2 minutes ago, Lord Ashram said:

You are maybe missing the bigger picture.

The pushing around of little plastic space ships, while talking Star Wars and telling stories and laughing, IS achieving something... Something far greater than determining who scored more points in some arbitrary win-loss algorithm.

At the end of the day, it is that experience that most people take away from gaming. Take that away for long enough, and people stop gaming.

I guess that comes down to what one considers fun. I find that fun for me can be achieved while commanding ships and making small thematic scenes of what is going on. Th e Empire at War game series is a good example.

I think you have to have a certain social skill level to be able to talk and tell stories, or at least a comfortable level in your self esteem. Most people don't think on it but self esteem matters a lot in how you interact I have found. It is hard to tell stories when you are down and it is hard to be upset when you are up.

As for being competitive, I am in an area with Nabooboo2000, Shmitty, and many other good players but at the same time I have players who are not as good.

It seems I have a tendency to undervalue my opponents skills. It's not done on purpose but to me the right play is just that, the right play. I don't think people deserve to be praised for playing the right way. I have played so many that have done daring tactics that change the state of the game up with what they have done. Those people get all of my praise becuase they did something I did not expect and win or lose it was amazing to see.

2 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

This is the essence of making sure you have the same intentions for what is to be got out of the game as your opponents/fellow players.

I don't want to play folks who aren't trying their best to win and have an attitude that they can. I don't think it is fun to play somebody who "isn't trying" which is very different that not caring "too much" that you win.

You have to make sure you're playing with guys you're on the same page as.

Hm, I have to admit I've never games with anyone who simply "isn't trying." What, like moving figures in random directions or picking random ship commands? I think it is far more a "not caring too much" thing.

At the end of the day, if I had to pick between these two scenarios...

a) a game that came down to the last die roll to see who won and lost, and the players were terse, competitive people who had no conversation outside of rules

and

b) a game where one person got beaten badly but there was lots of chit chat and shared moments of "Oh man, I can just imagine those two interceptors sweeping down on that y wing"

...well, I think 90 percent of people in the world take option b, even if a lot of the posters in this thread take a. And that's important to understand in a discussion where someone is finding it hard to game with a group of people.

2 minutes ago, Lord Ashram said:

I mean... Dras, Gink, Ly... You guys are likely in the top couple percent, in terms of competitiveness, when you look at the Armada demo as a whole.

Oh, I'm dying here... I cannot speak for Gink or Ly, but me... Oh ho ho...

Towhit to say, that you certainly have the wrong opinion of me . I'm the guy who travels 2 hours each way to try to play - and most often, doesn't get to - so he's just happy to get a game.

Hell, just this weekend, I sat out playing so the tournament I was running wouldn't have a Bye. And we have some competitive players - of which, and I hate name-dropping, but @Skycake is probably the "most", and even then, he's a play-the-game kind of bloke who will take his wins and losses. (He just has the dice of the gods).

I'm a play-enabler, and I'm a community builder. I'll also never be exposed to any meta outside of Hothgary (and occasionally E-Cloud-City up north), because basically, I'm stuck here. So I'm not competitive. Hell, I count the wins of the last 24 months on one hand... That's what being Statistically Abysmal does.

Could I mitigate my terrible rolls with a switch to the Imperials and an embracement of OE, Vader and the like - yes. Yes I could. But I have fun with Rebels, ergo with Rebels I stay.

To be 'competitive', (truly), you need to at least believe you have a chance at winning. I gave up on that point 12 months ago

I spend more time painting everyone elses models than playing *and* painting my own combined...

6 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

I guess that comes down to what one considers fun. I find that fun for me can be achieved while commanding ships and making small thematic scenes of what is going on. Th e Empire at War game series is a good example.

Actually, that I agree with! I think the key is sharing those scenes, and that sort of thing, with the other person:)

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Oh, I'm dying here... I cannot speak for Gink or Ly, but me... Oh ho ho...

Towhit to say, that you certainly have the wrong opinion of me . I'm the guy who travels 2 hours each way to try to play - and most often, doesn't get to - so he's just happy to get a game.

Hell, just this weekend, I sat out playing so the tournament I was running wouldn't have a Bye. And we have some competitive players - of which, and I hate name-dropping, but @Skycake is probably the "most", and even then, he's a play-the-game kind of bloke who will take his wins and losses. (He just has the dice of the gods).

