So it has been growing again. I feel like it's my fault Armada does not grow in my area. I feel like people stay away from playing at a store becuase of me.

How does one know when it is time to quit?

23 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

So it has been growing again. I feel like it's my fault Armada does not grow in my area. I feel like people stay away from playing at a store becuase of me.

How does one know when it is time to quit?

Quit what, the game or trying to grow the community?
Concerning the former, I would suggest you never quit the game (as in sell all your stuff and forget about it) 'cause you never know when an opportunity to play will arise.
Concerning the latter, I'm not so sure I personally would quit, given that I have the hope that sheer perseverance will convince somebody to try the game, and that then they'll get hooked. If you are not of that belief, then perhaps one should quit when one feels that one has explored every possible way to grow the community and all has been for naught. Still even then regular attempts to convert an unsuspecting player should be, in my opinion, performed, given that you never know when you will get lucky and snag an interested player.

As for it being your fault that the community does not grow, what do you mean? You fault in that you do not try enough? I find that doubtful, given that your post implies you are at the point of despair only untold hours of futile toiling can bring on. Your fault 'cause nobody wants to play with you personally? Without knowing you I find that also rather hard to believe. If the issue was just you or your personality, then interested parties would have played among themselves, and the community would grow, but you would have been excluded. I assume this is not the case, and that the community has not grown, with or without you. Thus I can but assume that it is not you specifically that is the issue, especially if you happen to play other games with people there. Every other circumstance that I can think of would be beyond your control, unless you own the only store in which the game is sold and played and are not promoting your products.

Therefore I would say that I find it unlikely that the lack of growth is your fault, that you should not quit the game, and that you should try, even irregularly, to request that people learn to play this game, since you never know when somebody will cave in, or whether a new person would be interested.

As a final couple of points, I am sure you have heard of Vassal, and I would suggest that if the community near you shows no interest in the game, then perhaps you will find solace in the international community. Also, I hope I have not offended you or come off as rude in my post, I was trying to be 'coldly' rational and detached, in an attempt to be neutral to all possibilities.

P.S. My apologies for the epistle, I hope it answered your question in a satisfactory manner.

Hahahaha, someone who doesn't know me. Gods I have been away too long I think.

Just move to San Antonio!

9 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Just move to San Antonio!

Any good game stores there?

Just now, Lyraeus said:

Any good game stores there?

Several. Plus we got a big community. I think it might be bigger than the X-wing folks. SUCK IT X-WING. XD

1 minute ago, TallGiraffe said:

Several. Plus we got a big community. I think it might be bigger than the X-wing folks. SUCK IT X-WING. XD

Tempting. Moving though is expensive and without a job set up it is dangerous

SO why do you think you are a problem in getting a community together? I mean is there a big miniatures group in general over where you are?

1 hour ago, TallGiraffe said:

SO why do you think you are a problem in getting a community together? I mean is there a big miniatures group in general over where you are?

Becuase my community even says so. I am so infamous that people bad mouth me across country. In fact I was told I am driving a wedge in the community and that people don't come to the store I play at becuase I am there. So yea, I feel it is me.

I would rather quit a game I really enjoy rather than hold it back.

Of course I earned that but at the same time some actually like me. Not sure why though.

12 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

So it has been growing again. I feel like it's my fault Armada does not grow in my area. I feel like people stay away from playing at a store becuase of me.

How does one know when it is time to quit?

How obnoxious can you be? Really?

I mean, I've been playing games for a long time, and I've met some characters. Ppl I wouldn't invite over to my house on a Sunday - or go bar-hopping with - but surely it's possible to play vs most types, no?

Besides, you're not THAT good, so they can just beat you, can't they?

Oh! I know I should quit if I see my opponent deploying his ships overlapping

I was playing against the same guy almost a year before we found new players. You must have a friend, at least one. Does not he like armada?

20 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Oh! I know I should quit if I see my opponent deploying his ships overlapping

I was playing against the same guy almost a year before we found new players. You must have a friend, at least one. Does not he like armada?

Yeah same here. 1.5 years of 1 opponent, the score is currently 19:2 in my favor, with an additional tie, for a total of 22 games over that 18 month period, but still we continue playing (and enjoy the game what's more). During that entire period I have repeatedly sought new players, among the same group, yet none have joined. I still ask them on occasion, just to see if they have changed their minds.

3 hours ago, Green Knight said:

How obnoxious can you be? Really?

I mean, I've been playing games for a long time, and I've met some characters. Ppl I wouldn't invite over to my house on a Sunday - or go bar-hopping with - but surely it's possible to play vs most types, no?

Besides, you're not THAT good, so they can just beat you, can't they?

I am that rusty. Most could not back when I was playing seriously some could. Shmitty, and a few others it was a bit in their favor.

I live in Portland Oregon where the tolerance level may be exceedingly low.

