10 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

You could just ask him why he is running an illegal fleet with over 33% of points in his squadrons.

After the first round of CC, the fleet point total bumps up to 500. 1/3 of 500 is 167 (rounded up) so that's how many points he can spend on squadrons, hence the massive amount of them.

Unless we've been getting that part wrong?

Just now, Derpzilla88 said:

After the first round of CC, the fleet point total bumps up to 500. 1/3 of 500 is 167 (rounded up) so that's how many points he can spend on squadrons, hence the massive amount of them.

Unless we've been getting that part wrong?

Thats wrong.

You must still follow the rule that only a 3rd of your points can be squadrons. The cap is 167 IF you are at 500pts. He is not. So his squadron cap is lower, somewhere around 155.

Another option: to simply the math we house-ruled squadron value by campaign round instead of fleet size so players don't have to constantly recheck and reconfigure their fleets.

You can rule that in round 1 it's 134 points of squadrons, round 2 its 150 and round 3+ it's 167, or whatever you like.

It does change things a bit but we haven't found anything game breaking. You're already using some major house rules so a tweak to squadron limits to simplify your lives doesn't seem like a deal breaker.

Odd. You'd think that over 1/3 of just AA squadrons doesn't break the game, but it looks like its still a pain in the ass.

You still should be able to out activate him a la MSU

Since you can't really make changes to your fleet now it's hard to help ya with tons...things that come to mind

Next time- add ruthless strategists. They help melt those flimsy imperial squadrons fast.

Do you have any spynet planets under control? If you can try to bait him into a bad deployment (hard to do when he has that many fighters) then redeploy so he has a hard time bringing BOTH isds against you at the same time. If you can slow that down so you can deal with just 1 and squadrons it's much less scary than 2 at the same time.

3rd- and this one's helped me hugely- visualize what you want your fleet to accomplish in the match. Are you trying to table him? Or are you going in to win by points objective wise or just kill enough of his fleet to eke out the win and escape. If you think you realistically only can kill one isd and some fighters before running optimize your deployment and activations to do just that. Go for the win and don't cripple your fleet at the same time.

ten numb, yavaris, torin far, Adar talon will wreak that ball of squadrons.

Nevermind.

16 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Thats wrong.

You must still follow the rule that only a 3rd of your points can be squadrons. The cap is 167 IF you are at 500pts. He is not. So his squadron cap is lower, somewhere around 155.

I believe you, but you might have to still explain it to me. When the fleet cap is 400 points I'm allowed 134 point so fighters. So when the cap is bumped up to 500 (so everyone is left at 400 out of 500 fleet point total), why wouldn't the points available for squadrons automatically go to 167? Are you saying that the squadron total can only be one third of whatever one's current fleet points are?

So, for example, if my fleet was sitting at 439 points, only 146 points of fighters?

16 hours ago, Drakkars said:

Since you can't really make changes to your fleet now it's hard to help ya with tons...things that come to mind

Next time- add ruthless strategists. They help melt those flimsy imperial squadrons fast.

Do you have any spynet planets under control? If you can try to bait him into a bad deployment (hard to do when he has that many fighters) then redeploy so he has a hard time bringing BOTH isds against you at the same time. If you can slow that down so you can deal with just 1 and squadrons it's much less scary than 2 at the same time.

3rd- and this one's helped me hugely- visualize what you want your fleet to accomplish in the match. Are you trying to table him? Or are you going in to win by points objective wise or just kill enough of his fleet to eke out the win and escape. If you think you realistically only can kill one isd and some fighters before running optimize your deployment and activations to do just that. Go for the win and don't cripple your fleet at the same time.

Good advice for future campaigns. We do have a few Spynet planets under our control thankfully so the redeployment is a good idea to try and get him to split his forces. I guess the question then would be: what ship do I redeploy to try and split his forces? My guess would be my MC80 because it can tank damage for a good while if he goes after it with the majority of his forces and can do good damage back if he ignores it.

