Seems like the hot topic.

I do not own any, I do not plan to buy any. I do have a few observations and questions.

* A squadron is supposed to be 12 starfighters, working together amid the big scary ships. Cool. Kinda like a collective blip on the radar, and if you have any hope of damaging the big boys (ships), those miniscule fighters need to stick together and work as a team. This is the only other granularity issue, wherein a single mini does not represent a single vessel. I like it well enough.

* Irregular squadrons are lone dudes in larger (but still small) ships. The minis are no doubt big for the ship size, but again, basically thought of as a radar blip. Gotta like 'em, Han et.al. Great!

* Flotillas, for some weird reason, are a couple of non-miniscule ships that decide to always be next to each other. This irks me. The Falcon doesn't have to fly permanently in formation with Outrider, why would an unarmed cargo transport most of the size of the CR-90/Raider need to?

* In fact, why did you bring your unarmed cargo transports to a fleet engagement in the first place? We only see them in ESB because they are like U-Hauls loaded with gear, fleeing Echo Base. They aren't there to fight on purpose! The Rebels didn't mean to bring them into harm's way. In this game the GR-75 should be an objective token or somesuch.

* That being said, I realize Admiral Raddus had some of these container ships at the Battle of Scarif. I can only assume they were for troop transport or similar. Didn't add much, other than possibly scratching Vader's paint job.

I don't buy the retcon that somehow "Container Ships...in Space" are useful for coordinating attacks in a fleet engagement. I definitely don't buy that any sort of leader figure would be riding on one for this purpose, then knowingly go into combat aboard it.

I wish these ships flew singly, possibly even on (modified?) squadron bases.

Add in the auto-include nature and the vociferous complaints about Flotillas, and you have an annoying game feature, to my mind.

Questions:

1. How many ships is a single flotilla base meant to represent?

2. Any canon precedence for thinking that Gozantis always travel in packs?

Ahahah I thought the same thing when I watched rogue one "you imperials better watch yourselves. We have unnamed transport ships! "

Scary I know

You sort of just don't see them operate solo often.

Seeing them hem at places like we did or aScariff always bugged me, but maybe they act as a space based EWACS type thing?

Some of the EU had ships with cargo bays converted into less efficient hangars in order to dump more fighters into a fleet. I think they stuffed Wraith Squadron plus some TIEs into a CR90 by ditching escape pods and modifying cargo bays. Maybe that is how they are meant to be represented.

11 minutes ago, evanger said:

* In fact, why did you bring your unarmed cargo transports to a fleet engagement in the first place? We only see them in ESB because they are like U-Hauls loaded with gear, fleeing Echo Base. They aren't there to fight on purpose! The Rebels didn't mean to bring them into harm's way. In this game the GR-75 should be an objective token or somesuch.

Combat support, signals (comms), any number of non-fighting roles you need in a fight... as represented by their role in Armada

Apparently they were fire ships at Endor, at least according to Legends.

See, this is part of the reason I think squadron value doesn't just represent what a ship can carry but also how much they can coordinate.

I believe GR75s are often present because they offer assistance other than guns.

A.) commanding non mission essential fighter squadrons, or taking command of squadrons who lost coordinators in battle

B.) Coordinating fleet formation and communications

C.) Emergency crews for damaged ships


They exist to take the load off the capital ships so crews can do their jobs without becoming over burdened in combat

The number of Flotilla's on a base never bothered me. In fact, I like that there's multiple to a single base as it makes the fleets look bigger. And maybe it makes sense that all those little ships would stick together in one place so the bigger ships have an easier time protecting them.

GR-75's showed up in battle during Endor and Scarif. Gozantis show up alongside various Imperial fleets in Rebels and were seen alongside Separatist fleets in Clone Wars. So both ships certainly have a purpose in battle even if we don't see it on screen. The fleet commands seem to give us a clue.

The Gozantis are weaponized and the GR-75's can be given weapons to fight in a fleet battle, if the ship cards for Armada are to mean anything.

Putting flotillas on a squadron base and have it move like a squadron doesn't make much sense to me, as they aren't squadrons. They don't/can't move like squadrons. They move like capital ships. Itty bitty capital ships.

Gameplay > Fluff.

