https://www.shutupandsitdown.com/review-android-netrunner-terminal-directive/

Give the first half of this a read, see if any of it sounds familiar or you have similar experiences.

Similar experience with Netrunner, similar experience with X-Wing *sigh*

X-wing campaign box would be lovely.

X-wing campaign box with sticker sheets to fix the prices of a whole bunch of mis-priced ships would be a dream come true.

X-wing campaign box with sticker sheets to fix the names of a whole bunch of ships that should have different names (T-65 X-Wing, anyone) would also be a dream come true.

One can but hope.

Despite all the balance questions, the complaints and complaints about complaints, we sometimes forget:

X-Wing should be fun to play.

There are those who can have fun purely by winning, and that's ok. But I'd wager most players don't. Most want to have fun on the way, no matter the outcome.
And because FFG is a company, because they need to make money, and because most money is made if a maximum of people will play, together this means that the majority motivation is important.

FFG would do well to release a campaign set. They did for Netrunner, they did for Armada. I'm hopeful that they will eventually for X-Wing. I just hope they won't miss the timing.

All too often these community wishes are treated as strategic reserve that can be released when game popularity is declining. And all too often that does not work.

FWIW, I'd also like to see a campaign box in order to get out and play a campaign. I could see doing that with my normal X Wing group, but I could potentially also see doing it with my normal non-x-wing gaming group to supplement our Imperial Assault campaign, or just as a roleplaying campaign in and of itself. They're the kind of group who wouldn't get into x-wing as a miniatures wargame but would probably play it as a medium-term campaign.

I'd really like to see a campaign box.

11 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

There are those who can have fun purely by winning, and that's ok. But I'd wager most players don't. Most want to have fun on the way, no matter the outcome.

I think you're wrong. My experience from pretty much every game I've played is that most players want to play what they find fun, but they also want it to be good enough they have a decent shot at winning.

I think players who have fun while being destroyed over and over (no matter the outcome) are just as rare as the players who have fun only from the game result.

17 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

All too often these community wishes are treated as strategic reserve that can be released when game popularity is declining.

I can think of a couple of ships and "fixes" that fall into this category too.

1 minute ago, LordBlades said:

most players want to play what they find fun, but they also want it to be good enough they have a decent shot at winning.

Very much this.

4 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

I think you're wrong. My experience from pretty much every game I've played is that most players want to play what they find fun, but they also want it to be good enough they have a decent shot at winning.

I think players who have fun while being destroyed over and over (no matter the outcome) are just as rare as the players who have fun only from the game result.

That's not quite what I meant. If it's a chore or work to win then it's less fun. Winning has to be possible, absolutely. But at what cost?

Those that don't care about the costs are extremely rare. Which means FFG should cater to the rest.

Edit: Or in other words: If people can't enjoy the game, then who keeps playing? Not many.
Winning is part of the fun, certainly, but it's not exclusive. The game has to be enjoyable, no matter the outcome. I phrased it differentely ( "Most want to have fun on the way, no matter the outcome.") but I stand by that statement.

I started X-Wing only last year, but I certainly have a familiar feeling reading this. I played against a friend who's much more into tournaments and meta than I am, and he brought Paratanni (back before the nerf) to practice his own flying. Which is legit of course, but I wanted to play triple T70, and you can imagine how that went. The top meta lists, if flown half-way competently, will kill my own mediocre build anytime and in a hurry, and that's kind of a problem because I don't enjoy the current meta hits for Rebels. And I generally hate Atani mindlink, and Palob, and all of the other "free tokens and you can't do this and that"-stuff of Scum, but that may be only taste. Anyway, I have no intention of quitting, and we're playing more casual lists now, so everything is good. But I don't see myself going to tournament anytime soon.

Anybody can "net deck," but I'd rather fly something I feel like I have an attachment to.

Hm, I don't know. In X-Wing I find it a lot easier to build and have fun with bad lists, because you can set the frame very granularily. I like to say "I want to fly these ships (like 2 TIE Bombers, a certain pilot...)" and then build the absolutely best list I can come up with under those circumstances. I can pull punches on one level of listbuilding, but don't have to on another. Card games only have one level to their deckbuilding. Putting in bad cards will make your experience worse, no matter what.

2 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Hm, I don't know. In X-Wing I find it a lot easier to build and have fun with bad lists, because you can set the frame very granularily. I like to say "I want to fly these ships (like 2 TIE Bombers, a certain pilot...)" and then build the absolutely best list I can come up with under those circumstances. I can pull punches on one level of listbuilding, but don't have to on another. Card games only have one level to their deckbuilding. Putting in bad cards will make your experience worse, no matter what.

Mmm, no it's basically the same. I can build some tremendously effective decks with 'bad' cards and have a good experience - put bad interactions in but try to make them work. It's no different at all.

44 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

most players want to play what they find fun, but they also want it to be good enough they have a decent shot at winning.

I discovered a way to phrase my personal gaming philosophy the other day, that I think might resonate with other players:

"If it's fun, it doesn't have to be good. But if it's good, it still has to be fun."

I think the game is important, its Star Wars-yness is important, but the people your playing with are uber important. If you like spending time with them, you definitely then, really like the game.

...for that one knuckle head, there's Guinness to get you through.

