5 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

You mean like Tiex7 (before the nerf of course)

Yeah but for most of the meta stuff it seems like Imperials are always the late comers to the party, They were after the Rebels to get PWT (scum was last but again they weren't around Wave 5). They were the last to get turret slot thus TLT, and when ever they are the first to get something they are the first to get nerfed (Cloak got nerfed way before Fat Han and other large ships got nerfed).

Yeah, well we all needed rebel stress to come back (which should have been an Imperial strat to begin with, it's always the rebel pilots you see screaming then exploding) because of how fun that was, and the /x7 was stress resistant, so it had to go.

Waaaa, Imps have the most effecient filler ship and blocker!

waaa, Imps have multiple aces in multiple price points!

Waaaa, Imps have a card that can still change any die roll even after nerf, but now the nerf makes you actually need to know when to use it!

Waaaa, Imps have free evade actions on their super fighters, but it's an action now so it sucks.

Waaa, Imps get nothing! And then it's taken away!

When did the Empire get so soft? Isn't this the faction that doesn't give a FAQ about shields? TIE Pilots fly by the seat of their pants, nothing but skill and superior maneuverability between them and the cold hard vacuum. Don't fall for the tricks of the Rebel Scum! You have a galaxy to protect and defend, man up! Or alien up if you have to.

Yeah, the evade equaling a shield doesn't hold much water for me either. There are for more things that ignore evades (especially common things like asteroids) that ignore evades completely then there are things that ignore shields.

2 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Waaaa, Imps have the most effecient filler ship and blocker!

waaa, Imps have multiple aces in multiple price points!

Waaaa, Imps have a card that can still change any die roll even after nerf, but now the nerf makes you actually need to know when to use it!

Waaaa, Imps have free evade actions on their super fighters, but it's an action now so it sucks.

Waaa, Imps get nothing! And then it's taken away!

When did the Empire get so soft? ...

When we became the 1st Order

But again, I'm not saying the Empire is an "I always lose" faction, but my main complaint for playing Empire was the lack of viable competitive builds when compared to the other factions. Now you might call it thematic as Empire was supposed to be a collectivist regime with stormtrooper helmets and uniforms that makes every white male look the same. However I think this was more on accident not design as Imperials had the smallest pool of upgrades, even scum which came out 6 waves earlier had passed Empire. Also a faction exclusive upgrade that only excludes all but one faction I believe is in poor taste. Sure Rebels only get 1 pulse ray shield but it it were Scum only I would have accepted that more than Scum and Rebel only.

That's not saying that there is improvement in this category. The TIE Aggressor is IMHO a big step in the correct direction. Still looking at the different builds and mechanics and Empire is still missing at some of them. At least when comparing the primary factions. When comparing subtractions I think the 1st Order is doing better than the Resistance, but again they still are lacking the ships to be a full faction in their own right.

2 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Waaaa, Imps have the most effecient filler ship and blocker!

waaa, Imps have multiple aces in multiple price points!

Waaaa, Imps have a card that can still change any die roll even after nerf, but now the nerf makes you actually need to know when to use it!

Waaaa, Imps have free evade actions on their super fighters, but it's an action now so it sucks.

Waaa, Imps get nothing! And then it's taken away!

When did the Empire get so soft? Isn't this the faction that doesn't give a FAQ about shields? TIE Pilots fly by the seat of their pants, nothing but skill and superior maneuverability between them and the cold hard vacuum. Don't fall for the tricks of the Rebel Scum! You have a galaxy to protect and defend, man up! Or alien up if you have to.

You have to remember that what has been the Empire's strength and niche (the best Aces, Palp, and later x7) have all been vilified, pushed out of meta or nerfed. Right now, people are saying (myself included) that the next big thing for the Empire is /sf lists. And when you look at the /sf dial and stat line, you see it has way more in common with Rebel and Scum ships than it does with most of the other Imperial ships. With how the meta is currently, the Empire is being pushed away from its strengths and adapt to the type of lists that Rebels and Scum have more options for. There is some good steps to rectify this coming (ie the Aggresor), but the Imps are still behind on upgrades and tricks. Why shouldn't they have regen like this? I still haven't heard a satisfactory answer.