1 hour ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Oh! I know I should quit if I see my opponent deploying his ships overlapping

I was playing against the same guy almost a year before we found new players. You must have a friend, at least one. Does not he like armada?

Ow my soul... You wound it. I will never live that down will I. /sigh, even though my reasoning was just to get that hole patched.

A friend? Eh, honestly, I don't know. Maybe I guess. It just feels more like people I am in a room with at times

18 hours ago, Lyraeus said:

So it has been growing again. I feel like it's my fault Armada does not grow in my area. I feel like people stay away from playing at a store becuase of me.

How does one know when it is time to quit?

If no one likes you don't give yourself too much credit for being the issue. Folks can be mean and they'll usually not miss a chance to be mean if they've got a justification for it. If they wanted to play but didn't want you around you'd hear about it directly. Perhaps slightly passive aggressively but they'd make it clear you're the issue. Are these guys playing games to which you aren't invited in their homes? Are there games in the shop when guys know you won't be there?

The shop likely wouldn't tolerate you at the cost of a group of players especially if everyone was complaining about you. Or they don't want a group of players and keep you around as repellent.

Folks are lazy and going out to the shop for a game is a chore. This is partially the push for tourney play. Folks can justify getting off their butt for a chance at a prize. Doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff? Not so much.

Maybe Frimmel but I have been told that people don't like going to an event when I go and have been told not to attend before so it is just one of those patterns.

As it stands I don't really bring much to the community anymore mainly because of all of this. It's not just them though. I know I am not the best opponent. At best I can have great games but once any sort of competition is added I change for the worse.

1 hour ago, Frimmel said:

If no one likes you don't give yourself too much credit for being the issue. Folks can be mean and they'll usually not miss a chance to be mean if they've got a justification for it. If they wanted to play but didn't want you around you'd hear about it directly. Perhaps slightly passive aggressively but they'd make it clear you're the issue. Are these guys playing games to which you aren't invited in their homes? Are there games in the shop when guys know you won't be there?

The shop likely wouldn't tolerate you at the cost of a group of players especially if everyone was complaining about you. Or they don't want a group of players and keep you around as repellent.

Folks are lazy and going out to the shop for a game is a chore. This is partially the push for tourney play. Folks can justify getting off their butt for a chance at a prize. Doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff? Not so much.

1 hour ago, Lyraeus said:

Maybe Frimmel but I have been told that people don't like going to an event when I go and have been told not to attend before so it is just one of those patterns.

As it stands I don't really bring much to the community anymore mainly because of all of this. It's not just them though. I know I am not the best opponent. At best I can have great games but once any sort of competition is added I change for the worse.

First, what Frimmel said, repeated loudly for the people in the back. I can't exactly claim to be a leading thinker or a pillar of community, but I've been around here long enough to know who you are Lyraeus, and while I've never had the pleasure of playing against you in person (something I intend to fix at next available opportunity, you seem like a sharp sort), I know where you are for various and sundry reasons not worth explaining here. Long story short, people say **** all the time, more often than not to either just say **** because they can't be positive, or because they need to feel better than someone else. Remember that. Their opinion of you is only partially your fault, and definitely not your responsibility. Pleasing everyone else is not what life is for. By all means display sportsmanship, but it is a two-part conversation. While it is incumbent on you to recognize when you are a less positive version of yourself, which you clearly do, and to moderate those impulses (can't speak to that), I have equal requirements for my opponents to display the same level of sportsmanship I expect of myself.

Don't give up Armada, you clearly enjoy it, and you add a vibrant spark to our online community. I heartily suggest you dive into VASSAL, and test your skills against a variety of opponents from around the world. The added barrier of an online game may even be able to help you learn to moderate your competitive impulses (certainly no harm in trying). Green Knight has the signups up for the VASSAL Summer Tournament. Why don't you give that a shot?

I was going to say something on the lines of GiledPellaeon. We can only control ourselves. If you own the things that are on you, then the things that are not, chiefly the feelings of others, are not on you. Control the things that are yours to control and don't worry about the rest. This is difficult. But quitting certainly isn't the answer.

I will go the other way and say this, since you seem to be asking for honest feedback:

You probably are part of the problem, right now. Toxic personalities and negative experiences can damage a community, and the fact that this is not a first occurrence and you are openly copping to negative interactions lends weight to that.

With that said, I would say you should ask yourself a question:

Do you want to try to change, or is it easier to walk away? I'm not going to pretend there is a correct answer, I don't know the entire context, and I'm not going to get into the business of deciding someone else's life, so this is entirely in your hands and under your control. Walking away removes the issue and the stress, and it is a legitimate path. Nobody should judge you if you choose that.

Instead, I will offer this:

If you choose to stay, it should be because you are intending to make it a personal goal to improve yourself, and your own conduct within games. Listen more; talk less. Prioritize others having fun over you winning, and experiment more rather than trying to be optimal (this will have the side effect of improving your play long-term). Assume you are the worst player and take notes, don't speak with authority, relax, and only set internal goals (e.g. things like winning a tournament are out of your control as some other guy may score 30 points in 3 rounds and you never play them but things like pushing yourself to play unusual objectives as well as possible are totally within them).

