I posted this originally in another thread, but I think it deserves its own thread.

I want to see more Squadron mechanics. A new kind of card that applies to an entire list. Call this card type "Wing Leaders" and design them around buffing generics. It would be a full-size card like a pilot card, would always be unique and have special restrictions and abilities.

Examples:

• Black Leader - Your squad must contain at least three non-unique ships with the words "Black Squadron" in the pilot name. At the end of the Activation Phase, assign one focus token to all friendly ships with the words "Black Squadron" in the pilot name.

• Arvel Crynyd - Your squad must contain at least 2 pilot cards with the name "Green Squadron Pilot". At the start of the Combat Phase, you may discard this card. If you do, all friendly ships with the "Green Squadron Pilot" name may roll 1 additional attack die until the end of the Combat Phase.

I have other sample ideas, but I'd live to have input from the community first. What's a good point cost for something like this? Could we create a whole other class of upgrades for Wing Leaders? What are your ideas for a Wing Leader?

FFG dev team, if you're listening, please make "Wing Leaders" happen. I'll do it in casual play with or without your help.

I really like your two examples. I also like the idea that they are an Out-Of-Play card that affects the ships on the table. (I had a similar idea for Commander Cards that affect the entire game, but I digress.) Cost wise, I think they would need to be 3+ points.

• Red Leader: Your squad must contain at least 3 non-unique ships with the name "Red Squadron" in their pilot name. When attacking with a Proton Torpedo, change one "blank" to a "hit".

Its a pretty common idea. Usually suggested as "Squadron Upgrades" or something similar. I think it is likely we will get something along those lines in X-Wing eventually, just a question of when. they are certainly aware of the concept.

Im all for wing leaders. They would be far more interesting than conditions, thats for sure!

I'm all for this idea... probably posted something almost identical to the OT a dozen times by now... but 40k went OTT with it and it's still suffering from it.

If it is done to reward thematic lists that need a little boost to be viable... all for it. I'd love to see the old TIEs, ignored alphabet ships, sidelined scum etc get some viability again.

Looking for scum help, "Black Sun" composition bonuses would be a good place to help marginal units.

9 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I really like your two examples. I also like the idea that they are an Out-Of-Play card that affects the ships on the table. (I had a similar idea for Commander Cards that affect the entire game, but I digress.) Cost wise, I think they would need to be 3+ points.

• Red Leader: Your squad must contain at least 3 non-unique ships with the name "Red Squadron" in their pilot name. When attacking with a Proton Torpedo, change one "blank" to a "hit".

I like the idea but I think it is mathematically impossible to have more than 1 torpedo that way...

10 hours ago, Lobokai said:

Looking for scum help, "Black Sun" composition bonuses would be a good place to help marginal units.

Yes.

• Prince Xixor - "Your squad must contain at least 3 ships with the words "Black Sun" in the pilot name. Once per round, after a friendly ship performs an attack that hits, that ship may remove 1 stress token."

10 hours ago, BlueMusketeer28 said:

I like the idea but I think it is mathematically impossible to have more than 1 torpedo that way...

Play Epic or go home

On a more serious note, you could expand the concept to include Rookies.

• Phoenix Squadron: Your squad must contain at least 3 non-unique ships with the name "Phoenix Squadron" in their pilot name. When a ship is destroyed, it may transfer one unused token to another Phoenix Squadron member.

Why three other squad mates? Two others should suffice, and give the iconic Leader and Wingmen 'V' formation.

Some other examples, but using title cards for both leader and squadron.

Rogue Leader (Squadron title, Unique Rebel Only, X-Wing only, PS 6 or higher, 2 points). Your action bar gains the [barrel roll] icon. After you perform an action, a ship with the Rogue Squadron title in range 1-2 may perform a free boost or barrel roll action.

Rogue Squadron (Squadron title, Rebel Only, X-Wing only, 0 points). When Rogue Leader is within Range 1-3, your action bar gains the [barrel roll] icon.