4 hours ago, nitrobenz said:

@Marinealver

@BadMotivator 's idea for "action: get a shield" is good to keep most ships from really double dipping with CR. Then there's Soontir and Vader who both could run-n-regen pretty effectively with an action regen, I'd even include Vessery in the problem list of you don't put a Shield value Cap on it. Soontir would have to give up Autothrusters and stealth device to make it happen so the price would have to be aggressive to be worth it for him. 1 point feels too cheap...

Well Soontir wouldn't really do anything with it since you'd have to give him a Shield upgrade since he doesn't even have any shields. And regenerating a single shield wouldn't be all that fabulous. Not on a guy who basically is permanently wedded to stealth devices and autothrusters.

Vader would definitely be regenerating a shield each round, but given you are giving up a few other nice mods I think it would be fair.

1 hour ago, SabineKey said:

You have to remember that what has been the Empire's strength and niche (the best Aces, Palp, and later x7) have all been vilified, pushed out of meta or nerfed. Right now, people are saying (myself included) that the next big thing for the Empire is /sf lists. And when you look at the /sf dial and stat line, you see it has way more in common with Rebel and Scum ships than it does with most of the other Imperial ships. With how the meta is currently, the Empire is being pushed away from its strengths and adapt to the type of lists that Rebels and Scum have more options for. There is some good steps to rectify this coming (ie the Aggresor), but the Imps are still behind on upgrades and tricks. Why shouldn't they have regen like this? I still haven't heard a satisfactory answer.

GUNBOAT. That's the answer. That's always the answer. Unless it's SLAM related, then the answer is MISSLE BOAT.

actually Miranda Regen should be THE regen available to all ships, just like in the flight sims. I wouldn't mind seeing an Imp only system that had some regen based around lowering attack dice or gaining a No Attack token. That would help out Advanced, /SF, Lambdas, and Phantoms.

47 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

GUNBOAT. That's the answer. That's always the answer. Unless it's SLAM related, then the answer is MISSLE BOAT.

Unless.....the Gunboat had slam.

47 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

actually Miranda Regen should be THE regen available to all ships, just like in the flight sims. I wouldn't mind seeing an Imp only system that had some regen based around lowering attack dice or gaining a No Attack token. That would help out Advanced, /SF, Lambdas, and Phantoms.

That could be nice. The No Attack option might even work out for QuickDraw, who would be a bit of a worrisome with a different sort of regen. But then, compared to Dengar...

5 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

GUNBOAT. That's the answer. That's always the answer. Unless it's SLAM related, then the answer is MISSLE BOAT.

actually Miranda Regen should be THE regen available to all ships, just like in the flight sims. I wouldn't mind seeing an Imp only system that had some regen based around lowering attack dice or gaining a No Attack token. That would help out Advanced, /SF, Lambdas, and Phantoms.

4 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Unless.....the Gunboat had slam.

That could be nice. The No Attack option might even work out for QuickDraw, who would be a bit of a worrisome with a different sort of regen. But then, compared to Dengar...

It would be nice, but as I said we are more likely going to get the Naboo starfighter before we get the Gunboat. Although I can put that on the list of ships that FFG has no excuse for not including in X-wing along with the Rebel Lambda shuttle. As for Ginboat/Missile Boat, you could release that in one expansion. I can see a small based imperial ship with cannon slot and 3x missile slots for the gunboat. A missile boat could easily be a title that removes the cannon slot places EM tokens on all missile upgrade and add slam action in the action bar?

But yeah Imperials should have regen but it should be at best a limited regen, which TIE Heavy shielding might be too much. Perhaps a ship with a pilot ability that allows for shield regen would be good enough for me even if that pilot/ship doesn't make it to the top 4 of nationals/worlds.

GUNBOAT DID NOT HAVE SLAM.

MISSILE BOAT HAD SLAM.

