2 minutes ago, Izikial said:

Ok guys. Thanks for the imput. I understand the way i like to play isnt conducive to the currant meta. And that makes me sad but i supose i have to just learn to use differant stuff. Maybe time for me to give quad tlt a go lol

Um, I don't think anyone would seriously give you advice to "fly" Thug Life....if that is "flying" at all. Perish the thought. If the forum goes down to that level, as in recommending such stuff, all hope is gone.

2 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

The fix for me is it needs to be re worded, "When dealt a face up card, deal the card on the condition instead" not only does Kylo shut down low agi ships, he also shuts down low health ships like the B Wing, E Wing, Phantom etc etc. Any of these ships can have full shields and be killed because of that stupid NPE card. I believe it is one of the worst cards released so far as it kills the fun in a game.

They finally nerfed Palp, now they have Ren.

I haven't seen much of Ren. I guess it is a staple in some locations. I'm in on the take him down thoughts rather than the fly Determination, I cannot see that card doing much at all save an occasion or two; EPT is just too valuable.

4 hours ago, Izikial said:

Hi. I love list creation its possibly my favorit game aspect. But we have a prevalant kylo ren player on the meta and he has just shut me down. I basicly can no longer build an all comers list that dosnt use determination.

Im not a fan of swarms and i feel thay may be the way to beat ren lists but i oboject to buying 7 syks just so i can have a chance of winning

So are people finding you just have to take determination? I find this limits design space harshly and makes mediocor un-ept pilots (like morelo) useless. As you still lose 50 pts of a list to him but he cant prevent the double blinded piolet

IMO the best counter to kylo is a stressbot. No matter what, it's going to protect your heavy hitters. As a RAC player if i let the bot attack me ill be double stressed the next round and will probably only get 1 use of Kylo for most of the game. If i blind the stressbot then your heavy hitter is free to do his thing. Biggs is antother effective solution vs Kylo. You can ISYTDS the heavy hitter but you cant get a crit in if Biggs is around.

I dont see why Kylo is not fun. Hes no different than stuff like Stressbot, Biggs, Zuckuss, Miranda, Asajj, Corran, Kanan, Ashoka, etc. He can only blind at the most twice per game, require the ship hes on to be able to take an action (so many ways to prevent that...) and needs a crit to trigger. For me playing vs a stressbot is far less fun than playing vs Kylo. The ability can be used again and again, it doesnt require a hit to trigger and it shut down so many things...

3 minutes ago, Thormind said:

I don't see why Kylo is not fun. Hes no different than stuff like Stressbot, Biggs, Zuckuss, Miranda, Asajj, Corran, Kanan, Ashoka, etc.

This.

43 minutes ago, fiesta0618 said:

Worth mentioning...when FFG published their "Attack Timing Chart", post-attack things like Vader were included in the attack cycle. So Vader CAN trigger Kylo--or at least there is a valid argument there.

Except that they address it specifically in the FAQ:

The effect of Darth Vader (crew) occurs after the attack and therefore does not trigger the effect of I'll Show You the Dark Side

1 minute ago, AlexW said:

Except that they address it specifically in the FAQ:

The effect of Darth Vader (crew) occurs after the attack and therefore does not trigger the effect of I'll Show You the Dark Side

Hey, that's great! I found it super annoying for the few seconds that it worked. Glad to find out I'm wrong)

2 ship lists crumble to Kylo pretty easily. I've hung up my Cassian/Rey until Kylo calms down in the meta a bit, he is pretty popular locally. Until then I'll stick to my 3/4 ship high agility builds that been doing well against him. I feel like the era of the A-Wing is returning!

2 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Vader crits do not trigger the condition, you guys had the card wrong.

Edit to clarify: Condition = "When you suffer critical damage from an attack", while Vader happens after an attack.

He might have meant Vader pilot. With ATC he's going to land crits if he gets any damage through and he has a high enough PS that he'll be able to trigger the condition before his target gets to shoot.

If Kylo is big in your meta and you are playing with few ships that are otherwise vulnerable then YES, Determination could be a staple at least for you and for now. You spend one or two points and completely shut down three of his that seems like a win according to the math although it may open you up to other problems.

37 minutes ago, StevenO said:

If Kylo is big in your meta and you are playing with few ships that are otherwise vulnerable then YES, Determination could be a staple at least for you and for now. You spend one or two points and completely shut down three of his that seems like a win according to the math although it may open you up to other problems.

As i said i have resigned my self to this. But i do think that is a realy bad design descision. To say form this moment on two ship lists have to sacrifice ept's. They say things like biggs and manaroo are bad for design space as you have to make ships assuming they could recive there effects. Well kylo seems the worst of all as he is making 3 factions not just one have to limit there play and design. Bossk will never be able to run any other ept as hes is a jousting alpha ship he cant afford to lose two turns. Kylo is one of the first cards were you dont need to just consider him when making a list you need to think If he is going to hurt you you have to flat counter him

If you're taking determination as an EPT in a two-ship list, Kylo has already won. EPT slots can be much much more powerful than that.

