Hi. I love list creation its possibly my favorit game aspect. But we have a prevalant kylo ren player on the meta and he has just shut me down. I basicly can no longer build an all comers list that dosnt use determination.

Im not a fan of swarms and i feel thay may be the way to beat ren lists but i oboject to buying 7 syks just so i can have a chance of winning

So are people finding you just have to take determination? I find this limits design space harshly and makes mediocor un-ept pilots (like morelo) useless. As you still lose 50 pts of a list to him but he cant prevent the double blinded piolet

Kylo is something any two-ship list has to consider in list building.

Determination is one solution; it's the one I've chose for Bossk. I combo it with Greedo for a high-risk-high-reward way of making it more relevant in other matches as well.

Another is taking Gunner effects and using the old damage deck, especially if you're also using generic pilots without EPTs. You ignore the blind, and if you satisfy the latter condition, you ignore the Injured Pilot too.

I don't think Kylo is good, at all - he's an action that isn't modding dice or doing damage, so aside from the low-agi 2-ship list, or the low-hull ace, he's pretty meh.

But he is a very severe check on two-ship lists. To what I think is an unhealthy extent. Not because he's necessarily good, but because he's incredibly un-fun.

Atm im just waiting for the skurrg bommer. So i have a cheep ship i can stick adv homing missles and boba fett on then if you want to spend turns blinding 28 pts go for it. But ill have a bossk alph strike for you. And if you blind bissk for a turn ill pop kylo off

Yh the unfun is my problem. I made a fun list. Not overly competative but i had flown it enough to hold in against meta lists. But kylo just flat shuts it down. And ment i cant fly something i did befor enjoy.

The fix for me is making it range 1-2 so if you can out piolet the enemy you can get around it. This is how the game was designed so implementing it hear seems fair.

Im also making a scum stress list to shut down the actions of a kylo list but now im teching all my lists to counter kylo leaving me less prepeard for other lists

1 hour ago, Izikial said:

Hi. I love list creation its possibly my favorit game aspect. But we have a prevalant kylo ren player on the meta and he has just shut me down. I basicly can no longer build an all comers list that dosnt use determination.

Im not a fan of swarms and i feel thay may be the way to beat ren lists but i oboject to buying 7 syks just so i can have a chance of winning

So are people finding you just have to take determination? I find this limits design space harshly and makes mediocor un-ept pilots (like morelo) useless. As you still lose 50 pts of a list to him but he cant prevent the double blinded piolet

So to maybe help you out a little bit, what kind of lists do you like to fly? We might be able to come up with some good solutions within your archetype!

So your opponents always roll focus/crits? Kylo is not anywhere near a guaranteed effect. If he is on RAC, try to stay out of range 1-2 so he has to roll crits.

2 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

So your opponents always roll focus/crits? Kylo is not anywhere near a guaranteed effect. If he is on RAC, try to stay out of range 1-2 so he has to roll crits.

That's no mean feat when RAC is PS8 or 10 and has engine upgrade.

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

That's no mean feat when RAC is PS8 or 10 and has engine upgrade.

True, but in those instances you can have the rest of your list murderize the 0 agi RAC. There always are options.

1 minute ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

True, but in those instances you can have the rest of your list murderize the 0 agi RAC. There always are options.

The rest of your list, in the context of the OP, being one ship.

The thread is specifically about determination and handling Kylo with two-ship lists.

(also, RAC can arc dodge better than pretty much anything else in the meta at the moment...)

Quote

I basicly can no longer build an all comers list that doesnt use determination.

Surely you can build a list that can 2x stress, or take out a Decimator in 1-2 turns - that is also viable against all comers?

6 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The rest of your list, in the context of the OP, being one ship.

The thread is specifically about determination and handling Kylo with two-ship lists.

(also, RAC can arc dodge better than pretty much anything else in the meta at the moment...)

Moff Jerrjerod is worth considering on the Imp side to deal with Kyloing. He's pricey and inefficient but doesn't take an EPT slot and helps with crit mitigation in general.

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The rest of your list, in the context of the OP, being one ship.

The thread is specifically about determination and handling Kylo with two-ship lists.

(also, RAC can arc dodge better than pretty much anything else in the meta at the moment...)

I haven't seen any hints at just two ship lists in the OP...? Maybe I suck at reading comprehension atm, tiny dog is stealing my sleep.

Yeah, but if he boosts he can't Kylo. And it is true that RAC arc-dodges very well, but there are other options than Kylo that go better with that (Vader, Rebel Captive).

I don't know, to me Kylo just seems kind of bad.

