49 minutes ago, FangedChicken said:

You have to be in the mobile arc of a large base ship with low pilot skill and at range 1 to 2.

Even with a 1 point EPT and a single upgrade, she comes in at 40 points. What do you expect?

You basically just wrote out a long explanation of power creep. It's not overpowered unless it's significantly more powerful than the rest of the metagame. A few times throughout the history of the game, this has come up. Namely the cloaking nerf, and deadeye scouts.

Frankly, I don't know what you hope to achieve from these complaints. As new ships and mechanics and combinations come into play, new combos and optimal ways to play will appear. It's part of the lifecycle of any competitive game.

I agree with you that everything that's currently overpowered is equally overpowered and that the meta is balanced. And that since everything is overpowered, nothing is overpowered. I agree.

I'm answering the OP's topic, about why Scum is the target of jealousy and disdain. It's because super offense is wrongly singled out even when super defense is just as good. This is because super offense wins games in sudden, overt ways while super defense tends to take longer to win.

You also mentioned Attani, which comes in the JM5K box.

Its not just the jm5k thats the issue, the entire BOX is an issue. Tel is the only "tame" thing thats introduced in that box that isnt ridiculously broken, and even he's powerful just horribly overshadowed. The few insanely OP builds scum can pull off w/o a JM5K still uses cards from it.

I just think Scum's a bit lame as a faction thematically.

Part of the appeal of X-wing for me has always been the backdrop of the Galactic Civil War and the Rebels vs Empire duality. But now a rather large percentage of your opponents are just random jerks flying ugly, generic Sci-fi looking ships.

I preferred what FFG did in Armada, where all the iconic Scum and Villainy stuff was just divvied up between the Empire and Rebels, which avoided them having to add all the **** filler stuff like the Kihraxz and Scyk.

That's just me though.

38 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

You also mentioned Attani, which comes in the JM5K box.

Its not just the jm5k thats the issue, the entire BOX is an issue. Tel is the only "tame" thing thats introduced in that box that isnt ridiculously broken, and even he's powerful just horribly overshadowed. The few insanely OP builds scum can pull off w/o a JM5K still uses cards from it.

Attanni has nothing to do with the Jumpmaster expansion. It could have come with the Starviper and Attanni would still be broken(/just as broken as everything else so therefore not broken).

The protectorate and Lancer are both wave 9 ships. What made Attanni top tier were the Lancer and Protectorate. Attanni Mindlink without Parattanni/Oldfennaroo isn't particularly dominant.

So it's not Attanni in a vacuum. Attanni on wave 8 or older ships is just okay.

This is just hating on the Jumpmaster just to hate on the Jumpmaster at this point. The problem builds with them have been addressed, and now you've moved on to hating the whole expansion. If you think Attanni is a problem and you want it addressed, that's fine. It's a separate issue from the problems with the Jumpmaster, which have been addressed IMHO.

7 hours ago, CRCL said:

I just think Scum's a bit lame as a faction thematically.

Part of the appeal of X-wing for me has always been the backdrop of the Galactic Civil War and the Rebels vs Empire duality. But now a rather large percentage of your opponents are just random jerks flying ugly, generic Sci-fi looking ships.

I preferred what FFG did in Armada, where all the iconic Scum and Villainy stuff was just divvied up between the Empire and Rebels, which avoided them having to add all the **** filler stuff like the Kihraxz and Scyk.

That's just me though.

This is the very reason why I dont play Armada but I do love my scums in X-wing. I could never feel sympathetic to the good guys... or the bad guys either - mercenaries of all sorts were always my choice whenever possible (in good ol' RPG times), Jyn Odan is my character of choice for Imperial assault (unless I play with Jabba's scums as the bad guys)...

If not the scum faction, I would never even consider starting with X-wing.

6 hours ago, CRCL said:

I just think Scum's a bit lame as a faction thematically.

Part of the appeal of X-wing for me has always been the backdrop of the Galactic Civil War and the Rebels vs Empire duality.

But you get to be a space pirate. In Star Wars.

54 minutes ago, Xerandar said:

But you get to be a space pirate. In Star Wars.

That's not actually a thing in Star Wars. All of the movies revolve around the Empire and the people rebelling against them.

There is no piracy in Star Wars. Han doesn't actually smuggle anything, all the bounty hunters besides for Boba Fett are just briefly shown for a few seconds, and even Boba Fett only has a few lines and falls into the sarlacc pit like a little *****.

Space Pirates in Star Wars is an EU thing.

32 minutes ago, Turbo Toker said:

Space Pirates in Star Wars is an EU thing.

Nothing wrong with the EU. EU kept Star Wars alive for 15 years.

Wouldn't have any of the things we have now if it weren't for the EU.

I don't like a lot of the Scum faction ships because they are ugly, and are all mostly EU, which holds zero allure for me. I like the Firespray, because it was in ESB. It's a shame that the most iconic scum ship kinda sucks but the stupid looking toilet seat is the main scum ship nowadays.

Oh you know the jank filler stuff will end up in Armada eventually, its just not there yet since they introduce them in pairs 4 at a time per faction so they had PLENTY to work with before delving into those oddball ships.