Blue Leader (Squadron title, Unique, Rebel Only, B-Wing only, PS 5 or higher, 2 points). When another Blue Squadron member is within Range 1, your agility score increases by 1.

Blue Squadron (Squadron title, Rebel Only, B-Wing only, PS 4 or lower, 0 points). When Blue Leader is within Range 1, your agility score increases by 1.

Grey Leader (Squadron title, Unique, Rebel Only, Y-wing only, PS 6 or higher, 0 points). If you do not have one, add an [EPT] icon to your upgrade bar and you may equip an [EPT] upgrade. When another Grey Squadron member is within Range 1-2, you may use your [EPT] upgrade.

Grey Squadron (Squadron title, Rebel Only, Y-wing only, PS 5 or lower, 1 point). When a Grey Leader is within Range 1-2, you may use Grey Leader's [EPT] upgrade.

Red Leader (Squadron title, Unique, Rebel Only, X-Wing only, PS 6 or higher, 1 point). When another Red Squadron member is within Range 1-2, and you are attacking or defending, you may reroll 1 blank die.

Red Squadron (Squadron title, Rebel Only, X-Wing only, PS 4 or lower, 1 point). When Red Leader is within Range 1-2, and you are attacking or defending, you may reroll 1 blank die.

Black Leader (Squadron title, Unique, Imperial Only, TIE Advanced Only, PS 6 or higher, 1 point). You may equip a modification at a [-3] point cost. When another Black Squadron member is within Range 1 and you perform a Focus action, you may perform a free Evade action.

Black Squadron (Squadron title, Imperial Only, TIE Fighter Only, PS 5 or lower, 1 point). When Black Leader is within Range 1 and performs a Focus action, you may perform a free Focus action.

Gamma Leader (Squadron title, Unique, Imperial Only, TIE Bomber Only, PS 6 or higher, 1 point). When another Gamma Squadron member is within Range 1 and you perform a Target Lock action, gain a Focus token.

Gamma Squadron (Squadron title, Imperial Only, TIE Bomber Only, PS 4 or lower, 1 point). When Gamma Leader is within Range 1 and performs a Target Lock action, you may acquire a Target Lock on the same target.

Twin Suns Leader (Squadron title, Unique, Z-95 only, PS 6 or higher, 1 point). When another Twin Suns Squadron member is within range 1-2, during the Combat phase, you may treat your pilot skill as 2 points higher.

Twin Suns Squadron (Squadron title, Z-95 only, PS 4 or lower, 1 point). When Twin Suns Leader is within range 1-2, during the Combat phase, you may treat your pilot skill as 2 points higher.

1 hour ago, GrimmyV said:

Why three other squad mates? Two others should suffice, and give the iconic Leader and Wingmen 'V' formation.

According to old WEG materials, we've got the whole thing wrong beginning from the title. We want a Flight Leader, and that would be a four-pilot unit:

1 element = 1 leader + 1 wingman (2 craft)

1 flight = 2 elements (4 craft)

1 squadron = 3 flights (12 craft)

1 wing = 3 squadrons: OR 6 squadrons:

(36 craft) (Rebel) (72 craft) (Imperial)

If you want to discuss this over beers, I'll gladly be your Beer Flight Leader

38 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

According to old WEG materials, we've got the whole thing wrong beginning from the title. We want a Flight Leader, and that would be a four-pilot unit:

1 element = 1 leader + 1 wingman (2 craft)

1 flight = 2 elements (4 craft)

1 squadron = 3 flights (12 craft)

1 wing = 3 squadrons: OR 6 squadrons:

(36 craft) (Rebel) (72 craft) (Imperial)

