Perhaps even a ban?

It would certainly help bring back some fun.

No, not really. Not sure what about the game needs saving tbh. I enjoy playing against TLTs, it's a challenge.

If you don't enjoy playing vs TLTs, or Atanni, or palp aces, or defenders, ask the people you're playing not to play those things. Use Vassal, HotAC, scenarios, OT format, etc. Nobody forces you to play in a tournament - just don't judge people for what they fly.

46 minutes ago, Shadow345 said:

Perhaps even a ban?

No, no bans. you can't have pen and ink errata and bans unless you want to totally destroy the game.

However I go into and explain while TLTs are almost a necessary evil in THIS thread. I recommend you check it out before you go requesting things in the game you don't like are removed.

Why on earth would X-wing need saving? It's probably the most dynamic competitive miniature game out there and it captured the majority of Warhammer players after GW did everything in their power to lose them.

Crucially, it's still a game with very diverse meta. You can never quite tell which faction (let alone which list) is going to win the next big tournament. TLTs are certainly powerful and unfortunately rather boring to play (though maybe it's good thing since it limits their appeal) but they hardly break the game. For that matter, now that u-boats are back once more, TLTs will be hard pressed to stay competitive. After all, it's the u-boats that wiped Thug Life off the tables and I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to do so once more.

Twin Laser Turret : " You cannot modify your attack dice. "

Attani Mindlink : "each other unstressed friendly ship"

Extra Munitions : " place 1 Ordnance token on this card. When you are instructed to discard a Torpedo, Missile or Bomb upgrade card you may discard 1 Ordnance token from this card instead. "

TLTs are just a good card. There are lots of "good cards" in X Wing and nerfing them does nothing apart from making other cards "good cards" instead.

We should wait and see what future Waves bring, not just swing the nerf bat at every card that's tough to play against.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

No, no bans. you can't have pen and ink errata and bans unless you want to totally destroy the game.

However I go into and explain while TLTs are almost a necessary evil in THIS thread. I recommend you check it out before you go requesting things in the game you don't like are removed.

Hmm. I never thought of TLT as keeping Fat Hans/Reys in check but I guess it is a necessary evil as you say.

1 hour ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Twin Laser Turret : " You cannot modify your attack dice. "

Attani Mindlink : "each other unstressed friendly ship"

Extra Munitions : " place 1 Ordnance token on this card. When you are instructed to discard a Torpedo, Missile or Bomb upgrade card you may discard 1 Ordnance token from this card instead. "

They are all simple and clever. Especially the Extra Munitions is still good, as you can get another 4pt ordnance for just 2pt, so it's still well worth it.

Half witted, scruffy looking nerf herders.

15 minutes ago, Cailais said:

TLTs are just a good card

What makes them so good? From my point of view the Jedi are evil.

I would have agreed to nerf the TLT´s a while back, now I´m aggressively opposing the idea.

The Emperor and Defenders have just been nerfed, and just now before the Empire finally is receiving the same weapons Scum and Rebels already have, NOW you want to nerf them? No way. Unless we get our Emperor back.

How about nerf to regeneration: how about regen was possible only up to how much the ships has shield value, e. g. 3 times for X-wing?

Now that the ships are listed in order, Rebel players can´t even start to argue that any Imperial ship or card is OP. So in this light, nerfing the Emperor was totally unnecessary, maybe even the Defenders.

3 minutes ago, Pretty Green said:

I would have agreed to nerf the TLT´s a while back, now I´m aggressively opposing the idea.

The Emperor and Defenders have just been nerfed, and just now before the Empire finally is receiving the same weapons Scum and Rebels already have, NOW you want to nerf them? No way. Unless we get our Emperor back.

How about nerf to regeneration: how about regen was possible only up to how much the ships has shield value, e. g. 3 times for X-wing?

Now that the ships are listed in order, Rebel players can´t even start to argue that any Imperial ship or card is OP. So in this light, nerfing the Emperor was totally unnecessary, maybe even the Defenders.

That's not a nerf, that's how the rule for shield regeneration works. Some Rebel (or Scum) player has been cheating you if that's the case.

Just now, Lampyridae said:

That's not a nerf, that's how the rule for shield regeneration works.

I think he means 'over the course of the game a ship can only regenerate a number of shields up to its original shield value'. I.e. you can only use R2D2's effect 3 times on an otherwise unmodified T70. No more regen ships having infinite HP if they manage to lose only one per round.

It would certainly rein in the tendency to strike once and if you're not crippled or killed in that strike it often becomes impossible to kill you forever that Corran frequently has, and would corral a lot of the frustration of playing against regen that can arise. But I suspect it would be over-nerfing it.

14 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Half witted, scruffy looking nerf herders.

Who's scruffy looking?

You know what regen aces don't like? TLTs.

Just sayin...

2 minutes ago, banjobenito said:

You know what regen aces don't like? TLTs.

