Hi,

I just want to propose something to see what the comunity think about it, two questions indeed:

1) Scoring (small ships giving 40-50 points MoV)

So FAQ on large ship scoring was needed since those kind of squads with just 2 ships had very abusive MoV because large ships are hard to kill and they can equip a lot of combos to survive, but here is my question, what is the difference with small ships of 40-50 points that can regenerate shields (Miranda, Poe, Corran or Norra for instance) or are almost untouchable as soontir (in the past) or defenders that are very hard to kill because of the evade action and 3 defense, and 3 shields and 3 hull.

Why those expensive ships do not give half scoring when half damaged? Soon wave11 would bring more dicussion on this.

I think this could be the way to stop people to taking the most of the scoring system and have somethhing more balanced, and as well see more generic pilots in tournaments.

2) Repositioning (Free superiority on maneuver)

At this point I would even say boost and tonel is enough useful to no allow players to correct an overlapping, lets give more decisions to the player, more responsability on a bad or good choice instead of let him correct an error when a boost ends over an asteroid. This game is random enough to allow that kind of things. Repositioning is on high PS pilots a very powerful tool, lets give it a counterpart.

I would even say that white koigrans for Rey with Finn and Kannan is overpowered, as well as the x7 title with the white koigran on the TIE Defender, it gives a lot of advantage.

What do you thing about all this?

1: I kind of agree. I think the large ship MoV rule is kind of arbitrary and would probably be better expressed as 'ships costing more than X points (probably 35 or so) give half points when at half health.'. I'd also like to do SOMETHING about MoV for regen, but I'm not sure what. Maybe institute some way of tracking how many times a regen ship has regenned, but even that's probably too fiddly.

2: I'm not sure what you mean. Are you suggesting that you should be able to bump and go onto rocks with boosts and barrel rolls? That's a bad idea. There's already a couter to arc dodging, it's called turrets. And now, also bomber K Wings.

And on your sloops question... nah, they're not overpowered. They're powerful, sure. But not overpowered; they're predictable and blockable, and you can shut them down to some extent with stress. And the whole ships costs a minimum of 55 points or so, so it had *better* be powerful.

I'm also not sure how any of this is rules questions? This forum is generally used to ask questions of fact, not questions of balance.

Are you suggesting a rewriting of the current rules for small base ships MOV in tournaments? Your second point was completely lost on me though. You're suggesting that boost and barrel rolls should be able to complete even if they overlap an obstacle or another ship?

Sorry if this is not the place for those questions.

Yes the idea is to discuss and see what the comunity think about all this.

Main question is the MoV for small ships.

About 2nd question, you are right, is exactly what I mean, boosting and barrell rolling is too powerful on PS8,9+ in fact too good on large ships. Having an error on calculate where a barrell roll or a boost is going to end could give a penalty and make the player think more about it before trying. I think game has enough randomness and giving player responsability and choices affecting the game resolution is good.

White koigran is most of the time unblockable since they fly over you when you are facing each other, so rest of the ships are with no actions but those ones with "white koigran" are ships having 2 actions or more dice on offense and defense with reroll... something brutal IMHO.

I agree with your point about high point value small ships and MoV.

I disagree about the rest.

If you're going award half a ship's points as MoV just because a ship is at half its starting hull+shield then that is what the rule should be. No need to discriminate based on ship size when the real problem is ship point values. Two 50 points ships go at it and at the end of the game both are down to 1 hull remaining who wins? Simple, the small based ship completely conquered the game as it "killed" 25 points worth of his large opponent while giving up NOTHING despite both ships just barely hanging on to life.

Do you hope FFG think about it and change this scoring rule?

Hope, yes.

Expect, no.

I agree with the first point. If big ships operating as point sinks was a problem for MoV in earlier versions of the game I don't see why small ships doing the same thing isn't also a problem. You can easily have a ship like Miranda or an Arc cost more than a lot of large ships so why don't they follow the same rules? When I played triple Defenders I won a lot of games 100-0 despite having all my ships down to 1-2 hull by the end game and it always felt a bit cheap to me, as if I was gaming the system somehow.

I don't think the game would be negatively affected by just using the half points for half killed rules for everything. Setting a points limit on it seems a little too arbitrary and could lead to a similar situation later on where some ships aren't affected while others are.

K-Wing is a good example, they have 9 life like Jumpmaster and they cost at base value nearly the same. Yes jumpmaster have 2 defense instead of 1, but I would hardly call that relevant on their survivability to be worth half point.

