I am not a tournament player and I casual play I don't see that Biggs is too much of an issue, but if a nerf is required why not "deadeye" him. Only allow his ability to protect small base ships. It's thematic and stops his use with the ghost or falcon.

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

I am not a tournament player and I casual play I don't see that Biggs is too much of an issue, but if a nerf is required why not "deadeye" him. Only allow his ability to protect small base ships. It's thematic and stops his use with the ghost or falcon.

There are many possibilities how to change his ability, your suggestion is another good one.

I hope FFG will eventually change him somehow. But, as this thread shows, the necessity is still not apparent to everyone.

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

I am not a tournament player and I casual play I don't see that Biggs is too much of an issue, but if a nerf is required why not "deadeye" him. Only allow his ability to protect small base ships. It's thematic and stops his use with the ghost or falcon.

Not a bad idea. But the problem is making him still relevant at the same time as bringing the other X-Wings into 2017. Mostly, I just want his ability to be sufficiently different from what it is now. Sure, the TL can bypass his ability, but I'd rather he just have a Serissu-like supportive ability.

Right now, his ability is... fine. Just... bleh.

Biggs came with the core set right? I wonder if that's why they are more hesitant to change his wording as it will effect new players just getting into the game more.

These threads are always the same.

Imp players: we must nerf Biggs asap or the galaxy will collapse in on itself.

Scum players: meh, whatever.

Rebel players: huh (nervous chuckle), Biggs is fine... huh huh (more nervous chuckles

There are many potential T-65 fixes which wouldn't buff Biggs more than any other T-65. For example, every fix which is attack based in nature

2 hours ago, markcsoul said:

Biggs came with the core set right? I wonder if that's why they are more hesitant to change his wording as it will effect new players just getting into the game more.

I doubt new players are looking at Biggs when they get the core set. It takes a while to figure out why he is good and he generally doesn't do much to help any of the other core set pilots very much unless you are running Luke with R2-D2.

2 hours ago, markcsoul said:

Biggs came with the core set right? I wonder if that's why they are more hesitant to change his wording as it will effect new players just getting into the game more.

6 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

I doubt new players are looking at Biggs when they get the core set. It takes a while to figure out why he is good and he generally doesn't do much to help any of the other core set pilots very much unless you are running Luke with R2-D2.

Agreed.

im guessing the designers in the beginning had no idea the power Biggs would wield in coming expansions as high value ships began dwarfing and specialness of and X-Wings....they didn't see the cage they were building around themselves at the time. I get it, it's a tough spot now that he's such the Rebel stud.

I imagine Biggs' ability originated from the main purpose the Xwing does: escort duty. Xwing has no need for such a mechanic, or at least it didnt originally, so they made it a special ability.

Special ability that got blown out of proportion sadly enough.

Huge ships could use an Escort rule (when an enemy ship declares you a target, reduce the number of attack dice they roll by 1 per friendly Small ship at Range 1 of the attacker) but small/large ships wouldnt have any standard need for it, just specific pilots, so a general rule would have been weird.

39 minutes ago, charlesanakin said:

T here are many potential T-65 fixes which wouldn't buff Biggs more than any other T-65. For example, every fix which is attack based in nature

The concern isn't that they'll accidentally buff Biggs more than any other X-wing but that they have to find a way to buff other X-wings without also buffing Biggs.

Assuming that nobody would take an attack upgrade on Biggs because that isn't his purpose is foolish. If it's good enough and cheap enough to make X-wings useable, there's no reason Biggs wouldn't take it too. If you make the fix expensive enough that Biggs won't take it, then you're just as likely to keep it out of reach of other X-wings too since they already aren't cost effective.

Look at Kanan. He has a defensive ability and when he was first released, people took crew that allowed him to stack tokens like recon specialist. Does that mean nobody would put offensive upgrades on him just because that isn't his strength over any other ghost? Nope. Finn crew came out and he's a common crew because now you have defensive and offensive abilities.

The idea that Biggs wouldn't take an offensive upgrade because he just doesn't want them is fundamentally flawed logic.