Unless there was some spin off game or obscure reference book that listed it. It never had SLAM in the TIE Fighter game.

16 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

GUNBOAT DID NOT HAVE SLAM.

MISSILE BOAT HAD SLAM.

Unless there was some spin off game or obscure reference book that listed it. It never had SLAM in the TIE Fighter game.

That's what I said.

Gunboat, the basic ship has a cannon slot and 3x missile slot and maybe a crew. Actions Target lock focus

Missile boat is a title, lose the cannon slot but all missile upgrades gain a EM token, also SLAM gets added into the action bar.

Just like the TIE shuttle takes place of the TIE bomber, the missile boat can take place of the gunboat.

Sorry, that was @ Sabinekey

35 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

That's what I said.

Gunboat, the basic ship has a cannon slot and 3x missile slot and maybe a crew. Actions Target lock focus

Missile boat is a title, lose the cannon slot but all missile upgrades gain a EM token, also SLAM gets added into the action bar.

Just like the TIE shuttle takes place of the TIE bomber, the missile boat can take place of the gunboat.

The missile boat can never take the place of GUNBOAT...

in my heart <3

28 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

The missile boat can never take the place of GUNBOAT...

in my heart <3

well no, the whole title is designed to keep the same frame/platform but give it a different roll. Much like the TIE shuttle which is still a bomber but a different roll.

56 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

well no, the whole title is designed to keep the same frame/platform but give it a different roll. Much like the TIE shuttle which is still a bomber but a different roll.

Actually a title for the GUNBOAT is probably the way FFG will go WHEN they release it. But the missile boat was definitely not a GUNBOAT with extra missile pods, it was a totally different fusilage only shared a some what similar build. And, I really don't know where you got the Crew slot, both were single seat.

forgove the rabid GUNBOAT fanaticism, I've been waiting almost a quarter century for an official GUNBOAT model/toy/anything.

On 4/8/2017 at 2:21 AM, thespaceinvader said:

Sabine's TIE.

Also the TFA Falcon, and that new rebel Scurrg. Anything that has an illicit slot can choose to take the scum version

28 minutes ago, mithril2098 said:

Also the TFA Falcon, and that new rebel Scurrg. Anything that has an illicit slot can choose to take the scum version

Falcon can't, small ship only I believe.

2 hours ago, mithril2098 said:

Also the TFA Falcon, and that new rebel Scurrg. Anything that has an illicit slot can choose to take the scum version

2 hours ago, Strikesback said:

Falcon can't, small ship only I believe.

Yup Falcon can't but Scurrg can, so Rebels will have a total of 2 ships that can take cloaking device. Good thing that only one of them can have it thanks to the Treaty Of Algeron, and since they don't have Jabba it is more vulnerable to anti-proton scans.

Quote

If in the end phase you have fewer than 1 shield tokens and no face up damage card with the "ship" trait, you may recover 1 shield token. You cannot equip this card if your shield value is 0.

the last sentence is unnecessary - the rules definition of "recover shields" prohibits you recovering shield you don't have to begin with.

Second, is "fewer than 1 shield tokens" not "no shield tokens".

Third - bloody hell, no. Every shield regen ability elsewhere comes with a massive downside - limiting you to an x-wings extremely poor selection of green moves, costing an action, costing a focus token (more or less the same), turning a damage card face-up, or ionizing yourself.

Remember, if this thing triggers once, at four points, it's done the same as a shield upgrade.

ship criticals is a pretty limited requirement, plus shield regen is worth proportionally more on an agility 3 tie fighter.

The card sounds okay if it was 'damage cards', although the cost may be a bit high.

Thirdly, a retainable evade token is to all intents and purposes a shield token. No, it's not great against a tlt and interacts with gunner badly, but on the other hand it does contribute to not suffering "if you hit" effects like tractor or ion weapons or Ill show you the dark side.

The point is, a TIE/fo with this modification that gets away for a turn can both recharge its comms relay and recover its shield, neither of which restricts its amazing white and green dial, which is effectively "double speed regen".