As far as I'm concerned this whole Flotilla problem has arisen from FFG choosing the incorrect name for these models. What we have in the game are actually Auxiliary ships as used by most seagoing navies. Seeing as nearly every type of spaced based navy bases itself on real world navies it's safe to assume Star Wars is the same. We have ships in the role of Battleships, Destroyers, Cruisers, Frigates... So why would a Star Wars fleet not have ships that fill the support role? Auxiliaries are used for re-fueling, troop transport, repairs (hello Repair Crew Rebel Transports, my personal fave!), even research and development of new technologies (the Gozanti's flying alongside that Interdictor could be full of scientists!).

As to what the number of models on a base or how many fighters a squadron represents? This is an 'abstract' space game. It doesn't really matter. If you get that hung up on those questions try asking yourself why we're representing a three dimensional space combat on a flat two dimensional plane!

4 hours ago, evanger said:

In fact, why did you bring your unarmed cargo transports to a fleet engagement in the first place? We only see them in ESB because they are like U-Hauls loaded with gear, fleeing Echo Base. They aren't there to fight on purpose! The Rebels didn't mean to bring them into harm's way.

You seem to be forgetting/ignoring Endor where the Rebels brought them into battle by design. They clearly must serve some part of their battle plan.

Not sure why you care so much that their are 2 together.

Solution: chop one off its base to get that single Gozanti

Also, counter question: does it really matter?

I assume flotillas stay in groups so they can cover each other with anti-squadron fire. A lone GR-75 seems like very easy prey for basically any fighters that happen to have a second to kill it. The Gozanti has more effective weaponry on it but I'd still rather not be on one if there are any Rebel starfighters closing in. THey're also too big to properly move like squadrons, although I'd have been okay with a "tiny" base size to represent a single auxiliary ship. But with only one I question what the point would be.

I do agree that it's dumb putting the Admiral in a flotilla. I mean, I get that it's effective but I wish it weren't allowed. It doesn't really make sense lore-wise and it sounds annoying to play against.

3 hours ago, Hockeyzombie said:

I do agree that it's dumb putting the Admiral in a flotilla. I mean, I get that it's effective but I wish it weren't allowed. It doesn't really make sense lore-wise and it sounds annoying to play against.

In real life Navies the Admirals 'Flagship' is whatever ship is currently flying the Admirals flag. They used to be the largest ship in the fleet during the sail age as they had to accommodate the Admirals stateroom where all the fleet captains would meet and plan. Lately Command Ships are often not equipped for direct combat and during the Second World War it became popular for Admirals to prefer smaller, faster vessels to larger 'high priority target' ships. I personally don't see a problem with an Admiral in Armada co-ordinating the battle from a Flotilla that is away from the main battle. I think it's something that would fit in with the 'lore' on the Rebel side more (fewer high ranking staff, less resources, etc). I don't think Vader would be happy sitting in a 'tugboat' though!

55 minutes ago, HoundsTooth said:

In real life Navies the Admirals 'Flagship' is whatever ship is currently flying the Admirals flag. They used to be the largest ship in the fleet during the sail age as they had to accommodate the Admirals stateroom where all the fleet captains would meet and plan. Lately Command Ships are often not equipped for direct combat and during the Second World War it became popular for Admirals to prefer smaller, faster vessels to larger 'high priority target' ships. I personally don't see a problem with an Admiral in Armada co-ordinating the battle from a Flotilla that is away from the main battle. I think it's something that would fit in with the 'lore' on the Rebel side more (fewer high ranking staff, less resources, etc). I don't think Vader would be happy sitting in a 'tugboat' though!

I feel like the Arquitens makes the most sense. Big enough to have room for command resources, stays at the edge of combat and fights at a distance, tankier than most small ships but not a "must kill" like anything with Star Destroyer in the name. I do see the argument for Rebel commanders on flotillas, but the CR90 seems more fitting. Partly because it has some of the same strengths as the Arquitens and partly because being important and on something as frail as a GR-75 seems unwise. Granted, in lore it's not like Imperial commanders would magically know which part of the flotilla to shoot at. Some realism is lost to the importance of both players being allowed to see upgrade cards after all.

In my experience a flotilla on the edge of the battlefield is far more resilient than a CR90.

Wookieepedia/Legends says the GR-75 has a crew of 6. And usually no guns.

Battlefield roles include: transport (cargo and troops).

Modified variants include more ways to say "cargo ship": shuttle, fuel tanker, salvage ship, hospital ship, landing craft.

If you don't care about getting the vessel back: fire ship (i.e. transport explosives).

If you aren't the good guys: slave ship (i.e. transport slaves).

To my mind, this vessel has no SW history of coordination of starfighter attacks or anything else during a space battle. As is befitting to a lumbering transport.