And yes I expect them to "fix" it, we have example in the past that they react to intelligent change talked on the forum. They need to revert back to no half cost or extend it to every ship. Even base one, it was no more fun having all B at 2-1 life during BBBBZ time and be rewarded 0 points. Yes I should have focus fired, but sometime it is not always possible.

There are actually two ways to go at it if one wanted to balance things differently: either make small ships follow the same rule as large ships or lower the impact on large ships. If we go for the latter then we could change the rules for MOV for large ships as follow:

"A a player scores half of the MOV of a large ship if the large ship has an amount of damage equal or greater to half of its initial Hull value."

The reason why I'm suggestion this is simply because:

- It's a pain to calculate the half MOV value of every ship on the board if you were to have a swarm.

- I always found it weird to give half the MOV to an opponent for shield damage (something that thematically regenerates when battle is over)

- In the case of ships, like the IG-88, they don't have a lot of health / shields to begin with. Losing 4 shields is ridiculously easy during the first engagement, but losing that next 2 hull can be harder if you slip behind your opponent (autothrusters).

- It would nudge the balance of other large ships a little, but not too much.

- I think we are no longer in a place where large ships dominate everything.

That's just my 2 cents, however.

Ideally we'd have some kind of escalating curve (exponential? logarithmic? not sure what'd produce the best results) where your first lost hit point gave up no MoV, but as you got closer to death the MoV per hit point would increase, representing the fact that a ship that's badly damaged but still functional is worth more to you than a ship that's destroyed.

But of course we don't have that much time.

Maybe instead of "Large based ships" the half MoV rule should be applied to ships with more than n hit points.

On 4/3/2017 at 4:42 PM, negroscuro said:

Main question is the MoV for small ships.

Agreed. It has been discussed multiple times since rise of 50+pts Miranda.

On 4/3/2017 at 4:42 PM, negroscuro said:

About 2nd question, you are right, is exactly what I mean, boosting and barrell rolling is too powerful on PS8,9+ in fact too good on large ships. Having an error on calculate where a barrell roll or a boost is going to end could give a penalty and make the player think more about it before trying. I think game has enough randomness and giving player responsability and choices affecting the game resolution is good.

High ps part : when it is the last time you saw a full fledged arc dodger? They almost died now...not OP at all. (Fenn is not full dodger so dont bring him here, he lives by a bit different principle). And back in the days arc dodgers were fragile. So fragile sometimes that failing just one boost+br combo meant they were dead. 100% "no" here.

On large ships part: ok so how many large ships take engine upgrade or have native BR?

Ketsu and Boba - niche case, but they take it to close distance, it that so op?

Dash - his whole point is to be mobile lol. Take that away and we have tier sheisse ship. Plus he needs to fly around his r1 safe zone so half of the time he wont even arc dodge.

Heragator and Deci. - ok 2 ships that are full fledged large arc dodgers. But hey look! They got 0 agility. So its the only defence they have...

IGs - 8hp large ship. They are designed to be agile. And they are not arcdodgeing.

On 4/3/2017 at 4:42 PM, negroscuro said:

White koigran is most of the time unblockable since they fly over you when you are facing each other, so rest of the ships are with no actions but those ones with "white koigran" are ships having 2 actions or more dice on offense and defense with rerol

They are 3 ships with white kturn in game:

Defenders - so predictable movement. They note you about kturn from mile away.

Rey (falcon but we all know we talk Rey here) - ok she makes most of it. But she is 60 points ship. She needs to be strong to pay herself back. And it costs her 2 slots to get it.

JM5k - we all know that FFG kinda floated away designing this ship. Dial is one of the most op things it have.

I really hope they change the half-points MoV rule to include all ships. We're well past the point where small ships can have just as much health and be just as hard to kill as large ships.

22 hours ago, dotswarlock said:

There are actually two ways to go at it if one wanted to balance things differently: either make small ships follow the same rule as large ships or lower the impact on large ships. If we go for the latter then we could change the rules for MOV for large ships as follow:

"A a player scores half of the MOV of a large ship if the large ship has an amount of damage equal or greater to half of its initial Hull value."

The reason why I'm suggestion this is simply because:

- It's a pain to calculate the half MOV value of every ship on the board if you were to have a swarm.

- I always found it weird to give half the MOV to an opponent for shield damage (something that thematically regenerates when battle is over)

It's always dangerous to bring theme and background into game balance so I don't agree with your second point. The first point also strikes me as odd. If calculating MOV for every ship on the board is a pain how is it not more of a pain to have to check every ship to see if it's lost half of its hull and then calculate half MOV from that?

I don't really understand how it's a pain in the first place anyway. It only applies to ships still on the board when time is called and it's not exactly a difficult calculation.