Quote

Claim - Move an upgrade from a character to another character controlled by the same player.

There is a debate going on surrounding this battlefield and I want to get the vote from here before Fantasy Flight issues a verdict.

If I claim the battlefield and choose to move an upgrade from one of my opponents characters to another and that upgrade has a die in the field.. what happens to that die? Does it stay in the field or go back?

We are looking at two separate situations.

If one upgrade is removed from a character and becomes its own thing.. a la "One with the Force".. the die stays.

If one upgrade is moved from a character to another... a la Redeploy... the die gets pulled back.

Which is the case?

The important thing to understand is why the die does what it does in both of those situations, then you'll know the answer (it stays in the pool).

50 minutes ago, netherspirit1982 said:

The important thing to understand is why the die does what it does in both of those situations, then you'll know the answer (it stays in the pool).

What if I have training on a FO Trooper with Training attached and both the FO die are in the pool? Does the extra die still get to stay in the pool if I move training to another character?

I believe that FFG will rule that it goes back to the card. Since it is a defensive move in itself.

2 minutes ago, Rogue 4 said:

I believe that FFG will rule that it goes back to the card. Since it is a defensive move in itself.

I guess we'll see. I don't think they will though.

16 minutes ago, pstalker said:

What if I have training on a FO Trooper with Training attached and both the FO die are in the pool? Does the extra die still get to stay in the pool if I move training to another character?

This one is trickier, I'd think you'd have to choose and remove one of it's die when Training is no longer on it.

I have another question about the Cargo Hold.

If I move an upgrade to another character, I own, that already has 3 upgrades, what happens? Does the move fail or do I get to choose and discard an upgrade?

What if I move an upgrade to another character, my opponent owns? Does it fail, do I choose which upgraded gets discarded, does my opponent choose which upgrade gets discarded?

1 hour ago, netherspirit1982 said:

This one is trickier, I'd think you'd have to choose and remove one of it's die when Training is no longer on it.

I'd concur with this, except that I don't even think it's tricky. The character is elite, so has two dice. Then they're not elite, which means they only have one. The other one has to be removed.

Which one do you remove? Are you required to keep the elite die separate?

I suppose it would be the owner's choice of which die to remove, just like with multiple copies of the same upgrade with dice in play.

Owner gets to choose? Where has that been ruled? If you have two Jetpacks on a character with die in the pool, the player removing the upgrade should be able to choose the die they want gone. I play Confiscation, I'm going to target the one with the better die.

Not to say Training works the same way. They both have the same origination card of the character, so probably character owner's choice.

As an extra question: Does Cargo Bay operate the same as a sith holocron? Can I move a blue character only upgrade to a yellow character?

2 hours ago, Alphastealer said:

As an extra question: Does Cargo Bay operate the same as a sith holocron? Can I move a blue character only upgrade to a yellow character?

Sith Holocron says you can ignore play restrictions. Cargo Hold does not say this. You can't move a blue character only upgrade to a yellow character with Cargo Hold. DUUUUUUUUUUUUUMB LRN 2 REED

On 5/4/2017 at 1:41 AM, gokubb said:

Owner gets to choose? Where has that been ruled? If you have two Jetpacks on a character with die in the pool, the player removing the upgrade should be able to choose the die they want gone. I play Confiscation, I'm going to target the one with the better die.

Not to say Training works the same way. They both have the same origination card of the character, so probably character owner's choice.

This has been asked and answered many times here on the forums.

The player removes the upgrade (for example via Disarm), the die is removed from a game effect (the upgrade leaving play) and its owner decides which die to remove. Period.

This is clearly covered by rules, too.

P.S.: sorry for the OT

18 minutes ago, KalEl814 said:

Sith Holocron says you can ignore play restrictions. Cargo Hold does not say this. You can't move a blue character only upgrade to a yellow character with Cargo Hold.

Sith Holocron says "ignore play restrictions" when you PLAY the card. Moving is not playing. For example, we might get a red-only redeploy weapon in a later set. You can only PLAY the card on a red character. You can MOVE it to whatever color you want when that character dies.

