I rolled Runewars out to my gaming group last night (report and critique to follow), but we did run into one rules roadblock that derailed the game for about 10-15 min. Otherwise, I knew the rules well enough to keep the game flowing. Thanks in large part to the responsiveness of Corey in quickly answering the community's questions (and releasing the FAQ in the nick of time). Here's the question:

The human player sent 11 units into a battle against the undead (overstackoing for a battle) with a Mobilize order. The undead played a tactics card (tactical retreat I believe, the game is still in the car) which specifically states "the battle is canceled" (and allowed the undead to retreat without routing his units). What happens to the human units?

A) They get returned to their starting territories because there was not a battle (we didn't believe this since they move before resolving the battle)

B) They stay in the territory and are not allowed to retreat the overstacking. The rules state that if the player WINS the battle they may retreat overstacking. However since there was no battle, the humans did not win.

C) Effectively count the canceled battle as a victosious battle for the humans, allowing them to retreat the overstacked 3 units as normal.

This brought up another question though. Since the human player used Mobilize, he got to resolve the card aa second time, and could launch a battle (with different units that were not in a hex containing one of his activation markers). Could he launch a battle or not? We decided that he could not have it both ways. If we decided on option (above):

B) The battle was canceled, the result did not allow for the retreat, due to canceling the battle, and thus no battle occurred and he could launch a new battle with his supremecy bonus on Mobilize.

C) Then we said it was a pseudo battle because he got to retreat, and he could not launch another battle, even though the battle was "canceled".

We could not decide so we flipped a coin (actually flipped a dragon rune) to decide between option B and C. What do you all think, and if Corey could chime in that would rock!

This is a very interesting question. Without having the relevant components in front of me I couldn't say (leaning toward no battle happens but they can retreat, and he can start another battle with the supremacy bonus). I personally don't put much stock in consensus decisions for these games (and I know you don't either), even if one can even be reached. You are going to have better luck asking your question directly at http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_faq.asp . I think we have been lucky recently with Corey answering questions on these boards because it is a new game.

I would rule this as a battle with the humans winning, and staying the territory (then losing 3 units due to stacking limits). I figure it that way because the routing rules are covered in the battle section AND the opportunity to play the tactic card happens in the battle rules. Its like step 2 of doing a battle. Step one place the token and move units off the area, step two pre battle tactics, etc.

So the battle started, the undead player routed, the human wins, and three human units disperse into the countryside due to overstocking (ie stacking rules kick in, three units are lost).

I think you mean 3 human units retreat, rather than die. You are arguing that a battle was started. At the end of a battle, the winner has to retreat any units in excess of the limit per area of 8, they don't just die.

Also, step 3 of the "Battle" sequence is to play any tactics cards that are used at the "start of battle". It may be that this tactics card is used at a different time (specified on the card) and doesn't fit into this category.

The Tactical Retreat definitely fits into a "start of battle" category as it is a playable reaction to the card-owner being attacked

I would agree with jtwing that the battle definitely went into effect and while the majority of the battle phases are "cancelled" it is still considered a loss for the defender (card-owner) as his units ARE retreating (which is a general loss result for a regular battle but with routing involved); therefore IMO, the activation token is placed and remains on that hex, the attacker can retreat his overstacked units, and utilize the Supremacy Bonus of the Mobilize card (which makes me wonder if he could actually re-activate the units he retreated due to overstack)

Your first point doesn't follow, because it may say something like "Play: Immediately after an enemy has moved units into an area you control but before a battle starts." on the card. I don't know how it is phrased, so I can't really talk about it.

Regarding reactivating the retreated units, they will be routed from the retreat, and routed units cannot move.

Yes, broken is right, the retreated units would be routed. The only question is if the human player could use his supremecy bonus to launch a battle with his second activation or if he could only diplomicize, consolidate, etc. Is he considered as having "a battle" when the previous battle was "canceled"?

Either way, the only units that could participate are entirely different units from those that participated in the first escipades.

For broken: The card's activation is stated as follows: "Play at the start of battle in which you are defending", so there is a "battle" initiated and activation token placed, followed by saying, in effect, to cancel the battle, then you (the defending player) retreat your units to a friendly, adjacent territory or destroys them, followed by a specific mentioning that these retreated units are not routed

As I see it, the only question is whether or not "cancelling" the battle removes the activation token from that hex and the attacker simply occupies the hex as an empty territory, or does it consider it a win for the attacker and the token stays; the human player can definitely use the supremacy bonus to launch a battle with his second activation as long as the units involved do not restart on a hex with an activation token (again falling on the question of whether the token remains on the board after Tactical Retreat)

I don't think that is the question. Without a doubt the attacker stays in the hex, and it remains activated. The question is whether or not this counts as a battle for purposes of a. being able to retreat excess attacking units (or have the excess be destroyed, if not) and b. being able to start another battle with the supremacy bonus of mobilize, since you can only start one battle with the card, even if you make two activations (this is a rule in the rulebook). The activation token remains in either case, because you activate the area to move into it, not to start a battle. Personally, I don't think there is enough information available to make a real decision on this. You can make one with which you can play in the meantime, but this issue requires a ruling from Corey (which is why it should be submitted to the rules question page).

I agree that this is definitely a battle.

The only problem I see is that the terminology in " cancel the battle " is not very well chosen and that's exactly the part that leads to this discussion.

It probably would have been better if the card had stated something like " .. resolve this battle in the following way ... etc "

DarkElf said:

This.

I sent the question through the FFG rules question system. I just got an email and here's the reply:

"This would be treated as if the Human player had won the battle. He would be able to retreat the overstacking units.

I hope this answers your question!"

It clearly answers if teh untis can retreat. It did not explicitly say if the player could use mobilize to launch an attack after this, but based on the above wroding (in the reply) I am happy to say it counts as a battle and the mobilize card could not be used to launch a battle after this.

Just wanted to keep everyone in the loop!

Thanks for letting us know. I agree with DE that the word "cancel" is what is confusing and it was only a matter of time before this came up at my gaming table.