As for your first point, the Empire will suffer until they get cheap TLT access, then you can enjoy them burning Biggs down easily and quickly from relative safety. Bombers can become a thing once Unguided Rockets drops too, giving the Empire a Kanan/TLT resistant swarm ship.

For the second point, here's my (obligatory) X-wing fix, which works nicely around Biggs:

XJ-3 X-wing (T-65 Only, 1 point, Title)

After you execute a speed 1 or 2 maneuver, if you did not overlap an enemy ship, you may execute a [boost] or [barrel roll].

This title gives X-wing aces great action economy (two actions totally stress free and independent of other ships!), while still allowing a swarm of 4 generics to take plasma torpedoes. Biggs himself doesn't like the upgrade, since it costs points (no auto-include here) and adds maneuverability he never needed for formation flying. I could see Biggs taking it if he was paired with Dash, but that's it. Similarly Biggs' X-wing wingmen don't get that much out of the upgrade, since a low formation is essential to Biggs' strategy. In effect, this is a general T-65 buff that devalues Biggs. For Instance:

Wedge Antilles (36)
X-Wing (29), M9-G8 (3), Predator (3), XJ-3 X-wing (1), Integrated Astromech (0)

Wes Janson (33)
X-Wing (29), R3-A2 (2), Veteran Instincts (1), XJ-3 X-wing (1), Integrated Astromech (0)

"Hobbie" Klivian (30)
X-Wing (25), R2-D6 (1), Integrated Astromech (0), XJ-3 X-wing (1), Push the Limit (3)

Giving you a list with 3 arc-dodging, high action economy ships. Hobbie gets a straight 3 actions a turn with Focus+Target Lock +Boost/Barrel, an excels against swarms, while being totally stressless. Wedge is an Ace-killer, with Predator and M9-G8, he can dish it out in the end-game, and in the early game buff Wes. Wes is great at token stripping, and at PS10 with R3-A2 and M9-G8's reroll he can do some damage on the side. Overall you get a highly efficient, maybe tier 2 list, with tools against a majority of meta squads (stress dealing for Attanni and PTL aces, Lowered agility + token stripping for high agility aces, PS10 for the end-game arena, etc). All without making Biggs better.

For the third point, I think you're right, in a way. If Corran Horn had green hard turns then Bggs would be broken, because Biggs guarantees Corran makes it to the endgame, and Corran is an endgame monster with green turns. But Rebel ships are designed to have a weaker endgame than the other two factions (note their lack of individual action economy and good PS9 pilots...) in order to balance out Biggs. This is often expressed via low agility, easy to hit ships with a lot of health, since they have such weak endgames.

This pattern will continue into wave 11, where the Auzituck's Reinforce is far better than an evade in the early game, but much worse in the endgame against any ace.

Yeah. The issue is if you give a buff for t65s, the first and most common thing it would get put on is Biggs since he is the t65 most commonly run.

So unless its some sort of upgrade that has some antisynergy with Biggs, or just works better with other pilots, you'd just see Biggs getting buffed.

Really, maybe what we need are Generic Pilot only upgrades.

Squad Tactics upgrade card: this type of card may only be equipped by non-unique ships.

Escort Training: Squad Tactics card: cost 2 points: Action: perform an evade action and choose a friendly ship at range 1. That friendly ship may spend evade tokens on this ship as if they were its own.

Wingman: Squad Tactics card: cost 2 points. Action: choose a friendly small ship at range 1-2. That ship gains either +1 agility or +1 to its primary weapon value during the next combat phase.

Pack Hunter: Squad Tactics card: cost 1 point: gain +1 to primary weapon value when attacking an enemy ship that is within the firing arc of one or more other friendly ships with the Pack Hunter card.

This might sound crazy, but it's not a problem if they buff Biggs.

It's a problem if they buff X-wings in a way that emphasises Biggs ability even further. Integrated Astromech absolutely buffed Biggs - durability increases make his fundamental power even better. Should it be a firepower boost, however, that does make Biggs more powerful for sure. But: Biggs isn't taken because he's overpowered in an efficiency sense, but for his special ability.