If you want to discuss this over beers, I'll gladly be your Beer Flight Leader

I love the old d6 WEG RPG but they made up so much stuff without bothering to see if it was consistent with the movies or anything else in the decade before they started producing stuff. So everything from the original Marvel series to the droids and Ewoks cartoons to even the radio dramas were just ignored. I was surprised they actually printer a Han Solo in the Corporate Sector sourcebook since that acknowledged that EU material existed outside of and before their own! At any rate, I suppose the Imperial Sourcebook Order of Battle is as ligit as any other stuff. We do see flights of TIEs in the OT, usually chasing down the Falcon. Do two bombers and two fighters make a flight? We also see lone sentry TIEs as well as the Dark Lord himself flanked by 2 wingmen. The battle of Endor seems to show fighters in formations of elements and flights during the initial engagement only for everything to go sideways real quick. So perhaps they actually paid attention this time. They still got the size of the Executor (and it's class name-seriously, Super class?) totally wrong, as well as ignored A-wing and B-wing fighters prior to ANH in Droids, which is now canon thanks to Rebels. It's a mixed bag, but at least they dreamed up some awesome names for all those alien species! Rodians, Twileks, Duras, ithorians, so much better than Sand People, Mon Calamari and Klaatu Barada Nikto. And get your class and level crap away from SW and back into D&D were it belongs.

Rant mode: off

25 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

We do see flights of TIEs in the OT, usually chasing down the Falcon. Do two bombers and two fighters make a flight? We also see lone sentry TIEs as well as the Dark Lord himself flanked by 2 wingmen.

Four TIEs does seem pretty typical, and I would say 2x2 is a "mixed flight," with 1 pilot being the Flight Leader. And maybe Vader lost 1 TIE before heading into the trench. . .

WEG was SW for me during the Dark Times, so they do hold a special place in my love of SW. When I ran RPG campaigns in the SW universe, they were my source. Sheeeeet, Wookieepedia was 20 years down the road. Heck, there wasn't even the internet to host it yet!

Personally, I have loved seeing WEG stuff show up on screen: the Juggernaut in RO, the Gigantorian in RO, and the Interdictor in Rebels. Instead of coming up with new things, they have begun honoring the old. It makes the 1990s SW fan in me very happy.

4 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Why three other squad mates? Two others should suffice, and give the iconic Leader and Wingmen 'V' formation.

Are you assuming these "Wing Leaders" are in the play area with the affected ships?

That's not what this thread is about. These "Wing Leader" cards would affect the game from the sidelines. Thematically it would represent the intangible influence leaders can have on subordinates, even when the leader is not immediately present.

14 minutes ago, jmswood said:

Are you assuming these "Wing Leaders" are in the play area with the affected ships?

That's not what this thread is about. These "Wing Leader" cards would affect the game from the sidelines. Thematically it would represent the intangible influence leaders can have on subordinates, even when the leader is not immediately present.

Sorry didn't read the OP close enough.

And yeah I don't think we need a new mechanic like that, just a card sitting there not connected to anything. Starts looking more like a card game instead of a miniatures game. Might work better as a title-like upgrade called 'squadron upgrade' that can be applied to any non-unique ships and only one unique ship per squad. Might even have a different (weaker?) effect for uniques than non-uniques.

also easy to do mix-ship squadrons like Blue Squadron at Scarif or Gold Squadron at Endor (with the FAQing Falcon as the leader!)

1 hour ago, GrimmyV said:

Sorry didn't read the OP close enough.

And yeah I don't think we need a new mechanic like that, just a card sitting there not connected to anything. Starts looking more like a card game instead of a miniatures game. Might work better as a title-like upgrade called 'squadron upgrade' that can be applied to any non-unique ships and only one unique ship per squad. Might even have a different (weaker?) effect for uniques than non-uniques.

also easy to do mix-ship squadrons like Blue Squadron at Scarif or Gold Squadron at Endor (with the FAQing Falcon as the leader!)

I tend to agree, I thought the idea was flying formations of uniform squadrons making the generics and some less used elites (Crynid and green, Dutch and Gold, Salm and Gray, Wedge and/or Garven and Red ect.). Which sounds like a very interesting mechanic to me.

