8 hours ago, Mep said:

Yeah, the draw back to mindlink is the stress and many ships needing to make a red maneuver. The jumpmaster dial is broken. It doesn't need to make red maneuvers ever. It has some pretty good green maneuvers to boot, so it can handle the stress bots. Other mindlink lists fall apart due to the stress mechanic of the card.

I also don't think FFG can or should change the dial at this point. It is simply way to messy a process. They could remove the ept slot from the contracted scout. This would solve a few of the big problems while not 'fixing' what isn't actually broken.

You're exaggerating. You can't always do the white sloop. I actually do 4ks or right sloops fairly commonly on the jump master. Even in mindlink lists

1 hour ago, Panzeh said:

As someone who flies a shadowcaster a lot, I can tell you that it is not difficult to avoid having to take rotate arc actions.

If your opponent is content to sit in your mobile arc instead of forcing you to move it, that's on them, not the ship.

yay double post

it doesn't need a nerf.

2 hours ago, SabineKey said:

When did having green turns become too good? The Lancer is suppose to be a high speed persuit vessel. It makes sense that it can perform fast maneuvers easily.

When they printed Attani Mindlink.

Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

When they printed Attani Mindlink.

You do realize that Mindlink came out before the Lancer, right? Meaning, FFG knew what Mindlink could do and weren't that bothered about the idea of it plus the Lancer's dial. And when Parattanni was dominant, they didn't go after the Lancer to tone it down, they went after Manny. If that's your only point, it's pretty weak.

3 hours ago, streamdragon said:

If your opponent is content to sit in your mobile arc instead of forcing you to move it, that's on them, not the ship.

The thing is that my opponent will not able to do it

5 minutes ago, Cerve said:

The thing is that my opponent will not able to do it

If you fly the shadowcaster correctly, there is not actually a whole lot of board in R1-3 that will be outside their two firing arcs. They can always put their back to the table edge and the side arc is pretty wide.

5 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

You're exaggerating. You can't always do the white sloop. I actually do 4ks or right sloops fairly commonly on the jump master. Even in mindlink lists

Not if you are already stressed you aren't and not if you plan on doing a red maneuver on one of your other ships. The rules are very clear on this. Of course you can do the red maneuvers, on one ship per turn, and the rest doing greens if you did the red maneuver first or you are doing greens next turn. It really limits your options, unless you are flying a jumpmaster, which has so many good options that aren't red, you really aren't all that limited.

Try flying a mindlink Scyk swarm and you need to K turn the whole group to have any kind of shot. Doesn't happen. Jumpmasters, well they have a turret so they always have a shot, and an amazing dial.

6 hours ago, SabineKey said:

When did having green turns become too good? The Lancer is suppose to be a high speed persuit vessel. It makes sense that it can perform fast maneuvers easily.

I like the idea that a Large ship has to go _fast_ if it wants to shed stress. This makes it more likely to fly off the board edge, or over obstacles, or some such.

Don't get me wrong: having a full set of greens is an advantage. But it's tempered by the size of the ship.

53 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

I like the idea that a Large ship has to go _fast_ if it wants to shed stress. This makes it more likely to fly off the board edge, or over obstacles, or some such.

Don't get me wrong: having a full set of greens is an advantage. But it's tempered by the size of the ship.

Same. Both this and x7 made me really enjoy a focus on high speed flying. Plus, I generally always take the Gyroscopic Targeting when flying the Lancer, further pushing the high speed style.

i would also like to clarify that while I am defending the Lancer dial, I am by no means suggesting it is not a good dial.

Well because of all the hate I bought 3 Jumpmasters today, guess what I got with it 6 Attanni Mindlinks interesting how it's this expansion with the upgrade; my next league night I'll fly them to see what all the hate is all about, because as a Rebel player who faces it all the time I don't hate it; it's a tough list but not unbeatable.

52 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

Well because of all the hate I bought 3 Jumpmasters today, guess what I got with it 6 Attanni Mindlinks interesting how it's this expansion with the upgrade; my next league night I'll fly them to see what all the hate is all about, because as a Rebel player who faces it all the time I don't hate it; it's a tough list but not unbeatable.

Hey you can fit six Mindlink Scyks in a list, 5 light and 1 heavy. If you had the C-roc, which isn't even in the boat yet

19 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Hey you can fit six Mindlink Scyks in a list, 5 light and 1 heavy. If you had the C-roc, which isn't even in the boat yet

I could and depending on if I begin to like the faction. But I bought them today specifically to fly it (3 U-Boats) and actaully play with the ability to multiple focus/and see if the rage, hate is worth it; who knows I may agree in the end but I don't think I will just looking at the dial I can see the ship has many flaws especially if your opponent's turn zero "0" thought out and strategetic knowing the dial. Should be interesting but who knows maybe Scyks are in my future but for now it's the Rey and Norra show.

Oh look, that rebel list just beat multiple Attani mindlink scum lists in the cut at Stele Open! And what's this, a "joke build" T-70 with R3-A2? But a single stress doesn't matter at all against mindlink, it can't!

10 hours ago, Panzeh said:

If you fly the shadowcaster correctly, there is not actually a whole lot of board in R1-3 that will be outside their two firing arcs. They can always put their back to the table edge and the side arc is pretty wide.

This. If you fly it well, there's only a few chance for a ship to outmaneuver it.

4 hours ago, Sekac said:

Oh look, that rebel list just beat multiple Attani mindlink scum lists in the cut at Stele Open! And what's this, a "joke build" T-70 with R3-A2? But a single stress doesn't matter at all against mindlink, it can't!