If I go up against this fleet again before Final Assault, my goal would be to inflict as many casualties as possible. Enough so that he has to bring in his Star Destroyers or multiples of his many fighters in scarred. But the only way to accomplish that might be to table him, which runs a heavy risk of scarring a good chunk of my own fleet in the battle. Rebels are low on shipyards after a few failed defenses and I'm afraid to risk anything getting scarred with the Final Assault on the horizon.
I'm fine with hyperspace retreating away after hitting his fleet hard (if I can) if it means that swarm fleet is weaker and more vulnerable for the next battle.

9 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

Are you saying that the squadron total can only be one third of whatever one's current fleet points are?

So, for example, if my fleet was sitting at 439 points, only 146 points of fighters?

That's what Michael Gernes relayed to us when he was asked at FFG HQ.

To describe the procedure *as he sees it* (based on that ruling), Essentially, when you are expanding beyond your 400 pt fleet list, every thing you add (Ship, Upgrade or Squadron) is added individually, and in order. When you go to add a Squadron, you check to see if you have the points available to do so, and the squadron allocation. If you have the first, but not the second, you have to add to your overall fleet size, before adding the Squadron in. Essentially, you try to add the squadron, and then check to see if your fleet, after it is added, is legal. If it is, awesome, you added it. If not, then you did not add it.

He also states that, if due to Destruction, you have a situation where your Squadrons are over your limit, you do not have to delete them - you keep them - but you are unable to add any more squadrons until such time as your Squadron value is under your Squadron Cap.

He specifically stated that you do not default to a 500pt Fleet List after the first game (automatically granting you 154 of squadron allocation), and instead, it is based on your actual fleet list total value.

Seems like a very odd and overly complicated way to increase one's fleet size after the first campaign round. But if that's the rule, that's the rule.

I'll bring it up the next time we do a CC campaign. Hopefully my local playgroup will accept that ruling so that we don't get another super swarm fleet. The only reason they might not would be because it's "easier" to just autobump fleet points up to 500 and work with that.

2 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

Seems like a very odd and overly complicated way to increase one's fleet size after the first campaign round. But if that's the rule, that's the rule.

I'll bring it up the next time we do a CC campaign. Hopefully my local playgroup will accept that ruling so that we don't get another super swarm fleet. The only reason they might not would be because it's "easier" to just autobump fleet points up to 500 and work with that.

It only seems overly complicated because I had to put into words every little step, when 90% of the time, you do it, right now, on automatic pilot, when you are building a fleet

"I have a 400 fleet list and 127 points in Squadrons, and a whole bunch-o-resources.

I add a TIE Fighter. Now I have a 408 list with 135 points in Squadrons

Hey, look at that.That was a legal Addition.

I go to add another TIE fighter. Now I have a 416 list with 143 points in Squadrons. My Cap is 139. Crap. Can't add it. Delete Second TIE, go to add a ship or upgrade instead."

Definitely easier to house rule a bump to 500 as it makes checking all the math much simpler. Or go 450 turn 2 then 500 turn 3.

For what to re deploy with spynet...

I'd split your fleet on initial deployment. Mc80 off to the side going speed 1 maybe. Then if he sets his ships and fighters to go after it you move it back to your main fleet at speed 2 and try to some hard navs to get some separation from his lone ISD. Preferably you get it set up so that he has to wait for his lead ISD to get out of the way before he can even bring the follow up one near you.

14 hours ago, Derpzilla88 said:

Seems like a very odd and overly complicated way to increase one's fleet size after the first campaign round. But if that's the rule, that's the rule.

I'll bring it up the next time we do a CC campaign. Hopefully my local playgroup will accept that ruling so that we don't get another super swarm fleet. The only reason they might not would be because it's "easier" to just autobump fleet points up to 500 and work with that.

There is a relatively simple way of calculating your fighter cap at any given point. Add up the points value of everything in your fleet that isn't a squadron. Then halve this value. The number you end up with will be your current 'real' squad cap.

For example:

A 200 point fleet with no squads has a real squad cap of 100 (200/2), which makes sense, as adding 100 points of squads would make the fleet 300 points.

But a 250 point fleet with 50 points of squads would also have a real squad cap of 100 ([250-50]/2). It could add 50 points of squads before hitting its limit.

A 400 point fleet with 74 points of squads has a real squad cap of 163 points ([400-74]/2) and so could add another 89 points of squads before it'd hit the 1/3rd limit.