Hi. Just a talking point.

Why do people dislike scum and want to remove there things. Fyi im a scum player. Just intrested in the discussion.

Firstly what i have seen said

X card is two strong

Scum shouldnt exsist for x reason

X ship was in my faction in lore

Secondly why i think this is

So first of we obviously have the argument of "they didnt exist at the begining (and possibly shouldnt now)" this is people jelious that a ship that could have gone to one of the vetern factions has gone to scum and they think they should have it. This has far reaching effects on things such as the scum faction still finding its feet.

"Its to strong" things such as peratani and u boats got continualy lambasted. Scum have been hit alot recently with the nerf bat and to be honest they needed it. But the rebel and imp players dont like scum having any competative elements reble regen and sabin bombing are insane and anoying but because they were there from the start or went under the radar so long people seem to have the impression that that means thay cant be unbalanced. As its all they have. Similarly with impirial players of you try and say something they have is a bit to good they role out the tie bomber and say we have to live with this ergo your argument is invalid. I would say especialy when compaird to rebles. Scum has the most ships considerd "unplayable" (i say considerd. I know there is alot of special butterflys who got x ship to work) firespray, starviper, khirax, scyk, quad. So in surmation of this point when scum dose get something strong because as with the faction it is a new thing people rail against it and say its to good. The only reason this perception exists is because players have figured out the counters to the super strong imp and reb lists but with scum still looking to find its footing players dont know what to do and just give up and turn to the forum. I think the designers have noticed Scum dont have any consistently avreage and reliable squads. And are trying to make this possible but what they come up with is shot down by the player base.

"Scum are a gimick faction". I mean this in all seriousness. And not to slander them. Its the known paradigm that rebles are tough and regen, Imps are high risk high reward and scum are masters of the one time trick faction. This leads scum to being a good alpha faction as everything they have only works once anyway. This up front power can make people take a dislikeing to the faction instantly as there first exposure to the faction is there 38 pt ship gone on turn two. The other side of the coin being that if they actualy play on they will notice the scum ships considerably weeker after ther tricks have gone.

"X scum thing has been nerfed now just nerf x" this is a big issue on the forums. Effectifly people continualy ask for scum to be nerfed into irrelevance. When ever scum start having a meta list everyone asks for it to be nerfed. The reason you have the boring thug life list is cus you asked for everything else to be nerfed and its what they have left. There are also people asking for mind link nerfs. But if you take that and tlt scum is no longer playable

So. I like scum. I find them Fun and ironicly find them the easiest faction to beat (a referance back to the whole learning the counters idea) please discuss.

Just an after thought i do get a little perterbed when podcasts will list of the tornimant winning lists and out of about 8 you have 1 reble jank, 1 miranda dash, 1 trip k, 1 coman wealth ace, 1 palp defenders, 1 rac wisper, 1 kath bossk, 1 bro bots. But as there reading them of they are happy about the impa and rebs doing well but then seem anouyed that scum was competative. This is generic to lots of podcasts

I don't disdain S&V, and I only think they need to lose one toy - the Jumpmaster. It's undercosted, has a broken dial and a full suite of upgrade options. It's been directly nerfed three times but is still going strong.

its not the only option Scum have going for them but it's the one that frustrates me the most.

Edit - people remark on the progress of Rebels in the meta as they've been out of it for a year - it's been mostly Dengar or Manaroo based Scum placing in tournaments with a few palp aces. Of course those of us who don't p,at those lists are going to revel in something different doing well!

The recent season was dominated by Scum as a faction. Fangaroo, double ship lists of many kinds, Dengaroo and the infamous Parattani. Imperials did quite well too, in comparison to Rebels, who were forced out into a few key builds involving Ks and Ghosts (Heragator, triple Ks, Miranda lists, etc). Imperials, likewise, were getting squished into defender-centred lists in response to the Scum/rebel bomber meta.

Then lo! The Nerfbat was brought out, dusted off, and liberally applied to Scum and Imperial mainstays.

Where are we now? Well, Rebels are definitely back, baby. But I think Scum are still pretty much the top faction, with some awesome pilots, the most point efficient swiss-army-knife-ship in the game, the most point efficient ace in the game, and probably the best ept in the game. That's not even mentioning things like the Shadowcaster, the new Scyks (which will actually be pretty tasty), the top tlt lists, etc. Is this a problem? I don't think so. I like Scum as a faction, and no doubt the nerfbat should be put back up on the pedastal while the game evens out. But none of that really changes the fact that Scum is still top faction, has been top faction for a while and top factions tends to get moaned about a bit. Consider it the price of success.

I don't know that there is disdain for scum as a faction? They've got some very strong ships and mechanics but that's kind of as a direct result for how rubbish they used to be.

Always makes me chuckle when single faction players automatically assume that any criticism of their faction comes from a place of jealousy from opposing faction's players.