Nice sarcasm, but R3-A2 is a meta thing, not an Attanni counter. If I had to go into a tournament as a rebell, I will bring any stress dealer too. Conscious that against an AM list will help a bit, even if not counter it directly.

So still, stress doesn't crush down an AM list.

7 hours ago, Sekac said:

Oh look, that rebel list just beat multiple Attani mindlink scum lists in the cut at Stele Open! And what's this, a "joke build" T-70 with R3-A2? But a single stress doesn't matter at all against mindlink, it can't!

Did you watch the games ? The reason he won the games was because the damage output of the list is big and consistent through a good amount of turns, stress is icing the cake. His opponents also either missused Fenn, manaroo, or jousted head on into bad engagements.

Yeah, I'd say one of the reasons it wasn't a stresshog is just how immune Attani is to stress, meaning it's not worth dedicating an entire ship to dealing out stress tokens.

I really like 'Stressy Jessy' as a ship, she's just 1pt too expensive to slot right into my double ARC squad unfortunately.

4 hours ago, Cerve said:

Nice sarcasm, but R3-A2 is a meta thing, not an Attanni counter. If I had to go into a tournament as a rebell, I will bring any stress dealer too. Conscious that against an AM list will help a bit, even if not counter it directly.

So still, stress doesn't crush down an AM list.

I've played against enough attani lists to know that stress does affect them- but they're still capable of unpredictable moves in that condition. In round 1 of Stele Open for me, for example, I was able to dump stress on one of the jumpmasters in a 2x jump+Fenn build and that significantly changed the game. It didn't totally prevent the list from doing what it wanted, but it did have an effect on the game.

On 4/8/2017 at 9:01 AM, Ram said:

Very good summary! I will admit that i am suprised by that. How did you assemble that information? Looking at the rest of the field, how many mindlink list was in there?

Going through all the results in List juggler, dated between the FAQ becoming legal and Friday. Simple as that.

I fundamentally disagree with the hypothesis that mindlink is generating any kind of problems - this is just another untrue claim made by nerfing fans who likes to spread myths and legends. Even when tournament results says otherwise.

3 hours ago, DreadStar said:

Did you watch the games ? The reason he won the games was because the damage output of the list is big and consistent through a good amount of turns, stress is icing the cake. His opponents also either missused Fenn, manaroo, or jousted head on into bad engagements.

Yes, I watched him stress ships and then block their then predictable moves numerous times. I watched Fenn forgo boosting to get a shot just so he could lend a focus to a scout. I watched stress matter many times.

Most importantly, I watched Attani Mindlink lose over and over to it. It's a very good card, but considering it keeps losing to rebel regen/stress I don't think it warrants a nerf.

Arguments to the contrary are sounding more and more like "It's OP because I say it's OP! Now where's my nerf?"

4 minutes ago, Sekac said:

Yes, I watched him stress ships and then block their then predictable moves numerous times. I watched Fenn forgo boosting to get a shot just so he could lend a focus to a scout. I watched stress matter many times.

Most importantly, I watched Attani Mindlink lose over and over to it. It's a very good card, but considering it keeps losing to rebel regen/stress I don't think it warrants a nerf.

Arguments to the contrary are sounding more and more like "It's OP because I say it's OP! Now where's my nerf?"

It's the rebel stressdroid that should get nerfed, not the mindlink.

Simple "if you are not stressed" would do, just as they did for zuckuss.

Just now, Sekac said:

Yes, I watched him stress ships and then block their then predictable moves numerous times. I watched Fenn forgo boosting to get a shot just so he could lend a focus to a scout. I watched stress matter many times.

Most importantly, I watched Attani Mindlink lose over and over to it. It's a very good card, but considering it keeps losing to rebel regen/stress I don't think it warrants a nerf.

Arguments to the contrary are sounding more and more like "It's OP because I say it's OP! Now where's my nerf?"

Everything isn't black or white. I don't think it needs a nerf. I understand your point of view, but do you really think the most important thing to beat those lists were the stress ? It was the offensive output, durability and good arc coverage. Stress allowed him to block his opponents, because they certainly attempted to clear stresses all the time instead.

Game at top 8 his opponent attempted to joust from a terrible angle, leaving two scouts one next to each other with 2 rocks at its sides, and the rebel list just in front of him completely blocking him. Getting completely piece mealed. Meanwhile, Fenn Rau still at range 3.

Top 4 same mistake, but this time is an Assaj that's gets dropped hard, withouth even being able to move its turret, and manaroo failing around doing no good use of its ability the whole game. The fenn 5 blank shot also sucked the live out of him, but it's not like he couldn't had prevented this with good planning.

And finals, the scum got a good engagement, except it was one turn too soon and his Fenn didn't do anything for two turns. The list pinned down between two rocks the scouts, and managed to drop one before it shot twice.

Did stress help ? Of course it does, it helps on most match ups, and stressing 3 ships for the price of 1 is good, but it's not "how you beat Attani". Good flying and mistakes from his opponents, while having a solid jousting squad did a lot more to him than the stress. And i mean no disrespect to the players, after a two day event it is normal to make mistakes, and it is also much easier to pick up on them from a stream point of view, so sorry to any of you if this come across as insulting!

51 minutes ago, DreadStar said:

Everything isn't black or white. I don't think it needs a nerf. I understand your point of view, but do you really think the most important thing to beat those lists were the stress ? It was the offensive output, durability and good arc coverage. Stress allowed him to block his opponents, because they certainly attempted to clear stresses all the time instead.

By no means do I think stress was the main reason for victory. Just thumbing my nose at the people who have been claiming for pages that mindlink doesn't care about stress—that it's a non-factor.

He had a great list and flew it very well. If mindlink can be countered by flying good lists well, it probably doesn't need a nerf. That's all I'm saying.