In the end, mostly it comes down to if you want to do the hard work of changing behavior that is grating on others. This is also not a judgment about right/wrong, it's just an explanation of occurrence based on the context you have described.

So entirely your call, but as you intimated, the current path is making both you and others unhappy, so why persist?

As Yogi Berra said: "if you see a fork in the road, take it."

Darn you GiledPallaeon. I respond to logic just too clearly.

The only quibble I have is that people's opinion are partially a person's responsibility. Hence why first impressions are important.

I need to get my laptop fixed.

Ahhh Reinholt good view. I did walk away for a time. I had hopped that me not being apart of the community would settle people down and allow me to come in with less of an ego. Maybe I should attend a tournament at least once and just go with what happens (me getting beat BAD most likely) and see what happens.

Maybe I am just a coward...

I agree with Reinholt that quitting can be an answer. The question is whether quitting is an answer you can live with. I heard it said that change is hard and that we change when the process of changing is less painful than the status quo.

I also know that changing into what others want you to be or are more comfortable with doesn't typically work out that well.

I played an online co-op video game Saturday morning. I had guys reporting me and other guys wanting to add me to their friends list. Sometimes it is you. Sometimes it isn't. Learning the difference is how one becomes wise. No man is born wise.

The serenity prayer isn't just for alcoholics.

That is the question isn't it. That is what I am battling. Is quitting really the answer. It hurts to think to quit but if it helps people? Is it so bad?

4 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

That is the question isn't it. That is what I am battling. Is quitting really the answer. It hurts to think to quit but if it helps people? Is it so bad?

If it hurts you to quit, then quitting isn't the answer. You don't seem to want to quit in my opinion. You've answered that question. Move on to the next question.

We often get caught up in finding answers and forget to be certain we've asked the right question.

Ohhh nice play on I Robot and the Wizards First Rule.

So what is the solution then. Hmmm

39 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

That is the question isn't it. That is what I am battling. Is quitting really the answer. It hurts to think to quit but if it helps people? Is it so bad?

If I want a constructive conversation, I have to frame it rationally. Some are just more responsive to that than others. And Reinholt has a point. If you're going to stay, you should be motivating yourself to improve, both on your play of the game and as a player. Use your love of the game to do that. Be the player you would like to face across the board. And he's right, the side effect will be both a hopefully improved community and your own improved skills.

You are correct, first impressions are important. In no way am I among to absolve you of your actions. You are an adult, you don't need to be shielded from that. If you have truly faulted other people, they deserve for you to apologize and to improve in the future. However, your own improvement re: sportsmanship, whatever else, is only necessary, not sufficient for their views to change. Let me say that again, your improvement within the community is necessary, BUT, NOT sufficient. You can't change any minds that don't want to be changed. And if you have done your utmost, on your honor, to improve yourself and your conduct, whether their view changes or not, you have dispensed your responsibility. That is an ongoing responsibility, but it is the extent of your responsibility.

Anything you decide to change won't be adjusted overnight. You'll need patience. You'll make mistakes, and you'll need to learn from them. But I highly doubt I'm telling you anything you don't already know. Focus on asking the right questions about yourself and the game and everything should be clear. And remember while you have a responsibility to your opponents to display good sportsmanship, you don't have one to make them happy.

5 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Ohhh nice play on I Robot and the Wizards First Rule.

So what is the solution then. Hmmm

No. You're getting ahead of yourself. What's the question?

And this about eleventy-billion times.

1 minute ago, GiledPallaeon said:

If I want a constructive conversation, I have to frame it rationally. Some are just more responsive to that than others. And Reinholt has a point. If you're going to stay, you should be motivating yourself to improve, both on your play of the game and as a player. Use your love of the game to do that. Be the player you would like to face across the board. And he's right, the side effect will be both a hopefully improved community and your own improved skills.

You are correct, first impressions are important. In no way am I among to absolve you of your actions. You are an adult, you don't need to be shielded from that. If you have truly faulted other people, they deserve for you to apologize and to improve in the future. However, your own improvement re: sportsmanship, whatever else, is only necessary, not sufficient for their views to change. Let me say that again, your improvement within the community is necessary, BUT, NOT sufficient. You can't change any minds that don't want to be changed. And if you have done your utmost, on your honor, to improve yourself and your conduct, whether their view changes or not, you have dispensed your responsibility. That is an ongoing responsibility, but it is the extent of your responsibility.

Anything you decide to change won't be adjusted overnight. You'll need patience. You'll make mistakes, and you'll need to learn from them. But I highly doubt I'm telling you anything you don't already know. Focus on asking the right questions about yourself and the game and everything should be clear. And remember while you have a responsibility to your opponents to display good sportsmanship, you don't have one to make them happy.