Is Snap Shot still considered to be an opportunity to attack regardless of where your opponent is? If so, you have an EPT that, while it still makes you take the face down damage, allows you to shoot on the same turn and gives you 2 dice to shoot into RAC if you get the opportunity. Either way, you get your primary/secondary attack when the attack phase comes around.

8 hours ago, Izikial said:

Hi. I love list creation its possibly my favorit game aspect. But we have a prevalant kylo ren player on the meta and he has just shut me down. I basicly can no longer build an all comers list that dosnt use determination.

Im not a fan of swarms and i feel thay may be the way to beat ren lists but i oboject to buying 7 syks just so i can have a chance of winning

So are people finding you just have to take determination? I find this limits design space harshly and makes mediocor un-ept pilots (like morelo) useless. As you still lose 50 pts of a list to him but he cant prevent the double blinded piolet

When you're building certain kinds of lists these days that are vulnerable to Kylo, you have to do one of three things: (1) Run something else, (2) Run Determination, or (3) Accept that you'll lose match-ups to Kylo. Given that you've got a local player always flying Kylo, you really only have options (1) and (2). In tournaments, people can gamble on (3) and just pray to the match-up gods that they don't face one of the handful of Kylo lists there.

14 minutes ago, flyboymb said:

Is Snap Shot still considered to be an opportunity to attack regardless of where your opponent is? If so, you have an EPT that, while it still makes you take the face down damage, allows you to shoot on the same turn and gives you 2 dice to shoot into RAC if you get the opportunity. Either way, you get your primary/secondary attack when the attack phase comes around.

Snapshot should clear Blinded Pilot but it will usually be cleared by the time that the Activation Phase rolls around. RAC with Kylo is usually taking VI and firing at PS10 which will deny most ships an attack that same round.

If Kylo is dominating your metagame there is a hard stop to it in the form of Determination and other ways of mitigating it through things like DTF.

How dominant is his squadron if Kylo is removed? If it's still something you can't beat you have problems anyway so don't blame Kylo. If you can beat it easily then ask "why does Kylo screw things up for me so badly?" and if he doesn't then you could play that and work on pushing Kylo out of the metagame.

If your squadron has a severe but narrow fault your best hope is often that the rest of the metagame keeps that weakness at bay but that still doesn't stop the possibility that you happen to run into a rogue squadron that is running your counter.

I lose to kylo cus my 10 damage bossk alpha strike is removed from thr game withought shooting

Determination is my one fix. Knocks my max damage down to 8 and out of jump master and k wing range but its a pill ill have to swallow

5 hours ago, fiesta0618 said:

Worth mentioning...when FFG published their "Attack Timing Chart", post-attack things like Vader were included in the attack cycle. So Vader CAN trigger Kylo--or at least there is a valid argument there.

No, there isn't. Not a valid one. The damage from Vader is not from an attack, it's from Vader.

1 hour ago, Panzeh said:

If you're taking determination as an EPT in a two-ship list, Kylo has already won. EPT slots can be much much more powerful than that.

On Bossk specifically I've found his EPT to be something of an afterthought tbh. Running him with Ketsu I want her with PTL and him at the same PS to fire second, so no Mindlink, no VI, no Adaptability, he's not a good PTL user, and he has K4 to get locks and Dengar to get rerolls. I was down to Crack Shot before I started using Determination, and for one evening's games I forgot to equip one entirely and didn't really suffer for it.

Determination is a reasonable choice, given that.

18 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

On Bossk specifically I've found his EPT to be something of an afterthought tbh. Running him with Ketsu I want her with PTL and him at the same PS to fire second, so no Mindlink, no VI, no Adaptability, he's not a good PTL user, and he has K4 to get locks and Dengar to get rerolls. I was down to Crack Shot before I started using Determination, and for one evening's games I forgot to equip one entirely and didn't really suffer for it.

Determination is a reasonable choice, given that.

This is my plan now Effectivly.

You have another option:

Counterbuild.

Its not typically what I would suggest, but if you have a friend who frequently plays a specific ship/strategy, the way for you to change that is to break their faith in the ship. I have a friend who played a souped up Dengar religiously for a while... Until everyone he played against (mainly me) continuously made lists which accounted for him. Now if you play him, he has a variety of lists with different styles.

You aren't playing in a varied global meta. You are playing in your meta and personal metas can be very stale. What is good/bad is circumstantial. If you want to return to Bosk with an EPT at some point, start showing him lists and builds which wreck his Kylo and make him reconsider playing it so often and predictably. Rock, paper, scissors doesn't work if your hopelessly obsessed with rocks.

In the same vein, consider your lists affect on him? How long have you been flying 2 big ships, pushing him towards lists geared to face them?