If player A kills player B's figure on his station, does B even score the points or do the damage?
7 minutes ago, brettpkelly said:The way you're making this sound is that the player with initiative triggers his station first, is that right?
If player A kills player B's figure on his station, does B even score the points or do the damage?
Yes. in the event of conflicting timings, player with initiative goes first. In this case, initiative player triggers all their stations and damage first, one station at a time. So it's perfectly possible to kill off an opponent's figure at another station before they have a chance to score points or do damage themselves.
Also, as soon as a player reaches 40 pts, game ends immediately. Which means initiative player can win before the other player has a chance to get the points to win themselves in this case.
It does not matter which player has initiative, because there are no player abilities that trigger at the same time, there is only one mission rule . There is no timing conflict in a resolution of a single mission rule.
(It is also clear from the wording of the mission rule that in the first part VP is gained simultaneously and all figures suffer damage simultaneously.)
Edited by a1bert
End of each Round: Each player gains 3 VPs for each security station he controls.
Then, for each security station, the player who controls it chooses a hostile figure in line of sight of that security station. Each of those figures suffers 2[Damage].
So given that each player gets 3VP's at the same time,
then
the 2 damage is dished out simultaneously I'm assuming the game can end before the damage is dished out. So to answer all my own questions:
Do both figures die and both players get 3 VPs from control, or does Player A's station kill player B's figure before player B scores/triggers the attack?
Both players get the 3VPs THEN both figures are defeated.
If both players are at 37 points does player A win?
If both players are at 37 points, the game ends before the damage is distributed. For tiebreaker determine who has more points scored from defeated figures, then who has more damage dealt. Do not count the figures that would have been defeated from the stations.
If player A is at 34 points and the kill + control puts him to 40, but player B is at 37 and just the control puts him to 40, who wins?
Player B wins because the VP's are awarded first, and the game ends when player B gets to 40 before stations deal damage.
Does this sound correct? Seems like there is not a consensus still.
I would still think the intent is to finish the resolution of the ability. So you would have both figures defeated and scored and then if someone hit 40 you end the game - not mid ability.
Think of this scenario, someone uses a probe droids self destruct - scores enough points with its blast to go to say 41 points, but the VP from the probe droid would put the opponent at 42. If you didn't finish out the ability than the probe droid player would win (he scores 40 points before resolving the last piece of text on the probe droid's self destruct ability). I would think it is intended that the opponent would also get the points for the probe droid.
The mission rules very clearly state "each player gains 3 VPs. THEN, [do the other stuff]". I'm not sure how you can interpret that as finishing the whole ability at the same time. If that was the intent they wouldn't have separated the two parts with a period and a "then". If the first part causes one player to reach 40, the game should end right then and there.
Considering worlds is in a month, is there any way to get an official ruling on this? Seems like there are 3 different interpretations on how the end of round timing works and they would definitely affect outcomes of games/change how you play. They gave a ruling for the other ISB HQ mission AT worlds and have since changed that ruling (you cannot place cams on blocking terrain). I'd rather not be figuring out the official ruling there.
As much as I like arguing with Brett, I do agree some clarification could be necessary. It seems like the round ends, and therefor the game ends, immediately upon receiving 40 or more VP. ( As soon as one player... )
QuoteEach tournament round ends in one of the following ways:
• 40 Victory Points: As soon as one player has accumulated 40 victory points from defeated figures, card effects, and mission effects.
I think we agree that it is one mission rule (I agree) and that VP are scored simultaneously for control points (I agree). There is still a window where (if one or both players meet or exceed 40 VP in the first step of the mission rule) the round, and game, will end without completely resolving the damage effects in the second half of the mission rule (which I believe would also be simultaneous).
Edited by Smashotron20 hours ago, brettpkelly said:Player A has initiative and controls a station with a figure with 2 health left. Player B controls a different station with a figure with 2 health left. Both stations have line of sight to the figures controlling the other station.
Do both figures die and both players get 3 VPs from control, or does Player A's station kill player B's figure before player B scores/triggers the attack?
If both players are at 37 points does player A win?
If player A is at 34 points and the kill + control puts him to 40, but player B is at 37 and just the control puts him to 40, who wins?
Breaking it down...
Skirmish Status Phase
To resolve the Status Phase during a skirmish, perform the
following steps:
1. Ready Cards: Both players ready all of their Deployment cards.
2. Draw Command Cards: Each player draws one Command card from his deck, plus one additional card for each terminal he controls.
3. End of Round Effects: Resolve any abilities or mission rules that are triggered at the end of the round.
4. Pass Initiative: The player who has the initiative token passes it to his opponent. Then players begin a new round starting with a new Activation Phase.
The mission:
End of each Round: Each player gains 3 VPs for each security station he controls.
Then, for each security station, the player who controls it chooses a hostile figure in line of sight of that security station. Each of those figures suffers 2[Damage].
So...
Each player gains 3 points for each terminal they control. (they would get to 40 at the same time)
Then, for each security station, the player that controls it chooses a figure in LoS.
Only after all that- does each of those figures suffer damage.
1) Nothing in this game is simultaneous. If there is a potential timing conflict you have to follow the rules of conflict resolution.
2) The question becomes not where do you break apart an ability to check VP totals vs 40, its really do you break up an action/ability/mission rule at all once someone hits 40?
The rules as written state "as soon as" for when the game ends. As written there is no room for any breakdown - so if one player or both players reach 40 (or all figures become defeated) as part of a single ability, by the rules as written you need to step through the conflict resolution until the first player gets to 40 points (or all figures are defeated) - at that point the game is supposed to end - any other things to do are ignored.
The rules question is if that triggers prior to other simultaneous effects on the same ability/action/mission rule, do those other simultaneous effects also happen (especially if they happen to give the other player more VPs possibly over turning the victory)? As written, no. As intended, possibly, and we are all picking different points within a single mission rule to end the game on - so who knows?
My personal take is that the current action/ability/mission rule should be played fully to completion and then the game ends - while that doesn't follow rules as written, it certainly makes everything cleaner and more reasonable.
I sent a message to Fantasy Flight. I'll let you guys know when I get an answer.
On 4/12/2017 at 6:06 PM, brettpkelly said:I sent a message to Fantasy Flight. I'll let you guys know when I get an answer.
I still haven't received an official answer yet. I'll try hitting them up again. Do they usually take over a week?
Easter holidays and other rush (Star Wars Celebration?) can affect the response.
I've waited months for responses.
a different mission card, but in my eyes the same question:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/27845133#27845133
answer
"the second ability [...] doesn’t have any specific sequencing instructions and should be treated as a single ability. All resulting VPs are gained simultaneously upon resolution of the ability. "
I know this is old but I did get an official ruling and it's been relevant for some other questions so here it is:
Hi Brett,
I think we covered this at Worlds, but just to make sure:
To Your Stations has two end of round effects. The first causes both players to simultaneously gain VPs based on control. If this puts one player over 40 points, the game immediately ends.
Then, the player with initiative chooses his security station targets, then other player chooses his. Those figures simultaneously suffer the 2 damage, and any resulting VPs are scored simultaneously.