I enjoy talk "around the water cooler", beefing about whatever is the topic at hand be it Brady's deflate gate (old I know), the plot holes in the latest movie, or the latest dog of a micro-brew coming out of a local brewery. This is what forums are basically, a way to have discussions that interest us. In this case, our favorite Star Wars game that we all love.

I think the most recent beef is clearly centered on Scum due to their great showings and squads in mass for a great part of a year. FFG has nerfed some of their brightest stars, but the beef goes on. The latest thread by @AllWingsStandyingBy titled "Does Mindlik need a nerf?" is a good one and still going strong. I think perhaps the great data given by contributors like @Ram like this shed some light:

Brazil: Loads of mindlinks, 3 in T8 , 2017-04-01
Italy: Mindlink won , not a lot of mindlinks otherwise, 2017-03-26
Hoth System Open 2017: Quite a few mindlinks, 2 in T8 , 2017-03-25
Naboo Open 2017: Three mindlinks 1 in T4 , 2017-03-19
Tatooine System Open: Lots of mindlink, 3 in T4 , 2017-03-18

However, I think the real devil is in the details. Has anyone parsed out whether or not the Jumpmaster was the driver in these lists or not?

I speculate it was.......

I think you clicked "New Post" when you meant to click "Submit Reply"

33 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I think you clicked "New Post" when you meant to click "Submit Reply"

Agree completely, was just thinking this and then saw your perfect reply.

20 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

...

Maybe this will help you. Copy paste from another topic.

I did some legwork and analysed all the winning lists since the FAQ, in tournaments with 20+ people (just a random number, nothing special to back it up).

19: Number of tournaments
Victorious scums list:
6: Non-mindlinked Scums
3: Triple- and Double-mindlinked jumps
2: Other mindlinked scums (including parattani), with 0 or 1 jumpmaster.

I will put it in capitals, to break a common myth and misconception:

THERE IS MORE NON-MINDLINKED SCUM LISTS WINNING TOURNAMENTS THAN MINDLINKED.

On top of that: 3/5 of the mindlink lists are containing two or three jumpmasters, and would be OP even without the mindlinks.

26 minutes ago, Voitek said:

Maybe this will help you. Copy paste from another topic.

I did some legwork and analysed all the winning lists since the FAQ, in tournaments with 20+ people (just a random number, nothing special to back it up).

19: Number of tournaments
Victorious scums list:
6: Non-mindlinked Scums
3: Triple- and Double-mindlinked jumps
2: Other mindlinked scums (including parattani), with 0 or 1 jumpmaster.

I will put it in capitals, to break a common myth and misconception:

THERE IS MORE NON-MINDLINKED SCUM LISTS WINNING TOURNAMENTS THAN MINDLINKED.

On top of that: 3/5 of the mindlink lists are containing two or three jumpmasters, and would be OP even without the mindlinks.

That's what I kinda was thinking....it's once again the Jumpmaster I'll wager that's making Mindlink a target....

the Jumpmaster has an AMAZING cloaking device; it causes beef by players and nerfing by designers to hit orbiting mechanics, but leave the OP base ship alone.

Just now, clanofwolves said:

That's what I kinda was thinking....it's once again the Jumpmaster I'll wager that's making Mindlink a target....

the Jumpmaster has an AMAZING cloaking device; it causes beef by players and nerfing by designers to hit orbiting mechanics, but leave the OP base ship alone.

Well, there are multiple shouts for nerf for Jumpmasters, but the biggest FFG's mistake is their nerfing policy. They dont touch point costs and dials. But they are happy to change card wordings and "interpretations".

Hence, because Jumpmasters, the following cards got nerf: Deadeye, R4 Agromech, Zuckuss. The only "direct" jump nerf so far was manaroo... but Jumps cannot be nerfed like that.

And to be honest, I can understand that a little. They dont want people who are showing up on a tournament, not knowing latest FAQs, to not be able to play. Increasing jumpmasters point cost could cause that. As would releasing whole new dials for jumps. But amending some wording changes to zuckuss or manaroo will not.

1 minute ago, Voitek said:

They dont want people who are showing up on a tournament, not knowing latest FAQs, to not be able to play.

I've seen this justification a lot, and I just don't buy it. A new player could turn up with Deadeye on large ships and not be able to play. A new player could turn up with a triple-tactician Party Bus and not be able to play. Etc.

ANY errata risks a new player turning up with the errated thing in his list illegally and not being able to play. Any form of pen-and-ink errata risks this, be it to legality, restrictions, point costs, or just plain old functionality. If you'd been practicing for months with palp/aces and turned up to a tourney not knowing about the new errata, you might be able to play but you probably wouldn't do very well.