More than likely the next Armada squadron release will be Rogues and Villians2, only hopefully divided up between the factions so we dont have the same issue we did last time of getting 1 of each ship, 4 per faction, 8 ships total for each box. If they release that again i fully expect the kfighter, scyk, myst hunter, and/or protectorate to pop up. Other than flatout dividing them up though no idea what would dictate who got what.

I think it would have been interesting to have scum be a mercenary faction like others have suggested already. LOT of stuff probably wouldnt have existed though, in fact they'd probably have a lot less ships too since they wouldnt be worried about filling out a new faction.

2 hours ago, Turbo Toker said:

That's not actually a thing in Star Wars. All of the movies revolve around the Empire and the people rebelling against them.

There is no piracy in Star Wars. Han doesn't actually smuggle anything, all the bounty hunters besides for Boba Fett are just briefly shown for a few seconds, and even Boba Fett only has a few lines and falls into the sarlacc pit like a little *****.

Space Pirates in Star Wars is an EU thing.

Huh? So no characters are seen eating in Star Wars; ergo no one eats in Star Wars?

But wait, I hear you say, what about Jabba? The same Jabba who helps the Rebels fight against the Empire. What about Jabba indeed.

Given that the Empire couldn't stop the rebels building a fleet it stands to reason that piracy exists too.

On 2017-04-10 at 6:46 AM, Izikial said:

Hi. Just a talking point.

Why do people dislike scum and want to remove there things. Fyi im a scum player. Just intrested in the discussion.

Firstly what i have seen said

X card is two strong

Scum shouldnt exsist for x reason

X ship was in my faction in lore

Secondly why i think this is

So first of we obviously have the argument of "they didnt exist at the begining (and possibly shouldnt now)" this is people jelious that a ship that could have gone to one of the vetern factions has gone to scum and they think they should have it. This has far reaching effects on things such as the scum faction still finding its feet.

"Its to strong" things such as peratani and u boats got continualy lambasted. Scum have been hit alot recently with the nerf bat and to be honest they needed it. But the rebel and imp players dont like scum having any competative elements reble regen and sabin bombing are insane and anoying but because they were there from the start or went under the radar so long people seem to have the impression that that means thay cant be unbalanced. As its all they have. Similarly with impirial players of you try and say something they have is a bit to good they role out the tie bomber and say we have to live with this ergo your argument is invalid. I would say especialy when compaird to rebles. Scum has the most ships considerd "unplayable" (i say considerd. I know there is alot of special butterflys who got x ship to work) firespray, starviper, khirax, scyk, quad. So in surmation of this point when scum dose get something strong because as with the faction it is a new thing people rail against it and say its to good. The only reason this perception exists is because players have figured out the counters to the super strong imp and reb lists but with scum still looking to find its footing players dont know what to do and just give up and turn to the forum. I think the designers have noticed Scum dont have any consistently avreage and reliable squads. And are trying to make this possible but what they come up with is shot down by the player base.

"Scum are a gimick faction". I mean this in all seriousness. And not to slander them. Its the known paradigm that rebles are tough and regen, Imps are high risk high reward and scum are masters of the one time trick faction. This leads scum to being a good alpha faction as everything they have only works once anyway. This up front power can make people take a dislikeing to the faction instantly as there first exposure to the faction is there 38 pt ship gone on turn two. The other side of the coin being that if they actualy play on they will notice the scum ships considerably weeker after ther tricks have gone.

"X scum thing has been nerfed now just nerf x" this is a big issue on the forums. Effectifly people continualy ask for scum to be nerfed into irrelevance. When ever scum start having a meta list everyone asks for it to be nerfed. The reason you have the boring thug life list is cus you asked for everything else to be nerfed and its what they have left. There are also people asking for mind link nerfs. But if you take that and tlt scum is no longer playable

So. I like scum. I find them Fun and ironicly find them the easiest faction to beat (a referance back to the whole learning the counters idea) please discuss.

Just an after thought i do get a little perterbed when podcasts will list of the tornimant winning lists and out of about 8 you have 1 reble jank, 1 miranda dash, 1 trip k, 1 coman wealth ace, 1 palp defenders, 1 rac wisper, 1 kath bossk, 1 bro bots. But as there reading them of they are happy about the impa and rebs doing well but then seem anouyed that scum was competative. This is generic to lots of podcasts

And then we have 13 scums in the top 16 of the last open. Everything is perfectly balanced...

3 hours ago, Turbo Toker said:

That's not actually a thing in Star Wars. All of the movies revolve around the Empire and the people rebelling against them.

There is no piracy in Star Wars. Han doesn't actually smuggle anything, all the bounty hunters besides for Boba Fett are just briefly shown for a few seconds, and even Boba Fett only has a few lines and falls into the sarlacc pit like a little *****.

Space Pirates in Star Wars is an EU thing.

As someone who grew up with just as much of the EU as the original movies, I count a lot of those stories as just as important as the movies for building my appreciation for the brand. And now, you are telling me some characters I love is invalid because you say so? Not so strong an argument. Plus, the Clone Wars cartoon is canon, and there is a prominent space pirate named Hondo in it.

7 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Plus, the Clone Wars cartoon is canon, and there is a prominent space pirate named Hondo in it.

Not to mention in Empire, when Lando literally refers to Han as a pirate. The best movie of the lot has a direct reference in it.