2 hours ago, Marinealver said:

No, blocking is just fine, learn2play lol. As for blocking if that is what made you left the game there are now hundreds of ways to mitigate blocking from advanced sensors to upgrades that let you take an action to free action. But if you have issues with people getting in your way in Armada then How do you play a game? That is like arguing in Go when someone put a piece where you want to put your piece. Of course your opponent meant to put it their. It is a good posistion and it is better to those who get there first!

It is called strategy, and complaining about it on the forums is poor strategy indeed.

That was the point I was making Marinealver... I just remember you being over on the X-Wing forums when I used to frequent them more often. Agree entirely with the above. I'm a TIE Swarm player so blocking for me was not just a viable tactic but a necessary strategy. While I don't believe there are any ships in Armada that rely on ramming, it is a more than valid tactic (as evidenced in the real world!) and ryanabt shouldn't feel bad about doing it.

For anyone who thematically objects to ramming; What do you do when facing an Assault Frigate/MC80 Ackbar line?

@Undeadguy, ET Glads isnt good. The ramming rules only become one sided when you add Reinforced Blast Doors. Try Arqs instead.

And to temper Boarding.

Sure you can exhaust defence tokens at short range. Though why? Why are you at short range if you arent geared up to knock 6 black dice in? Its an entirely useless card.

16 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

And to temper Boarding.

Sure you can exhaust defence tokens at short range. Though why? Why are you at short range if you arent geared up to knock 6 black dice in? Its an entirely useless card.

If you can outbid your opponent, it's not useless. If you want to make Avenger a thing, put it on an ISD-1 and give yourself a 7-10ish point bid. There's a LOT of ships that don't want to be in the front arc of that, and you force your opponent to redo their whole plan. Oh, you have to sail your MC30 into SIDE arc to not get killed top of the next turn, or what if that Avenger hits an MC80 there? There's a lot you CAN do with it, it just requires a new type of list building.

5 minutes ago, geek19 said:

If you can outbid your opponent, it's not useless. If you want to make Avenger a thing, put it on an ISD-1 and give yourself a 7-10ish point bid. There's a LOT of ships that don't want to be in the front arc of that, and you force your opponent to redo their whole plan. Oh, you have to sail your MC30 into SIDE arc to not get killed top of the next turn, or what if that Avenger hits an MC80 there? There's a lot you CAN do with it, it just requires a new type of list building.

Nope.

It requires Avenger.

21 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

For anyone who thematically objects to ramming; What do you do when facing an Assault Frigate/MC80 Ackbar line?

@Undeadguy, ET Glads isnt good. The ramming rules only become one sided when you add Reinforced Blast Doors. Try Arqs instead.

I think a lot of the complaints are coming from the fact that it takes a lot of what makes Rieekan "good" (the fact that you have to ram my dead ships and take damage, punishing YOU for killing MY stuff, even AFTER they go and fire at YOU) and makes it even worse. I can't prevent RAM damage, and with ET and a workable speed 4, they can get to Speed 5, pulling that same Demo issue of "going from outside my attack ability to hitting me with it." Put that on a base 44 point ship that can be spammed and I understand the frustration.

I don't personally think Rieekan needs a nerf because of this, though. As for actual worries about ramming, let's see what the titles do on the Hammerheads, especially since they can't take ET. They sure will ram, (and I played a guy at Adepticon who hated ramming so much and it ruined the game for him and blah blah blah tilt tilt tilt), but let's see what we do before Armada is dead again. This time from Ram Damage! Ramage?

13 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Your argument is based on Accident versus Design.

Sure, Vader rerolls dice. OE rerolls Dice.... Surely, they must have considered those possibilities when they wrote the rule "You can reroll a reroll".

If that is "believable", why is it un-belivable that its by design that Engine Techs is a Maneuver, that ends in a ram, that can be re-done as a ram? Can that not be by design? Can that not be the very intention of it?

I doubt any of us have any direct evidence that these things are accidental, rather than by design (and consequently, the other way around)...

The difference is the intent of the upgrades. FFG clearly considered rerolling rerolls since their is a rule about it. But did they consider an ET ram? Probably, but that's not my point.

A Rieekan ET swarm list deals damage by circumnavigating a significant portion of the game (setting up arcs and rolling dice). Multiple upgrades across multiple upgrade slots are based around manipulating (adding dice, rerolling dice, modding dice) and every ship and squadron are equipped with dice.

At what point should we question if the game is designed to be played like this?

It only takes 4 ET rams to drop an MC80. And with 8 activations, it's not hard to draw the MC80 out. The list certainly benefits from using dice which makes it all the more frustrating that it exists.