28 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Mmm, no it's basically the same. I can build some tremendously effective decks with 'bad' cards and have a good experience - put bad interactions in but try to make them work. It's no different at all.

I prefer playing a gimped list in X-Wing over a gimped deck in Hearthstone any day.

5 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

I prefer playing a gimped list in X-Wing over a gimped deck in Hearthstone any day.

Whereas I never enjoyed Hearthstone more than when I was janking about with my fun Mage deck and trying to crack level 10.

Hearthstone has to be one of the most toxic competitive play environments. Find a deck with a 53% win rate against the field, play it 1,000 times, profit.

2 hours ago, LordBlades said:

My experience from pretty much every game I've played is that most players want to play what they find fun, but they also want it to be good enough they have a decent shot at winning.

I think players who have fun while being destroyed over and over (no matter the outcome) are just as rare as the players who have fun only from the game result.

Yep

Before playing xwing i was into a game called Dice Master. I really liked the game but the group i played with gradually disbanded. When i started playing the game was almost perfectly balanced and you could have a chance to win even with a deck of cheaper common cards. Expansions after expansions power creep cards got released and became really expansive to buy. Older players got upset because they had to buy specific (and expansive) cards in order to remain competitive.

What attracted me to Xwing was:

1) no randomness in the product you buy. You know exactly what's in the box.

2) Older ships were still competitive. The original Tie fighters were still winning tournaments (crackswarm). Fast foward a little more than a year later and that part looks like it's goins away. I'm seeing the same patern as with Dice Masters: power creeps making the older stuff obsolete. Even worst, some new ships that would have been good when i started are almost DOA (Striker...)

My comment on that review:
" I play X-Wing and dedicated the past 6 months or so to flying every card I own- every pilot, every upgrade (and, as much as I can, ensuring that all those abilities trigger). I got a lot better at the game, beat some of the really talented local guys, lost some games really quickly, and had a great time with goofy, fun lists. Make your fun /fun/."

23 minutes ago, superdave said:

My comment on that review:
" I play X-Wing and dedicated the past 6 months or so to flying every card I own- every pilot, every upgrade (and, as much as I can, ensuring that all those abilities trigger). I got a lot better at the game, beat some of the really talented local guys, lost some games really quickly, and had a great time with goofy, fun lists. Make your fun /fun/."

This game is what you make it. If you want to play casually or find competitive play is not to your liking? Play casually, use ships you like, make campaigns, or play epic. More power to you and I love that your having fun.

What I am getting tired of is people attacking competitive players. Why are they bad for the game? Why can't both casual and competitive play exist without people accusing competitive play of ruining the game?

Come to the Casual Side.......we have Epic!

Seriously, I love being competitive when I play my non-competitive lists in X-wing. There is so much more to the game than tournament level X-wing.

2 hours ago, DailyRich said:

Anybody can "net deck," but I'd rather fly something I feel like I have an attachment to.

This, and that is why I continuely fly Rey and Norra no matter my league, casual or tournament result because I love the ships, thier abilites and the characters I equip within the list, and I do win a lot.

3 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Come to the Casual Side.......we have Epic!

Seriously, I love being competitive when I play my non-competitive lists in X-wing. There is so much more to the game than tournament level X-wing.

While I mainly play casual with my SO and some friends: for us it's more fun if the lists are as equal in strength as possible, and for that it would be nice if the points were somewhat reliable. Apart from that: epic is awesome!

4 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

https://www.shutupandsitdown.com/review-android-netrunner-terminal-directive/

Give the first half of this a read, see if any of it sounds familiar or you have similar experiences.

It is and it isn't. X-wing and Netrunner are in very different places right now. The X-wing team has finally shown they're willing to actually errata problem cards if they think there's enough of a problem.

The Netrunner team on the other hand seems like they don't want to break Netrunner's reputation of not needing errata or a ban list, all while continuing to print the most powerful/broken cards in the same two factions that have been dominant on each side for a couple years now each. When the lead designer intimates that there was a card buffed over their head, and then and obviously overpowered card comes out that improves what's already been a winning strategy for the last couple years, something's not right. It'd be like if instead of errata-ing Palpatine or Manaroo, they kept printing more cards that synergize with them despite them already being some of the strongest combo lists. That's where it feels like Netrunner is right now, and has been for a year or so. Which is sad, because it was Quinn's evangelizing of the game that got me into Netrunner in the first place.

There's definitely something to the 'one-way door' though. How you feel about being on the other side though is going to differ person to person, I've never felt that the state of the game in X-wing has put me in a bad place, the way Netrunner is going on the other hand...

3 hours ago, LordBlades said:

I think you're wrong. My experience from pretty much every game I've played is that most players want to play what they find fun, but they also want it to be good enough they have a decent shot at winning.

I think players who have fun while being destroyed over and over (no matter the outcome) are just as rare as the players who have fun only from the game result.

Losing can be fun if it's a close game. Getting blown out completely is never much fun though.

10 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

While I mainly play casual with my SO and some friends: for us it's more fun if the lists are as equal in strength as possible, and for that it would be nice if the points were somewhat reliable. Apart from that: epic is awesome!

I fully agree! I like it when one person builds both lists for Epic. Or....two collaborate. Either way, the lists are fair and balanced from the get go. Still....once the game is on, I love to come up with strategy and tactics that will win. Even if I lose, I have fun.