2 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Yup Falcon can't but Scurrg can, so Rebels will have a total of 2 ships that can take cloaking device. Good thing that only one of them can have it thanks to the Treaty Of Algeron, and since they don't have Jabba it is more vulnerable to anti-proton scans.

That's ok, Talon Kaarde will have to show up as Scum and Reb only crew that works like Jabba only for the ship he's on.

2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

the last sentence is unnecessary - the rules definition of "recover shields" prohibits you recovering shield you don't have to begin with.

Second, is "fewer than 1 shield tokens" not "no shield tokens".

Third - bloody hell, no. Every shield regen ability elsewhere comes with a massive downside - limiting you to an x-wings extremely poor selection of green moves, costing an action, costing a focus token (more or less the same), turning a damage card face-up, or ionizing yourself.

Remember, if this thing triggers once, at four points, it's done the same as a shield upgrade.

ship criticals is a pretty limited requirement, plus shield regen is worth proportionally more on an agility 3 tie fighter.

The card sounds okay if it was 'damage cards', although the cost may be a bit high.

Thirdly, a retainable evade token is to all intents and purposes a shield token. No, it's not great against a tlt and interacts with gunner badly, but on the other hand it does contribute to not suffering "if you hit" effects like tractor or ion weapons.

The point is, a TIE/fo with this modification that gets away for a turn can both recharge its comms relay and recover its shield, neither of which restricts its amazing white and green dial, which is effectively "double speed regen".

1. I see what you mean. Kind of redundant.
2. I try to phrase it in context of X-wing rules. Yes no shield tokens is more proper in the ears of the queen but <1 is what a computer understands.
3. I wasn't trying to copy pulse ray shield word for word, but yes I get your point. We don't necessarily want the tank cycle to come back to the meta with majority of swiss rounds going to time. I didn't want to copy word for word of the pulse ray shields so I decided for a limited cap on regen (no more than 1) and an upgrade failure sort of like stealth device. The ship trait was for Kylo Ren and IWHSYTDS and other than direct hits many ship critical effects can be turned over using an action. So I was thinking of it sort of as a repair theme along with the potential of flat out failing and being irreparable. But as you said with so many TIEs at 2-3 hull odds are it would die first before having to worry about fixing stuff. Maybe I should have it discarded after the first face up damage card but then the point cost would be too high.

Thirdly after three? Well besides your numbering system no com relay evade is not for all intents and purposes and I already stated my arguments previously. You can go back and read them yourself for I am not going to repeat myself in this thread. As for Omega leader IMHO he would have not been broken with pulse ray shielding, especially with the ion token which will make him very predictable in his high pilot skill.

Quote

Well besides your numbering system no com relay evade is not for all intents and purposes and I already stated my arguments previously. You can go back and read them yourself for I am not going to repeat myself in this thread.

I did. Apologies, the comment was badly written - no, retainable evade isn't shield regen, but I think it is easily the same value, so having both is a line to be cost carefully and with sone trepidation.

I'd happily consider a discard-on-first-damage at a different cost if you think 4 points is too much.

"If you have no shields" is the correct xwing rules wording -see R2D2 crew card.

There are four real bugbear pilots you have to balance this for:

Vessery/Ryad - alright, yes, this is two pilots. But despite the much bemoaned nerf, 90% of the time it's an agility 3 ship with focus and free evade, and as a very expensive fighter, even an expensive modifications cost vanishes into the price of a defender.

Omega Leader - yes, its only one ship locked. But a modification sits in a slot OL currently doesnt need, and a ship thats already a nightmare to hit in a one on one duel, and the 'one shield limit' is meaningless.

Quickdraw - to me, the big one, again,lightweight frame means agility three (ish), potentially with sensor cluster making her hard to hit, but most importantly shield regen paired with quickdraws ability (especially baffle/rage) sounds extremely abusable as the shield comes back, without needing an action or token cost, in time to burn it again in the following activation phase...

You know what the Imperial's should get?

Something that can fire Torpedos and Missiles in 360 degrees.