Provided you avoid making that special ability stronger still, an X-wing buff can help all the X-wing pilots. Yes, Biggs will benefit - but if it's, for example, an extra red dice? To make the most of the fix, you want your X-wings alive to keep shooting. Biggs ends up, technically speaking, a little stronger than he was - any shots he takes are now better shots - but he doesn't get nearly the same benefit and excitement out of it compared to, say, Wedge... or even a Rookie, because it doesn't synergize with his special power.

Whether his ability needs toning down in addition to that is another matter entirely. I can see it both ways, but it's not the same problem as E-wings and Corran (In which you have to be careful not to overpower a high-efficiency ace when boosting the generics) or Defenders (Look what happened to Vessery, and the mid-PS pilot they had to release to even be comparable); his power isn't in his efficiency, but in his ability to control the board. Keeping that fact in mind when defining fixes is going to be the key to the X-wing buff, whatever form it comes in.

Give new X-wings abilities that only work outside of range 1 of an ally.

Biggs nerfed.

1 hour ago, Reiver said:

Biggs isn't taken because he's overpowered in an efficiency sense, but for his special ability.

Provided you avoid making that special ability stronger still, an X-wing buff can help all the X-wing pilots. Yes, Biggs will benefit - but if it's, for example, an extra red dice? To make the most of the fix, you want your X-wings alive to keep shooting. Biggs ends up, technically speaking, a little stronger than he was - any shots he takes are now better shots - but he doesn't get nearly the same benefit and excitement out of it compared to, say, Wedge... or even a Rookie, because it doesn't synergize with his special power.

Whether his ability needs toning down in addition to that is another matter entirely. I can see it both ways, but it's not the same problem as E-wings and Corran (In which you have to be careful not to overpower a high-efficiency ace when boosting the generics) or Defenders (Look what happened to Vessery, and the mid-PS pilot they had to release to even be comparable); his power isn't in his efficiency, but in his ability to control the board. Keeping that fact in mind when defining fixes is going to be the key to the X-wing buff, whatever form it comes in.

Biggs would be exactly as powerful relative to other X-wings as he is now if you just hand all X-wings +1 red die because it's still the very best special ability, it would just now be on an even better platform. How is +1 red die better for a rookie squadron pilot than it is for Biggs? Biggs has higher pilot skill, and worth putting R4-D6 on so he lasts longer.

You would certainly see way more X-wings on the field, but Biggs would still be at the core of every triple X list. Kanan/Biggs wouldn't randomly turn into Kanan/Wedge, it would just make an already top tier list into an even top tierrier one.

The Corran solution is an easy one. Make whatever fix centered around generic droids. Corran isn't a problem if he doesn't have R2-D2 (although he's not really much of one currently anyway). If they, say, gave E-wings a discounted tech slot if they buy a non-unique droid (and release some decent generic droids), generic E-wings with comm relays would be considerably better than they are now. Corran with comm relay and juke would be great offensively, but not nearly as powerful as a regen Corran.

1 hour ago, Sekac said:

Biggs would be exactly as powerful relative to other X-wings as he is now if you just hand all X-wings +1 red die because it's still the very best special ability, it would just now be on an even better platform. How is +1 red die better for a rookie squadron pilot than it is for Biggs? Biggs has higher pilot skill, and worth putting R4-D6 on so he lasts longer.

You would certainly see way more X-wings on the field, but Biggs would still be at the core of every triple X list. Kanan/Biggs wouldn't randomly turn into Kanan/Wedge, it would just make an already top tier list into an even top tierrier one.

The Corran solution is an easy one. Make whatever fix centered around generic droids. Corran isn't a problem if he doesn't have R2-D2 (although he's not really much of one currently anyway). If they, say, gave E-wings a discounted tech slot if they buy a non-unique droid (and release some decent generic droids), generic E-wings with comm relays would be considerably better than they are now. Corran with comm relay and juke would be great offensively, but not nearly as powerful as a regen Corran.

Kanan/Biggs wouldn't change to Kanan/Wedge because the whole reason Biggs is there is because it's Biggs, not because it wants an X-wing, which is rather my point. Even so, a rookie benefits far more in proportion to Biggs, because a Rookies primary job is to shoot things to pieces.

It wouldn't take Biggs out of the equation, no. My argument is that fixing Biggs from being Biggs is not what is needed before one can have an X-wing fix.