1 minute ago, Ginkapo said:

Nope.

It requires Avenger.

Shh don't tell the Imperials! We can get them to keep bringing it!

"Oh I'm so terrified of Avenger, please don't throw me in that Briar Patch near it!"

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

CRambo90s do not require Rieekan.

Reinforced blast doors means the corvette no longer dies.

Imagine a Jerjerod ISD II Avenger with a boarding party and leading shots...that is utterly horrifying.

30 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

@Undeadguy, ET Glads isnt good. The ramming rules only become one sided when you add Reinforced Blast Doors. Try Arqs instead.

Idk they seem pretty good when I'm crushing flotillas at the end of the game, or ramming ships to finish them off.

And just because I don't play the same way you do does not invalidate the effectiveness of my fleets. Because IMO, Arqs with ET and RBD is a waste of points. Why send a ship that wants to stay at long range in to ram something? Not to mention the waste of points.

I'm 50% on facing the Cr90Ram list at this point. 6-5 and 5-6, effectively. So, again, anecdotally, myself, I can't see it becoming a problem.

I won't see it in casual games, because basically - its a casual game...

I won't see it in tournament games, because its already been shown - at least in my area - to be partially self-defeating. It wins, but it doesn't win big enough, regularily enough, to pass through that competitive test.

Again, maybe its just my meta and outside of that I'm wrong and the Game is Doomed to Death.

Personally, I'd rather get on with it and do what I can do, rather than worry.

3 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

I'm 50% on facing the Cr90Ram list at this point. 6-5 and 5-6, effectively. So, again, anecdotally, myself, I can't see it becoming a problem.

I won't see it in casual games, because basically - its a casual game...

I won't see it in tournament games, because its already been shown - at least in my area - to be partially self-defeating. It wins, but it doesn't win big enough, regularily enough, to pass through that competitive test.

Again, maybe its just my meta and outside of that I'm wrong and the Game is Doomed to Death.

Personally, I'd rather get on with it and do what I can do, rather than worry.

This is exactly what we've already seen. When flown by someone good, it can place decently, but it is very difficult to get quality enough wins to place at the very top. As for finding the CRambo90 distasteful, I find your flotillas distasteful. You should stop using them. Until then, leave my rammers alone.

I actually, for my two cents worth, wouldn't have minded if ramming would have instead been blocking from X-Wing, even if in Armada it makes much less sense as a ship can simply roll 90 degrees to port/starboard to shoot at such targets above or below it, or simply depress or raise some turrets to hit it.

Because frankly, if that were going to be the argued flaw of blocking, players might as well first address the fact that it's not possible in Armada to simply roll a ship 180 degrees to hide a side with no shields from incoming fire instead of rotating them around from adjacent sections.

3 hours ago, HoundsTooth said:

That was the point I was making Marinealver... I just remember you being over on the X-Wing forums when I used to frequent them more often. Agree entirely with the above. I'm a TIE Swarm player so blocking for me was not just a viable tactic but a necessary strategy. While I don't believe there are any ships in Armada that rely on ramming, it is a more than valid tactic (as evidenced in the real world!) and ryanabt shouldn't feel bad about doing it.

You forgot the

4 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

CRambo90s do not require Rieekan.

Preach.

19 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

CRambo90s do not require Rieekan.

Reinforced blast doors means the corvette no longer dies.

15 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

Preach.

Word.

Deleted Post

Just now, ryanabt said:

I was going to respond to this with a reply in points, but I found myself getting upset. It might be helpful before you post to ask yourself if you are being dismissive of others (you are) based on your own misreading/misinterpretation of what they are saying (as is the case here).

There is a difference between "should" and "is." What is or is likely/certain to be in the future actually has no bearing on what "should" be in someones view. You, however, give what is a greater weight than anything else. Simply put, you cannot shut down discussion simply because you feel that the discussion won't change anything. That isn't always what discussion is about.

That said, I do appreciate your presence on the forum. I agree with you on many things and I hope that disagreeing here doesn't change our attitudes toward one another. I wish you well and perhaps I am misreading you. If so, I hope that you will let me know as I have been wrong many, many times before.

I apologise if I offend. Its not my intention.

I don't intend to be dismissive. I do intend to be blunt, if that makes sense

I'm not in the point to shut down discussions - I'm just failing to see the point of them... I mean, I try to look at these things with the perspective of someone new, coming into the game, and looking over things...

They shouldn't be confronted with a wall of negative postings on everything that is wrong with the game - perceived or otherwise.