1 hour ago, Traxlenak said:

Sith Holocron says "ignore play restrictions" when you PLAY the card. Moving is not playing. For example, we might get a red-only redeploy weapon in a later set. You can only PLAY the card on a red character. You can MOVE it to whatever color you want when that character dies.

I don't think Move and Redeploy are the same thing, even though Redeploy involves moving.

I was just giving you an example of a "Move" that we have had since the beginning of the game.

3 minutes ago, KalEl814 said:

I don't think Move and Redeploy are the same thing, even though Redeploy involves moving.

49 minutes ago, blackholexan said:

REDEPLOY

This keyword only appears on upgrades. After the attached

character is defeated, its controller may immediately move

this upgrade to any of their other characters.

Yes, this is what I said.

Here's the text for move:

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MOVE:

Some effects allow players to move cards or tokens.

• When something moves, it cannot move to its same (current) placement. If there is no valid destination for a move, the move cannot resolve.

• When damage is moved to a new character, it ignores shields and the character is not considered to have taken damage.

I don't see anything in that definition that suggests "Move" ignores play restrictions. Redeploy states this explicitly:

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The Redeploy keyword ignores play restrictions when attaching to a new character.

Personally, I would interpret, "if there is no valid destination for a move, the move cannot resolve," to mean that you can't use Cargo Hold to move a blue character only upgrade to a yellow character, as Cargo Hold doesn't say you get to ignore play restrictions. WRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG

EDIT - STUPIDITY

58 minutes ago, KalEl814 said:

Sith Holocron says you can ignore play restrictions. Cargo Hold does not say this. You can't move a blue character only upgrade to a yellow character with Cargo Hold.

I think Cargo Hold will allow you to move a card that has "play" restrictions on it to a character because it is moving the card, not re-playing it.

26 minutes ago, Rogue 4 said:

I think Cargo Hold will allow you to move a card that has "play" restrictions on it to a character because it is moving the card, not re-playing it.

Nothing in the RRG under "move" suggests that you can ignore play restrictions. In fact, it specifically says that if there's no valid destination, the move cannot resolve.

I'd need something to compel me that a yellow character is a "valid destination" for a blue character only card. RRG SLAPPED! IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!

9 minutes ago, KalEl814 said:

Nothing in the RRG under "move" suggests that you can ignore play restrictions. In fact, it specifically says that if there's no valid destination, the move cannot resolve.

I'd need something to compel me that a yellow character is a "valid destination" for a blue character only card.

Then you need to read the entry on what are "Play Restrictions" to begin with.

Specifically,

"Upgrades do not get removed from a character if the play restriction is no longer fulfilled. The character must only fulfill the play restriction when the card is first played."

Play restrictions only matter when playing the card, the text on Sith Holocron is superfluous as the base rules already take care of the situation. Moving an upgrade is not playing an upgrade, thus play restrictions will not apply.

While I don't like the idea of a cargo hold suddenly allowing force abilities to be passed to non force users, I don't think MOVE should be following PLAY restrictions.

1 minute ago, ScottieATF said:

Then you need to read the entry on what are "Play Restrictions" to begin with.

Specifically,

"Upgrades do not get removed from a character if the play restriction is no longer fulfilled. The character must only fulfill the play restriction when the card is first played."

Play restrictions only matter when playing the card, the text on Sith Holocron is superfluous as the base rules already take care of the situation. Moving an upgrade is not playing an upgrade, thus play restrictions will not apply.

Well herpa derp squerp I don't know what I am talking about. Thank you!

3 hours ago, Marshal8 said:

While I don't like the idea of a cargo hold suddenly allowing force abilities to be passed to non force users, I don't think MOVE should be following PLAY restrictions.

Whilst by the rules i agree with you, i disagree with you from a general stance.

That is to say... by the rules a move ignores play restrictions, but how the hell does a cargo hold let a rebel trooper become one with the force?!

1 hour ago, Stu35 said:

Whilst by the rules i agree with you, i disagree with you from a general stance.

That is to say... by the rules a move ignores play restrictions, but how the hell does a cargo hold let a rebel trooper become one with the force?!

That's my problem with it. They have sub-types on upgrades but aren't consistently using them where it makes sense.

It makes sense that the Holocron only works on abilities.

It doesn't make sense that this doesn't work only on equipment and weapons.