People don't dislike Scum. People dislike that there are 3 large based ships in the game with ridiculously good dials and all 3 of them are in a single faction. And that one of those has access to every upgrade under the twin suns despite being only PS3 and costing a mere 25 points.

Trouble is once you start releasing the odd ship that's really, really good, it's not as simple as just giving another faction an equally good ship. Because the more OP ships you release, the further it pushes other ships away from consideration. Then any "fixes" become harder to implement without either being massively OP, or incredibly lacklustre compared to what's already available.

tl;dr the Scout was a mistake. It threw the game out of balance. People just want the balance back.

I don't as much dislike the Scum faction as it is, I dislike Imperials not having their own unique host of upgrades, as well as lacking in otherwise available tools like turrets (until now anyways)

This feeling sometimes manifests as disdain, as I've a hard time dealing with people when they complain about their faction lacking something. I often hear how scum players say that they have very few available and useful ships to them... and truth to be told, yes, there are some sub-par ships in the faction... but so are in the Empire and the Rebellion.

For crying out loud, the Lambda, not by any stretch of the imagination a good ship, is often praised by its jousting efficiency. For a mere 21 points you get an array of amazing stats... and then Scum gets the Scurrg. Only from what we know so far, it is a much better ship, with the same stats, a barrel roll, and a turnaround maneuver. Not to mention it's impressive upgrade bar. The Scurrg literally has everything that made the Lambda good, expanded by better maneuverability. For 3 more points.

And people from this faction have the audacity to complain. This faction has EVERYTHING. Best Ace in the game, amazing 1 point crew options, access to the cloak action, amazing large ships, a unique upgrade, only available to them... So yeah... that is... annoying.

SCUM made X-WING a STAR WARS Game.

I agree with most sensible players. Scum's first ships were "meh" and FFG wanted to give them a boost and instead gave them lots of OP: Jumpmaster being the king of the OP hill, it's akin to the TIE Phantom in its power. The nerfbats have adjusted a few things surrounding that power base, but the ship itself remains unscathed and therefore the best ship to start a wining squad with.

....that's really the rub, it's not the faction, it's the core design of the Jumpmaster. You either fly it and love it, or fly against it and loath it.

I'm sure that there was a deliberate decision with Wave 8/9 Scum stuff to err on the side of boldness. If they weren't sure how good it was they'd go with the stronger option, to avoid just another 12-18 months of Scum being only Brobots and Y-Wings.

1 hour ago, Joe Boss Red Seven said:

SCUM made X-WING a STAR WARS Game.

TRUTH!!!

I started playing somewhere around Wave VI and VII and bought S&V exclusively after getting the TFA Core. It was mostly small ships, too, with Most Wanted leading the way. First large ships was an Aggressor. Those one-time tricks made it fun to play when the dice went my way, but after that if I didn't fly my pants off, I was going down. Fun is in the eye of the beholder because one of the big reasons I like this game is that losing, for the most part, doesn't spoil the fun. But losing to triple Jumpmasters is not fun, so I think that's a big reason some people are less than fond of Scum.

OTOH, they're called Scum for a reason, right?

2 hours ago, Stevey86 said:

People dislike that there are 3 large based ships in the game with ridiculously good dials and all 3 of them are in a single faction.

Technically speaking this is untrue.

(YT-1300 or YT-2400) + Kanan Jarrus is the large ship with the best dial, since every single of it's maneuver is green, and those ships have access to almost every single maneuver in the game (except for 5 straight, 3-hard for falcon and the K/Talon/Sloops)

17 minutes ago, Voitek said:

Technically speaking this is untrue.

(YT-1300 or YT-2400) + Kanan Jarrus is the large ship with the best dial, since every single of it's maneuver is green, and those ships have access to almost every single maneuver in the game (except for 5 straight, 3-hard for falcon and the K/Talon/Sloops)

Got to sacrifice a crew slot for it though. And you only get one of those on the 24.

And Y-Wings have one of the best dials as well, because R2 Astromech. Nerf Y-Wings!

What BS.

1 minute ago, Stay On The Leader said:

And Y-Wings have one of the best dials as well, because R2 Astromech. Nerf Y-Wings!

What BS.

Analysing ships without looking at potential combos is even bigger bull. And guss what: both of those YT's are extensively in use with "Conan" Jarrus!

6 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

Got to sacrifice a crew slot for it though. And you only get one of those on the 24.

Why "sacrifice"? Look just how often Kanan is being put on those two ships (ALL THE TIME!). He is currently one of the best crewmember in the game (probably in line with Dengar). It's not sacrifice, it's usng your slot to fit with the best upgrade available.

Just now, Voitek said:

Why "sacrifice"? Look just how often Kanan is being put on those two ships (ALL THE TIME!). He is currently one of the best crewmember in the game (probably in line with Dengar). It's not sacrifice, it's usng your slot to fit with the best upgrade available.

