Just something I've been messing around with in my head. And if you guys think this idea has any merit, perhaps it would be a good format if they ever make a separate ground game with AT-ATs.

So imagine you buy your core set. It's got your miniatures, tokens, dice, templates, and cards... But suppose your Wave 1 of expansions consists of Plastic Expansions and Card-Based expansions. You can buy a Y-Wing model, which comes with the Miniature, the base, and even a single card to play a basic Y-Wing... but if you want the ace pilots, and the Y-Wing specific upgrades, they come in the "Rebels of Yavin" pack, which has your X-Wing and Y-Wing pilots, Astromech Droids, Torpedoes, Turrets, and EPTs, etc.... Lets also say that the cost stays relatively the same. Lets say a Y-Wing MSRP's for only 9.99 this way, and the Rebel Pack is 4.99.

From a certain point of view you would have the same game we have now. But you'd also have the perfect method for them to give out fixes and new pilots in small packages. If we need a B-Wing Fix... we don't have to wait for another Rebel Aces pack--- they can just do a "Rebel B-Wing Aces 2" card pack - giving us a few new pilots and maybe some new upgrades. Printing and distribution could be very fast... and it would be the perfect way to toss in free replacement cards for any Erratta'd stuff. Maybe once per year each wave's basic cardboard packs come with any erratta'd cards from the past year.

And if this format applied to a ground game they could even add some type of deckbuilding to it as well. Maybe you get to customize your own damage deck and when you hurt your opponent you deal your OWN damage cards for crits - so you maybe want the newest crits? I'm just spitballin here.

What do you think?

Any attempt to turn this into a CCG would see me immediately, and without any hesitation, abandon the game instantly.

4 minutes ago, Slugrage said:

Any attempt to turn this into a CCG would see me immediately, and without any hesitation, abandon the game instantly.

It isn't a CCG already? I have a lot of cards that I've collected so far!

24 minutes ago, Slugrage said:

Any attempt to turn this into a CCG would see me immediately, and without any hesitation, abandon the game instantly.

Ok, a couple things.

One, a although there are similarities, a living card game isn't a ccg. There is no randomization, no card rarities.

Second, I don't think crabbok was suggesting FFG turn x-wing into such a hybrid, he was just hypothesizing "what if" the game had been released that way, and would it be a viable release method for a hypothetical new game.

If the card packs were all pre-set like they are now then I would be all for it. If they were random cards with variable rarities then I would have never bought into the game. I have played many card games over the years and always quit when I decided I was not willing to invest $300+ in a new set. It have already given up on Destiny because of this. One of the many reasons I love this game is I know exactly how much I am going to spend on a new wave.

In so many ways it already is as you by expansions for miniatures, upgrades, and ideally both at the same time.

As I see it breaking the two up would actually be very detrimental to FFG and X-Wing. Even now you get some products that don't sell as well as other and if that was made all that much easier by breaking out "the one good thing in the expansion" from the rest of it you've just destroyed that ship. How many more Star Vipers would FFG have sold if the model and pilots were one sku and all of the non-ship specific upgrades were in another sku? Maybe they would have sold more card packs as people would have found it easier to get Autothrusters without needing everything else the StarViper provided but they sell enough to make up for all of the lost miniature sales plus the added hassle and expense of adding another sku.

Separating them also makes it extremely easy for a person to completely dismiss certain ship models providing less opportunity for independent "discovery" of how a ship works just because they decide to try it out because they happen to have it.

3 minutes ago, StevenO said:

Separating them also makes it extremely easy for a person to completely dismiss certain ship models providing less opportunity for independent "discovery" of how a ship works just because they decide to try it out because they happen to have it.

On the other hand, if card packs included pilots for a variety of ships, it could encourage people to pick up new models because they already have the cards.

People on this forum have been pushing for card expansions for years. Didn't FFG say outright this will never happen?

I'm for it: you get the cards you need, and if there needs to be errata then you just include the new cards in the new set.

31 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

On the other hand, if card packs included pilots for a variety of ships, it could encourage people to pick up new models because they already have the cards.

But piss off people who already bought the ship but now find it doesn't have the pilot they wanted. Now they're stuck buying a "stupid product" they don't want just to get the one upgrade they want to fly it. Having pilots for a variety of ships also is discouraging if you don't want those ships and are now wasting your money that way.

Printing an expansion that includes pilots would generally be a good bit harder than printing one that was all upgrades as well. For most upgrades all you need is the card; those that would have normally used a token can now just assign a condition instead which is essentially the same thing as a token. The problem with pilot cards is that you'd also need to throw in the cardboard base tiles.