I'm a play-enabler, and I'm a community builder. I'll also never be exposed to any meta outside of Hothgary (and occasionally E-Cloud-City up north), because basically, I'm stuck here. So I'm not competitive. Hell, I count the wins of the last 24 months on one hand... That's what being Statistically Abysmal does.

Could I mitigate my terrible rolls with a switch to the Imperials and an embracement of OE, Vader and the like - yes. Yes I could. But I have fun with Rebels, ergo with Rebels I stay.

To be 'competitive', (truly), you need to at least believe you have a chance at winning. I gave up on that point 12 months ago

I spend more time painting everyone elses models than playing *and* painting my own combined...

Ah, okay, sorry Dras... I really don't know this community that well, so sorry if I got you totally wrong... I may have lumped you in just because I was familiar with your name:)

I share that scene when it comes up but I still want to win.

4 minutes ago, Lord Ashram said:

Hm, I have to admit I've never games with anyone who simply "isn't trying." What, like moving figures in random directions or picking random ship commands? I think it is far more a "not caring too much" thing.

At the end of the day, if I had to pick between these two scenarios...

a) a game that came down to the last die roll to see who won and lost, and the players were terse, competitive people who had no conversation outside of rules

and

b) a game where one person got beaten badly but there was lots of chit chat and shared moments of "Oh man, I can just imagine those two interceptors sweeping down on that y wing"

...well, I think 90 percent of people in the world take option b, even if a lot of the posters in this thread take a. And that's important to understand in a discussion where someone is finding it hard to game with a group of people.

I like both A and B. I just want to be sure I'm on the same page as the other guy. I have a good lean to the middle of those. Close games where folks aren't terse but there doesn't have to be a lot of chit chat. Lopsided isn't usually fun.

10 minutes ago, Lord Ashram said:

Ah, okay, sorry Dras... I really don't know this community that well, so sorry if I got you totally wrong... I may have lumped you in just because I was familiar with your name:)

Its okay, I had a good chuckle at it (and I needed that today).

People do get the impression that I'm competitive, because, y'know, I'm the Rules Guy .... And "Casual" players don't necessarily "Care" about "Rules"... Right?

So that's where a bit of the misnomer comes into play. Because I care about the Rules, I must be a competitive player.

And I effin' hate "Casual" versus "Competitive" so goddamn much because of it. I'm sorry. I'm an Armada player. I play Armada. Every member of the Hothgary scene who turns up are Armada Players. They Play Armada. Wether its a 2-game "Fleet Patrol" jump like the weekend just passed, or the Regionals earlier this year - we're together to play Armada.

I firmly believe the Tournament Regulations themselves set a good precedence as to how "serious" you take these things... This set of Games are relaxed. These set of games are more Formal. You go to worlds, its a Premier experience, so don't make an arse of yourself. That sort of thing.

For me, the rules give us all a baseline, wether its casual or not, to prepare for... I play games at 400 points and using the list building critera because I have to lug all of my crap across town and hopefully play a game when I get there... So I expect that anyone else going to attend is going to - at a minimum, adhere to the same rules. If they want to do something different afterwards, or between other friends with agreements - that's cool and all... But the expectation is you're, at the very minimum , going to adhere to the rules when playing someone you havn't specifically agreed to arrange a game with beforehand.

Also, having to choose between only those two scenarios is a misleading fallacy at the very least.

Its like asking someone if they want to get shot in the hand or shot in the foot... I mean, there's a hundred other possible scenarios - some of which don't include shooting...

I strive to have games that are fun, laughing, story-based, and yet, within the bounds of the rules, where both players have the chance to give their best to themselves and to their opponent. Just because two players are competitive doesn't mean they're Terse and don't talk to each other. Just because players are casual doesn't mean they can't have games that come down to the wire.

My biggest stretch and hate, right here, is the fact that people are ttrying to be lumped into "Competitive' and "Casual" and there's seemingly no crossover... I think when we admit a middle ground there (let alone trying to achieve it), things are better.

Don't be "Casual".

Don't be "Competitive."

Be an Armada Player.

Segregation is never a good thing.

For the most part though, I can be ignored.