Army semi trucks don't ride next to main battle tanks during a land war, and naval supply ships don't radio in to coordinate the efforts of fighter planes launched from a carrier. Neither cargo vehicle is the transportation method of choice for Generals or Admirals.

9 minutes ago, evanger said:

Wookieepedia/Legends says the GR-75 has a crew of 6. And usually no guns.

Battlefield roles include: transport (cargo and troops).

Modified variants include more ways to say "cargo ship": shuttle, fuel tanker, salvage ship, hospital ship, landing craft.

If you don't care about getting the vessel back: fire ship (i.e. transport explosives).

If you aren't the good guys: slave ship (i.e. transport slaves).

To my mind, this vessel has no SW history of coordination of starfighter attacks or anything else during a space battle. As is befitting to a lumbering transport.

Army semi trucks don't ride next to main battle tanks during a land war, and naval supply ships don't radio in to coordinate the efforts of fighter planes launched from a carrier. Neither cargo vehicle is the transportation method of choice for Generals or Admirals.

Wookiepaedia also lists one of their uses as 'Shuttle'... Maybe the shuttle was transporting your Admiral to the fleets flagship when the enemy appeared

The article also says that they can carry up to 90 passengers, their hulls were impenetrable to Imperial Sensors and they could be equipped with Jamming equipment. Sounds a perfect base of operations for flight or ground assault coordinators!

8 hours ago, evanger said:

Wookieepedia/Legends says the GR-75 has a crew of 6. And usually no guns.

Battlefield roles include: transport (cargo and troops).

Modified variants include more ways to say "cargo ship": shuttle, fuel tanker, salvage ship, hospital ship, landing craft.

If you don't care about getting the vessel back: fire ship (i.e. transport explosives).

If you aren't the good guys: slave ship (i.e. transport slaves).

To my mind, this vessel has no SW history of coordination of starfighter attacks or anything else during a space battle. As is befitting to a lumbering transport.

Army semi trucks don't ride next to main battle tanks during a land war, and naval supply ships don't radio in to coordinate the efforts of fighter planes launched from a carrier. Neither cargo vehicle is the transportation method of choice for Generals or Admirals.

Sure, but we've seen the Rebels bring them to large battles before and not use them as fire ships. Movies are at the top of the pile, so they must have some kind of use in a combat zone. Communication shenanigans and fighter coordination seem like the most likely.

Flotillas in the Star Wars universe have very different roles. The Imperial Gozantis operate often individually and their main role is scouting, interplanetarly policing, and supporting capital ships. Something they do wonderfully in Armada thanks to their limited weaponry and versatile slots. Did you play a Tua+ECM Suppressor with Slicer Tools for example?

On the other hand Rebel GR-75s are mainly transports. They transport crew, supply, bacta, parts etc. They are not by any standard battleships, in fact a YT-1300 is better suited for the job. But they are the supply wagons of the Rebel fleet, something that makes very much sense even in today's naval fleets. In the game rebel flotillas are much more useful that they actually are in the movies but that's necessary to be in par with he Gozantis. And obviously a supply ship isn't very helpful in combat situations. Although they could have had some support cards that could have give a limited range bonus to a combat ship (like you may reroll 1 dice if you have a flotilla within 1-3. or something similar)

10 hours ago, Norell said:

Although they could have had some support cards that could have give a limited range bonus to a combat ship (like you may reroll 1 dice if you have a flotilla within 1-3. or something similar)

Like Toryn Farr! I think FFG did a great job capturing the feel of support ships. I personally love flotillas and think they've added a greater depth and diversity to the game. But that's just my 2 cents.

How about a 'fleet support' upgrade card that says add a 'Support Team' slot for 1 or 2 points?

and new generic title for all flotillas that says any friendly ship in range 1-2 may exhausted this card to use any support team upgrade.

So even though the GR-75's were at Endor and Scariff we're going with a Wikipedia article which is neither canon nor supported by any of the Lucasfilm's staff.

So what does the GR-75 really do to support a battle? We haven't had an explanation but they were there by writer's choice in both major battles. So maybe we should let the actual Canon stand and not rely on a Wikipedia article which are known to be very very opinion based and unreliable.

I totally get the question and why you want answers, and a novel should come out to explain it sometime in my opinion, but it was a purposefully made choice so there must have been a thoughtful reason. Even if it's "I am not sure yet what they do but the Rebels are desperate and would use all their resources in a battle."