Bit all that happens anyway. His point is that the card packs would be cheaper than the current distribution model. Which is the main argument against it, since currently you DO have to buy models you don't want just to get the cards, FFG is therefore selling more models than they perhaps otherwise would.

A card based system works in volume, not occasional one-off purchases. MtG wouldn't be the money-printing system for WotC and everyone else involved if players were only buying a couple of upgrade packs for each new release. The money is in volume - the players that each buy a box and there's dozens of players in any local game shop when a new MtG release comes out. There'd be no money to be made for FFG for packs of cards that some players may only buy one or two of. It's simple retail math.

I'd definitely love to be able to buy cards without models, but I assume that would undermine the entire business model.

I can't ever see myself buying an expansion just for the cards. I'm finding I'd rather spend a few pounds every few weeks picking up cards from eBay.

I ran away from MtG many years ago. Random buys = change to another game. No doubt.

Whoah whoah whoah! I never said anything about random packs or a CCG....

I said LCG - set cards. Similar to how cards now come in an expansion, only you'd get more in a pack. Might get like 40 cards in an upgrade box.

Armada did something similar to this. The correllian conflict box had no plastic,but also included new cards to enhance the existing game.

2 hours ago, ayedubbleyoo said:

I'd definitely love to be able to buy cards without models, but I assume that would undermine the entire business model.

I can't ever see myself buying an expansion just for the cards. I'm finding I'd rather spend a few pounds every few weeks picking up cards from eBay.

What if it's a large box of cards, with say.... 2 new pilots for every ship in an entire faction - with also like 20 new upgrades?

You aren't just paying for cardboard but also for design and playtesting.

Im fairly new to x-wing miniatures so i may have a different perspective on things but i too like the idea of having more varied expansions. I've bought every expansion, some multiples of the same expansion, but dont know how long i will continue to do so. Currently it seems like FFG for the most part uses a cookie cutter approach, release a new ship, 4 pilot cards (2 unique, 2 generic), and a couple new modification cards. They have released a handfull of themed packs which i like.

I personally would like them to release more campaign expansions. For example with Rogue One being recently released, they could have made a Battle of Scarif expansion. Whether they released it with just new pilot cards and the relevant campaign material or with a few ships also included; i would be fine with either. I play the game for fun and not to become the next plastic toy world champion.

Change it up FFG.

Because retailers just looooove the sheer mass of SKUs of the LCGs.

56 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

Because retailers just looooove the sheer mass of SKUs of the LCGs.

Especially if they just grow and grow granted that is how X-Wing operates already. Of course I don't think the SKU with the minis would get any smaller so now the retailer would just need to find more space for all of those card only expansions.

Actually, the one game I could see being a hybrid LCG miniature game, Star Trek.

Without having to dig through the EU Star Trek was not just about the ships but also the crew, the ones that beamed down to the planet, the red shirts that got killed off, and the crisis that threatened the ship and the federation. You could have a hybrid game of that starting with the early eras, (TOS, enterprise, Discovery) in the first waves then move onto the TNG after Wave 6 where you start to add in the Galaxy class, the Cardassians, even the Borg which could have powerful ships but a little slower on the crew. With that you would only need 1 wave a year and the cycle will consist of a wave of models but a series of crew and equipment packs.

Yeah a Star Trek Armada Minatures, Arkham LCG would be something I would like to see.

FFG will happily take your monies for Imperial Assault, which is the game you more or less described.

1 minute ago, Mep said:

FFG will happily take your monies for Imperial Assault, which is the game you more or less described.

Well I wouldn't want miniatures for the crew. Squadron/pilot size cards will do just fine.

Armada has a lot of one use type cards that you can include on ships. Those sorta play like an LCG. Isn't the same as the deck you get in Imperial Assault but it is ships.

2 hours ago, Mep said:

Armada has a lot of one use type cards that you can include on ships. Those sorta play like an LCG. Isn't the same as the deck you get in Imperial Assault but it is ships.

A lot of LCG cards are not one time use though. Yeah I don't think we share the same concept.

So Star Trek Miniatures with LCG. The ship is the miniatures and crew equipment weapons are the cards, along with missions (blue:prime directive- 1 per list, green: cruising mission, yellow:secret mission, red: tactical mission). Crew are Command (yellow) Tactical (red) Support (blue) and Civil (green). Away team missions would be cards while ship missions would be miniatures.

X-wing already IS a miniatures LCG game. You buy models you don't want or need, for included cards.

I'd be cool with pilot and upgrade packs so I don't have to buy a star viper for autothrusters.