Come on....Kylo is no nearly as OP as every1 is showing him. He Kyloed? No boost, no mods. Stay at range 3. Use the rest of your list. In 2 ship list even half of your ship should be able to kill deci pretty fast if he use kylo too often.

2 hours ago, Izikial said:

Yh the unfun is my problem. I made a fun list. Not overly competative but i had flown it enough to hold in against meta lists. But kylo just flat shuts it down. And ment i cant fly something i did befor enjoy.

Whatever you do, don't create a hard counter to any one list, and make the list something you want to fly, that's fun, or you will have already lost.

1 hour ago, RampancyTW said:

So to maybe help you out a little bit, what kind of lists do you like to fly? We might be able to come up with some good solutions within your archetype!

This.

the experts on this forum are great at tweak ideas....

1 hour ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

So your opponents always roll focus/crits? Kylo is not anywhere near a guaranteed effect. If he is on RAC, try to stay out of range 1-2 so he has to roll crits.

Yeah, the Admiral is usually always spot on, tiny dog or no. Kylo can be a bad thing at that exact moment (or if you fly loaded up Horn), but basic flying and punching ability is usually all you need to negate his powers.

Draw Their Fire will works too, if you want to protect your X Ace from being blinded. Some cannon fodder with DTF will work.

DTF+Determination into an A-Wing? Will it works?! Can be fun

23 minutes ago, Vitalis said:

Come on....Kylo is no nearly as OP as every1 is showing him. He Kyloed? No boost, no mods. Stay at range 3. Use the rest of your list. In 2 ship list even half of your ship should be able to kill deci pretty fast if he use kylo too often.

I didn't say I think he's OP at all.

I said I think he's a check on 2-ship lists that don't account for him, and I think he's un-fun.

So although i didnt state it. Thespaceinvader is right and i do generaly prefer 2 ship lists. And i also play scum. This guy uses rac and vader for fairly consistant crits he had never isytds me and not got it of same turn

I used to party bossk dengar and have been looking to go to bus ketsu. My fun list was 2 quads, 1 z. And a bossk using cluster missles.

I find getting two stress with scum fairly hard and have been working on a 4-lom, tlt, jumpmaster list that gets me a good alpha. Strong consistent damage and some control. But i was told a while ago that having an unfocused list like that tends to end up ineffective

4 minutes ago, Izikial said:

So although i didnt state it. Thespaceinvader is right and i do generaly prefer 2 ship lists. And i also play scum. This guy uses rac and vader for fairly consistant crits he had never isytds me and not got it of same turn.

Vader crits do not trigger the condition, you guys had the card wrong.

Edit to clarify: Condition = "When you suffer critical damage from an attack", while Vader happens after an attack.

Well, another counter(ish) to Kylo is having high Agility, so that there is no guarantee that the crit lands. IG-88 lists, for example.

But...IF you are determined to run 2-ship lists, AND you want to use the low-agi ones, AND Kylo shows up frequently around you? Yeah, Determination is kind of the only answer. Specifically just in your unique situation, though. I, personally, have never found that I needed Determination, because I almost never play low-agility 2-ship lists, and Kylo is not terribly common in my area.

2 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Vader crits do not trigger the condition, you guys had the card wrong.

Worth mentioning...when FFG published their "Attack Timing Chart", post-attack things like Vader were included in the attack cycle. So Vader CAN trigger Kylo--or at least there is a valid argument there.

To clear up. I ment vader as in piloting an advance with title and what not

I have always thematicly preferd the idea of a big ship unloading a broad side rather than nippy things dodging around. Scum also have poo ships for the high agi stuff. Basicly just starfighters

Ok guys. Thanks for the imput. I understand the way i like to play isnt conducive to the currant meta. And that makes me sad but i supose i have to just learn to use differant stuff. Maybe time for me to give quad tlt a go lol

3 hours ago, Izikial said:

The fix for me is making it range 1-2 so if you can out piolet the enemy you can get around it. This is how the game was designed so implementing it hear seems fair.

The fix for me is it needs to be re worded, "When dealt a face up card, deal the card on the condition instead" not only does Kylo shut down low agi ships, he also shuts down low health ships like the B Wing, E Wing, Phantom etc etc. Any of these ships can have full shields and be killed because of that stupid NPE card. I believe it is one of the worst cards released so far as it kills the fun in a game.

They finally nerfed Palp, now they have Ren.

7 minutes ago, Izikial said:

To clear up. I ment vader as in piloting an advance with title and what not

I that case play quad TLT until your opponent sells his Decimator and Advanced