I am rambly and hate-filled without Coffee.

I am also ghastly hypocritical. I mean, here I am objecting to being called a "Competitive" playe,r and insinuating I'm "Casual", and then rallying against either definition as an afterthought.

I feel so bad for you Dras... I'm always here if you need a Vassal match and some wins to cheer you up.

6 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

For the most part though, I can be ignored.

I am rambly and hate-filled without Coffee.

I am also ghastly hypocritical. I mean, here I am objecting to being called a "Competitive" playe,r and insinuating I'm "Casual", and then rallying against either definition as an afterthought.

For what's worth I get exactly where you're coming from. I tend to think that by "competitive" folks mean more "sore loser" who brought the brokenist list he could make, and by "casual" folks mean "not a sore loser" who brought a list from whatever he happened to own. I guess we need one of those two axis graphs with sore loser and not sore loser on each end of one axis and broken list and this is what I own on each end of the other.

I don't feel bad about being Statistically Abysmal. Its just another factor to factor in

I do believe its more important to put energy into the positive - and in my case, that's fostering the community at the expense of my playing, if need be.

Gives me time to not think about spending money on things I feel I need at the moment (like a Gozanti and maybe another Liberty), and instead, try to set aside funds for New Releases come June/July

To be fair, Dodonna the Oppressor was made in a meta where Bombers were king. Ahhhh those were the days. A list crafted with the express purpose to show that Dodonna was still a great Commander in a day where he was looked down on in favor of Ackbar and Rieekan. It did not start Tier 1 but I made it Tier 1.

To me, that was fun.

I am not sure Competitive = Sore Loser. One has to be taught how to lose gracefully, it does not just come naturally. Most have but I have never learned that lesson. I HATE losing with a passion but in some situations it is fine.

I hate losing too. Hell last tournament I played, the guy got 700 points to my 178. He had Rieekan to my Ackbar and well things weren't gonna turn out well for me. I still tried to make it an engaging game. I wanted to kill something that wasn't a flotilla **** it! I was going to lose by a massive margin anyways so yea, I killed Yavaris.

Though I try to have fun losing if I can. Bad match ups happen. How you play out that match up is another story. Well I am not good with this typing to make your decision to do what ever feel better. I too have Asperger. The only thing that has ever, EVER, made me not play a player is when that player is the super competitive type that brings his worlds list to test when I just want to try a new fleet. I mean I gave it a shot, and I lost, but I feel like I didn't really learn much about that fleet since I barely did ANYTHING except kill a single comms net flotilla.

Look at me just rambling about my own problems now. I told you I was terrible at this. XD well I hope this helps someone.

Yea learning new things are super important to me.

In Armada I don't worry about high class lists. Though DeMSU and Corvette swarms are so boring to play against.

I like things that are new and interesting. One reason I don't tend to play the same list twice.

Lord Ashram, just because I am competitive and my interest in this game is the mechanics rather than the thematics does not mean I am quiet. I will talk all day with my opponents about the game, different combinations, why we have made certain moves, the new expansions etc.

We have different interests in this game. No need for broadstroke assumptions that we must be silent if we dont choose to discuss the same things. You will notice that on these forums we keep out of each others. Thats because I dont walk into theme and future expansion threads very often.

25 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Lord Ashram, just because I am competitive and my interest in this game is the mechanics rather than the thematics does not mean I am quiet. I will talk all day with my opponents about the game, different combinations, why we have made certain moves, the new expansions etc.

We have different interests in this game. No need for broadstroke assumptions that we must be silent if we dont choose to discuss the same things. You will notice that on these forums we keep out of each others. Thats because I dont walk into theme and future expansion threads very often.

Hm, I never assumed that. I was simply participating in this thread, because of the topic. Lys says he is super competitive, and that it gets in the way. He also said that the people in his area won't play with him. I posited that the mix of competitiveness and lack of ease in social situations probably hurt.

And yeah, broad brush strokes about behavior do not help. I would wager most people just play. By "competitive" I always took it to mean "play in tournaments, and play pretty much only to win." If that isn't what people mean, my bad. And by "fly casual" I just mean that I am a casual dude when I play... If someone messes something up and catches it right away I'll usually try to let them make it up, I don't purchase lists based on what wins, and my enjoyment isn't really connected to whether or not I win or lose.