2 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

And yeah I don't think we need a new mechanic like that, just a card sitting there not connected to anything . Starts looking more like a card game instead of a miniatures game. Might work better as a title-like upgrade called 'squadron upgrade' that can be applied to any non-unique ships and only one unique ship per squad. Might even have a different (weaker?) effect for uniques than non-uniques.

Yeah, what a stupid idea. Why have one big card sitting there not affiliated with anything when you could have 3-4 little cards cluttering up the table but affiliated with the associated ships?

1 hour ago, BlueMusketeer28 said:

I tend to agree, I thought the idea was flying formations of uniform squadrons making the generics and some less used elites (Crynid and green, Dutch and Gold, Salm and Gray, Wedge and/or Garven and Red ect.). Which sounds like a very interesting mechanic to me.

It still is. He's just choosing to implement it as a non-title "battlefield" card. Which leaves the Title slot open for other things, in truth (such as the T-65B "fix" card, if it ever happens). That way, you can build ships as normal, then say "hey, for 3 points, this is Red Squadron."

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Yeah, what a stupid idea. Why have one big card sitting there not affiliated with anything when you could have 3-4 little cards cluttering up the table but affiliated with the associated ships?

Well yeah, it's the principle of the thing. I mean, if you allow just any ol cards on the table then what's next, your own side board that you can switch out?

Oh. Wait, the new scum epic. Yeah...

Quote

It still is. He's just choosing to implement it as a non-title "battlefield" card. Which leaves the Title slot open for other things, in truth (such as the T-65B "fix" card, if it ever happens). That way, you can build ships as normal, then say "hey, for 3 points, this is Red Squadron."

Dude I can fly Red Squadron for 0 pts extra right now! And I get what I pay for too. Doh!

4 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Well yeah, it's the principle of the thing. I mean, if you allow just any ol cards on the table then what's next , your own side board that you can switch out?

Dude I can fly Red Squadron for 0 pts extra right now ! And I get what I pay for too. Doh!

Some guy telling you he is flying the Ace of Spades Squadron that never takes stress. . .

Not with special abilities, U ain't!

9 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

According to old WEG materials, we've got the whole thing wrong beginning from the title. We want a Flight Leader, and that would be a four-pilot unit:

1 element = 1 leader + 1 wingman (2 craft)

1 flight = 2 elements (4 craft)

1 squadron = 3 flights (12 craft)

1 wing = 3 squadrons: OR 6 squadrons:

(36 craft) (Rebel) (72 craft) (Imperial)

If you want to discuss this over beers, I'll gladly be your Beer Flight Leader

Beers? If they're dark, I'm in ?

9 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

If you want to discuss this over beers, I'll gladly be your Beer Flight Leader

Beer Squadron comes after Dinner squadron, but before Silly Squadron, I think.

10 minutes ago, Hawkstrike said:

Beer Squadron comes after Dinner squadron, but before Silly Squadron, I think.

I believe, and have been 'proven' in at least my mind that Beer Squadron should always come prior to Dinner Squadron, as that's when you get the full impact of the might of Beer Squadron. It's abilities and power can then be easily dovetailed into the foray of Dinner Squadron. To your point, Beer Squadron can come back into the fray post-Dinner Squadron to perform any needed mop up activities, but it should never be regulated to only such actions, unless overall engagements prove to be extremely lengthy in nature.

Well, if Beer Squadron and Dinner Squadron don't engage near simultaneously, Silly Squadron shows up early, and there goes the engagement.

17 minutes ago, Hawkstrike said:

Well, if Beer Squadron and Dinner Squadron don't engage near simultaneously, Silly Squadron shows up early, and there goes the engagement.

This can occur, if your pilots are green, or if Beer Squadron comes in the fight bearing too much ordinance early on. You make fine points sir.