Just sayin...

Does anyone like TLTs?

Just now, banjobenito said:

You know what regen aces don't like? TLTs.

Just sayin...

erm.

That's not my experience of regen aces. Or at least not Corran/Poe. Miranda and Norra like them a lot less than Corran/Poe do. Corran/Poe can usually block one shot if not both, and regen the other if they don't block it, and a list with them can typically kill TLTs quickly enough that they get to the point where they're functionally invincible.

Regen aces like reliable low damage a LOT more than they like massive spike damage. If you want to kill regen you need focus fire with lots of red dice doing lots of damage.

Quad TLTs can do that focus fire better, though - but they're a lot more vulnerable to PS kills and donuts.

"Does anyone like TLTs?"

Oh Soontir my Soontir!

*sniff*

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

I think he means 'over the course of the game a ship can only regenerate a number of shields up to its original shield value'. I.e. you can only use R2D2's effect 3 times on an otherwise unmodified T70. No more regen ships having infinite HP if they manage to lose only one per round.

It would certainly rein in the tendency to strike once and if you're not crippled or killed in that strike it often becomes impossible to kill you forever that Corran frequently has, and would corral a lot of the frustration of playing against regen that can arise. But I suspect it would be over-nerfing it.

That would another game mechanic to keep track of. It would also kill half of the new C-ROC releases stone dead. I think regen is fine, especially considering that it is one of the few things that keeps X-Wings (Biggs) on the table.

1 minute ago, BlodVargarna said:

Does anyone like TLTs?

[Laughs in Ghost/Decimator]

15 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

erm.

That's not my experience of regen aces. Or at least not Corran/Poe. Miranda and Norra like them a lot less than Corran/Poe do. Corran/Poe can usually block one shot if not both, and regen the other if they don't block it, and a list with them can typically kill TLTs quickly enough that they get to the point where they're functionally invincible.

Regen aces like reliable low damage a LOT more than they like massive spike damage. If you want to kill regen you need focus fire with lots of red dice doing lots of damage.

Quad TLTs can do that focus fire better, though - but they're a lot more vulnerable to PS kills and donuts.

That's interesting... I've found that Corran doesn't mind a single tlt too much, but that is an uncommon build indeed. Normally it's a ghost/phantom tlt 4-shot, 'agro/agro/agro/hwk', a pair with a bigbase ace, etc.

In that situation Corran is going to get stripped very quickly, unless he can ride the bubble perfectly, using only green maneuvers. In which case, congratulations Corran player, you've won a deserved victory. But boo to the tlt player, you've managed your list's central weakness badly.

Miranda hates them, as if she's in range to regen-shot, she's in range to take a lot of return fire.

Every other regen-droid carrier isn't going to do well either, with the exception of Poe. If Poe is facing normal tlts then he should do pretty well - that was one of his strengths when he was in ascendency; it was a tlt rich meta, and his AT/ability combo made him shrug off a lot of that spam. Against agro mech tlts, or the ghost, even Poe struggles.

Anyway, that's my experience, take it for what little it's worth

Honestly, I tend to look at the discussion on TLTs as an upgrade as mostly being used singly or in pairs (i.e. big ship and two Ys, Miranda possibly with another TLT ally, or Ghost with Phantom). I'd look at quad TLT as a whole separate ball game.

Miranda will usually kill a single TLT carrier before it can kill her - because she'll also be packing bombs and homing missiles so she can spike them down to the point where she can kill them quicker than they can kill her. Or just bomb them then PWT them from in their donut hole.

Corran ditto. Against two running him I'd hope to be able to donut one and kill it and weather the other - two four die shots will cripple most TLTs and they're low enough PS that he should be able to get those shots pretty reliably.

Quad TLT lists are a different kettle of fish altogether and yeah, tend to do a number on most sources of regen except good old Poeseph J Dameron.

2 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Twin Laser Turret : " You cannot modify your attack dice. "

Attani Mindlink : "each other unstressed friendly ship"

Extra Munitions : " place 1 Ordnance token on this card. When you are instructed to discard a Torpedo, Missile or Bomb upgrade card you may discard 1 Ordnance token from this card instead. "

OK, maybe TLT and attani could be changed that way, but why would you do that to Extra Munitions!? I don't see ordnance being broken really - I'd rather see Punishers/Bombers appear in the meta a bit more, not get nerfed!

Just now, ThalanirIII said:

OK, maybe TLT and attani could be changed that way, but why would you do that to Extra Munitions!? I don't see ordnance being broken really - I'd rather see Punishers/Bombers appear in the meta a bit more, not get nerfed!

K Wings, I'd assume.

I think that TLT should allow the defender the range bonus die and that would open it up a bit.

I've got used to flying Miranda/ashoka/warden lately with one TLT and some bombs thrown around for good measure. its a fun list to fly and i end up not using my tlt much in the first load of rounds (slamming bombs/mines are fun!)