Likewise, they shouldn't be confronted with all happiness and light and awesomeness about how everything is goddamn perfect when it clearly isn't....

I merely feel that Balanced discussion comes with organised points and defined variables. "Gut feelings" and "whatever the reasons" are... well, to put it lightly, **** difficult to discuss because they are personal points.

All we can really comment on logically, is what is...

I mean, I spent a load of effort to answer questions in the rules forum, and most of the time, I get equal amounts of praise and abuse for it - that's okay. That's just what happens overall...

But what I don't like, for lack of a better term, is whining... And I'll define that variable for me... I see Whining as expending energy to speak negatively about a subject, merely for agreement, when that effort could be expended in a proper way to greater effect change.

This post isn't whining - your initial post isn't Whining - but I guess I was trying to point out that you're spending energy on giving these opinions of yours a voice... They're just... wasted because they're in the wrong place, as I see it. They're being wasted in a space where people are going to go "I agree" or "I disagree", and then nothing comes of it.

Hit the rules links. Hit the feedback links. They are there. Voice your opinion there... If you do so, and then come back and copy paste them here, then its by no means a wasted effort, because you've gone and put your voice where it counts....... And then tell people you've done that, because basically, it informs them that they can do it too.

Will it actually be listened to? Will it actually be considered? I don't know. I don't work for FFG.

But I'm a Rules Guy.

I follow Procedure. Often to a Fault.

I appreciate that Companies follow Procedures. Often to a Fault.

So all I can do is encourage people - when they have feedback - when they have questions - when they have concerns, to address them in a way that's more likely to get the attention of the people it needs to.

I've had some good conversations over email with Mr. Gernes in the past on certain issues.

So certainly, feedback can and will be taken up - when its delivered in the correct format.

Just now, Drasnighta said:

I apologise if I offend. Its not my intention.

I don't intend to be dismissive. I do intend to be blunt, if that makes sense

I'm not in the point to shut down discussions - I'm just failing to see the point of them... I mean, I try to look at these things with the perspective of someone new, coming into the game, and looking over things...

They shouldn't be confronted with a wall of negative postings on everything that is wrong with the game - perceived or otherwise.

Likewise, they shouldn't be confronted with all happiness and light and awesomeness about how everything is goddamn perfect when it clearly isn't....

I merely feel that Balanced discussion comes with organised points and defined variables. "Gut feelings" and "whatever the reasons" are... well, to put it lightly, **** difficult to discuss because they are personal points.

All we can really comment on logically, is what is...

I mean, I spent a load of effort to answer questions in the rules forum, and most of the time, I get equal amounts of praise and abuse for it - that's okay. That's just what happens overall...

But what I don't like, for lack of a better term, is whining... And I'll define that variable for me... I see Whining as expending energy to speak negatively about a subject, merely for agreement, when that effort could be expended in a proper way to greater effect change.

This post isn't whining - your initial post isn't Whining - but I guess I was trying to point out that you're spending energy on giving these opinions of yours a voice... They're just... wasted because they're in the wrong place, as I see it. They're being wasted in a space where people are going to go "I agree" or "I disagree", and then nothing comes of it.

Hit the rules links. Hit the feedback links. They are there. Voice your opinion there... If you do so, and then come back and copy paste them here, then its by no means a wasted effort, because you've gone and put your voice where it counts....... And then tell people you've done that, because basically, it informs them that they can do it too.

Will it actually be listened to? Will it actually be considered? I don't know. I don't work for FFG.

But I'm a Rules Guy.

I follow Procedure. Often to a Fault.

I appreciate that Companies follow Procedures. Often to a Fault.

So all I can do is encourage people - when they have feedback - when they have questions - when they have concerns, to address them in a way that's more likely to get the attention of the people it needs to.

I've had some good conversations over email with Mr. Gernes in the past on certain issues.

So certainly, feedback can and will be taken up - when its delivered in the correct format.

LOL. Did you see that I deleted because I realized that I was just in a bad mood? Sorry man.

Also, your response is VERY kind and well written. It helps me understand you and your perspective quite a bit. Thank you!

Just now, ryanabt said:

LOL. Did you see that I deleted because I realized that I was just in a bad mood? Sorry man.

I was too busy typing my dissertation in response

You still raised fair points after all - I can be dismissive, as I'm often blunt.

"You asked a Question. Here's the Answer." - (Only, quite often, I do have to stop myself and articulate, because "RTFM" is not a kindly response )

Just want to empower people to effect what change you can.

Well, my points may have been fair, but I was still not the kindest that I could have been, so I deleted.

In the end, it helped me understand your perspective, so very much glad that I posted it.