The point is it's already built into the IG, Lancer and JM5K. You don't have to use one of your upgrade slots to give it a better dial.

And Rey or Kyle would be infinitely better options in that slot if the dial had the amount of greens that the Scum one do. Which is why I always pick LW/Pred and Rey over PTL Kanan on Dash.

Because their faction is rather imbalanced in both ways

The same faction that has the Scyk, StarViper, MystHunter, and slightly better but still trash Firesprays also has THE best crew in the game (with Dengar being the only one that actually feels appropriately costed, ironically), a two rather fat and super agile large base ships that are powerhouses, and some outright broken abilities.

Basically, burnt fishsticks your kid made that are still partially frozen on the inside somehow and the kid thinks they even out that way. Scum really feel like they have no sense of order in their schemes, they both get laughably pathetic stuff AND obscenely overpowered stuff...Tugboat is probably the only thing they got thats largely "meh" and neither good or bad.

I never noticed this until i started getting scum myself. Normally i dont even use large base ships, their base displacement bugs me and gets me into trouble. But it feels like 90% of the lists w/o a large base is just doomed to fail barring some incredible luck or Protectorate spam, even in a casual setting. Flipside, once i put the large base in there, suddenly it feels like a hyper competitive list. And i HATE that kind of balance lol

9 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

The point is it's already built into the IG, Lancer and JM5K. You don't have to use one of your upgrade slots to give it a better dial.

And Rey or Kyle would be infinitely better options in that slot if the dial had the amount of greens that the Scum one do. Which is why I always pick LW/Pred and Rey over PTL Kanan on Dash.

That is one perspective and it's valid.

The other is that YT-2400 build with PTL, Kanan and Engine Upgrade builds up to an extremely versatile and slippery ship, that is very difficult to catch, can boost+barrel roll if necessary, or just to one of those actions to arc dodge and the second one get some dice modifications. I can undersand that you prefer LW/Rey build, but that doesnt change the fact that PTL/Kanan build is equally, if not more powerful.

And Jumpmaster is hardly viable with PTL because it's greens are very predictable. And guess what, if you want to mitigate it A LITTLE, you have to "sacrifice" a slot for unhinged astromech (who will still only give you green 3 straight and bank), unlike Kanan who will turn EVERYTHING green.

While I agree Jumpamsters are very powerful ships, I disagree they are actually better than Outrider at all. The only reason why Dash is not in every rebel list is because Rebels have varius powerful builds (Dash/Rey/HgostPhantom+wingman, Miranda+stuff), while Scums - if you only look at tier 1 builds - have jumps... and jumps, sometimes Lancers. Well okay, some people (like myself) still fly Fenn extensively, but the dominance of bombers slowly forces me not to use him anymore.

6 minutes ago, Voitek said:

And Jumpmaster is hardly viable with PTL because it's greens are very predictable. And guess what, if you want to mitigate it A LITTLE, you have to "sacrifice" a slot for unhinged astromech

I won a tournament with that actually, something I couldn't manage with PTL Dash.

9 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

I won a tournament with that actually, something I couldn't manage with PTL Dash.

Then I can understand your love

My point is: both LW/Rey and PTL/Kanan/EU are very strong and powerful, with numerous tournaments won by both of those builds.

I've always wondered how the game would look if, instead of being a separate faction, Scum were neutral and could be used by Rebels or Imperials. Obviously the ships we got would have been radically different, since the faction wouldn't have had to survive on its own, and would have had to take into account possibly interactions with existing Rebel and Imperial pilots.

1 minute ago, DailyRich said:

I've always wondered how the game would look if, instead of being a separate faction, Scum were neutral and could be used by Rebels or Imperials. Obviously the ships we got would have been radically different, since the faction wouldn't have had to survive on its own, and would have had to take into account possibly interactions with existing Rebel and Imperial pilots.

Different, that's for sure

6 minutes ago, DailyRich said:

I've always wondered how the game would look if, instead of being a separate faction, Scum were neutral and could be used by Rebels or Imperials. Obviously the ships we got would have been radically different, since the faction wouldn't have had to survive on its own, and would have had to take into account possibly interactions with existing Rebel and Imperial pilots.

I would definitely have preferred Scum to be "Crime Syndicates", and then have all the bounty hunters be hireable.

The only thing bad about Scum & Villainy is their name. It's a stupid name for a faction, I don't care if it's a line right from the movies.

The faction should have been called Freelancers like it was in Star Wars Galaxies.

I wasnt trying to offend anyone or anything. I spend a bit of time on hear and see a good number of nerf x scum card/ship and bearly see anything for the othere factions. If you nerf the few good scum options it dose leev scum in a realy bad place. It definalty feels like there an annoyance to the vets who just want to play 7 ties generics and 4 x wing generics in a joust of cus thats star wars darn it