37 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

W e have different interests in this game. No need for broadstroke assumptions that we must be silent if we dont choose to discuss the same things. You will notice that on these forums we keep out of each others. Thats because I dont walk into theme and future expansion threads very often.

Unless you are me, I dabble in all the threads when I am on typically

People purchase lists? I just buy it all!

16 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Unless you are me, I dabble in all the threads when I am on typically

Not these days, thats an impossible task.

I think the Stele open was a great event for me compared to regionals:

I only won 1 game, but 2 of the 3 losses were tight (one was a 0pt toilet bowl the other was one squadron loss at the end swung it to a 13pt loss). I had fun, everybody was nice. Regionals I literally won one game in 9 in 2016 and 1 of my 3 in 2017. I had fun, but I felt like everybody was just straight up bloodthirsty. Still friendly, make no mistake, but everybody needed to win.

My take on all of this is that I don't need to win a game to have fun. Give me an opponent who's willing to chat about life and the game and not just rules. I don't like to lose, but I can live with being beaten up as long as I know I tried my best, and that I had fun trying. Ultimately this is a game, and once it's no longer fun, it's no longer for me.

Lyraeus, if you want to play this game, **** the others. You may not be able to grow the community given a reputation, but there isn't anything stopping you from playing public events. Ultimately you just need to be the best you that you can be and try to work out the reputation situation over time. Play to win, but get graceful in defeat. If the game isn't fun for you, there isn't anything stopping you from walking away for a bit and coming back. And if you like doing things that aren't fun, well, you could be a masochist.

5 hours ago, Stasy said:

I think the Stele open was a great event for me compared to regionals:

I only won 1 game, but 2 of the 3 losses were tight (one was a 0pt toilet bowl the other was one squadron loss at the end swung it to a 13pt loss). I had fun, everybody was nice. Regionals I literally won one game in 9 in 2016 and 1 of my 3 in 2017. I had fun, but I felt like everybody was just straight up bloodthirsty. Still friendly, make no mistake, but everybody needed to win.

My take on all of this is that I don't need to win a game to have fun. Give me an opponent who's willing to chat about life and the game and not just rules. I don't like to lose, but I can live with being beaten up as long as I know I tried my best, and that I had fun trying. Ultimately this is a game, and once it's no longer fun, it's no longer for me.

Lyraeus, if you want to play this game, **** the others. You may not be able to grow the community given a reputation, but there isn't anything stopping you from playing public events. Ultimately you just need to be the best you that you can be and try to work out the reputation situation over time. Play to win, but get graceful in defeat. If the game isn't fun for you, there isn't anything stopping you from walking away for a bit and coming back. And if you like doing things that aren't fun, well, you could be a masochist.

Stasy to rescue, repeating what I said the other day I'm too tired to formulate well today. Are you on Vassal at all Lyr? We can fix getting you games. It's not the same as pushing things around the table, but with some exceptions, I think we've built a solid trend here of what this community thinks of you.

1 hour ago, GiledPallaeon said:

Stasy to rescue, repeating what I said the other day I'm too tired to formulate well today. Are you on Vassal at all Lyr? We can fix getting you games. It's not the same as pushing things around the table, but with some exceptions, I think we've built a solid trend here of what this community thinks of you.

It is always weird to me. I don't understand what I bring that people enjoy about me... As for Vassal, I need to get my computer reformatted, need a Windows 10 disc to do it.

If anyone (not necessarily Lyr specifically) has a chance at all to play the game they love with any kind of community at all, they need to make any reasonable effort necessary to do so, even if that means some very hard work improving how you interact others if that's the issue (although if it's the others in the first place, obviously it's their fault not yours).

I have been in the miniatures wargame hobby since I was 14, and I will be 35 next week. Nowhere in that time have I been able to hook up with a community in a reasonable proximity. At all. Other than a buddy who I got interested in X-Wing and have played a couple of times, the only games I have ever been able to play over all those years involve me buying and painting enough of a collection for a game that I am able to loan out a force to one of two friends over the years, or very occasionally my wife, to play.

I am so geeked that I got my father to be interested in Armada, even if we have only played a trio of games so far (juggling work and two kids makes gaming even harder, like I really needed that, lol).