And even then, it's not like people don't turn up to tourneys with illegal lists anyway, whether on purpose or by accident.

If you're attending a tournament, it's your responsibility to figure out if there are any errata, and your responsibility to not be a jerk if you find out you missed something.

It's not like FFG make their errata secret or difficult to access. I can download the thing on my phone with about a minute's notice.

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I've seen this justification a lot, and I just don't buy it. A new player could turn up with Deadeye on large ships and not be able to play. A new player could turn up with a triple-tactician Party Bus and not be able to play. Etc.

ANY errata risks a new player turning up with the errated thing in his list illegally and not being able to play. Any form of pen-and-ink errata risks this, be it to legality, restrictions, point costs, or just plain old functionality. If you'd been practicing for months with palp/aces and turned up to a tourney not knowing about the new errata, you might be able to play but you probably wouldn't do very well.

And even then, it's not like people don't turn up to tourneys with illegal lists anyway, whether on purpose or by accident.

If you're attending a tournament, it's your responsibility to figure out if there are any errata, and your responsibility to not be a jerk if you find out you missed something.

It's not like FFG make their errata secret or difficult to access. I can download the thing on my phone with about a minute's notice.

With deadeye, you might just be asked to take a different 1-point EPT, or replace all deadeyes with adaptability/trickshot/score to settle and then put this 3 points into a random other upgrade. Still a better situation than showing up with a ships with outdated dials or with ships being 1-2-3 points more expensive than you thought they are (imagine new point cost for jumps and a new dial).

From my perspective, it's very simple. They should leave jumps as they are and just f***ng fix other scum ships. With an actual fixes, because we can cearly see scyks fix was not enough (and light scyk title isn't likely to help here). Something similar to the fixed X7 title for Starvipers would be a great start (-2 points, remove torpedo slot, after executing speed 1-2 maneuver, if you didnt bump, you can make a gree boost or barrel roll action...). But they clearly are trying to nerf all the scum ships into oblivion instead.

I don't think they could ever nerf a printed dial in any meaningful way, to be honest. In that one instance it's just too easy to cheat, not to mention that they'd have to offer replacements or suffer fairly major outcry. But they can trivially nerf point values or particularly slots - errating the EPT off the scout wouldn't ever make a list outright illegal - you just leave the EPT out.

If you fix all the other scum ships to make them as efficient as the jump, you ALSO need to fix EVERY other ship in the game to make them as efficient as the Jump as well. Better to fix the Jump.

Jumps are underpowered, only 2 red dice? Useless. It would take an incredible player to win a game with a Jumpmaster in their list, especially if they were hamstrung by being forced to use Attani Mindlink on all their ships.

Real men play scum.

1 minute ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Jumps are underpowered, only 2 red dice? Useless. It would take an incredible player to win a game with a Jumpmaster in their list, especially if they were hamstrung by being forced to use Attani Mindlink on all their ships.

Real men play scum.

Yeah I agree, I reckon the "Punishing One" title should work like mindlink - 1 point, non unique, but must be taken on all ships. Maybe then scums would be able to actually be competitive in the meta!

What does complaining about a ship or upgrade being overpowered/underpowered accomplish? Does it help you win more games?

Nothing.

What does complaining about people complaining accomplish?

2 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Nothing.

What does complaining about people complaining accomplish?

I own stock in Morton.

It's a point that is often made facetiously but I think it's a good one: if you don't want to talk about people complaining about ships then what DO you want to talk about?

Start a thread about that and see who wants to join in. It's not like we're overloaded with an array of wonderful strategy/tactics topics to comment on but which are being buried by complaints threads. How to build a list, how to deploy, approaches to asteroids, great uses for Co-ordinate, how to use Ship X, favourite builds for Pilot Y... I don't see any of those threads around here?

So... what DO you want to talk about? Be the change you want.

7 minutes ago, DerekT said:

What does complaining about a ship or upgrade being overpowered/underpowered accomplish? Does it help you win more games?

It kills time.

Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

w hat DO you want to talk about? Be the change you want.

This too - I've been looking out for interesting tactical decision points in my Vassal games recently with the goal of posting a couple of those 'what would you do in this situation' type threads, because I really enjoy them when they come up, but I've just not really happened across any tactically interesting moments over the last few weeks.

2 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

It's a point that is often made facetiously but I think it's a good one: if you don't want to talk about people complaining about ships then what DO you want to talk about?

Start a thread about that and see who wants to join in. It's not like we're overloaded with an array of wonderful strategy/tactics topics to comment on but which are being buried by complaints threads. How to build a list, how to deploy, approaches to asteroids, great uses for Co-ordinate, how to use Ship X, favourite builds for Pilot Y... I don't see any of those threads around here?

So... what DO you want to talk about? Be the change you want.

Git gud.