So, playing a 2 hero Labyrinth of Ruin campaign against Ispher the Bard (other hero imho doesn't matter, but in this case is Astarra the Battlemage Beastmaster).

For the most part, Act I went in my (the Overloards) favor, and balance was right on point. Every quest won or lost came down to a final round or a final win/lose die roll and was very enjoyable. However, I have noticed that there is a certain type of quest that I simply can not win, and that is any quest where the hero win condition is to kill a lieutenant.

For example, last night we played Armed to the Teeth (Act II rumor quest from Lair of the Wyrm). The first encounter went as expected, Minion Golem in the cabin, Merriod on the campsite. Round One, heroes opened the door to the campsite, killed the golem (bad die rolls for defense), but missed the killing blow on the SoulBound servant (ties that bind). The servant lit the signal fire and opened the door activating the fire imp group, fire imps lit the other 2 signal fires. Next round heroes moved in, killed the Merriod, pretty much destroying any chance of the OL winning, so we spent the next 8 rounds just hiding Splig to maximize the number of OL cards drawn when entering Encounter 2.

The second encounter is where the problem lies. OL win conditions require the Hybrid Sentinel to spend 4 turns in the forge (which is 7 squares away from his closest starting point), then move off the map... TWICE. Since there are no reinforcements until after the heroes have opened the door, the OL can not win until heroes have completed that first objective. Delaying the heroes as much as possible in the first area, playing a dash card to move the Hybrid Sentinel to the forge in the first round, I completed all the aurium armaments required and moved the Sentinel one space from the exit. Heroes then opened the door, drank 2 stamina potions (there are 4 search tokens outside the gates), and moved all the way into the lair and engaged Valyndria. Now this WOULD seem like a stupid idea, since I have an entire hand full of OL cards, Valyndria has firebreath and hits like a truck, etc, except the HEROES DON'T CARE IF THEY DIE.

Thanks to Ispher the bard, even in the case of a total party wipe, Ispher recovers 2 hearts at the start of his turn (standing up), and has 2 actions + one extra attack (2 hero rule), at the end of his turn, Astarra stands up (bard song heal for one), and has another 3 attacks. Since Valyndria has only 15 total health, rolling 2 grey die, she really can only survive 3-5 attack actions... and the heroes get 6. In order to win, Valyndria must survive for 3 full rounds (once the door is open, spawning a new Sentinel on the Ruins, and moving them fully off the exit, with doors in the way). Not going to happen.. which leaves only one choice, fly her away as fast as I can. Using 2 move actions, she can get 8 spaces away from her starting location. Ispher recovers 2 fatigue at the start of his turn, uses the lute on Astarra (who recovers 2 fatigue), does one move action, and fatigues to get within 3 of Valyndria and does 2 attacks with a ranged weapon. Does the same, using the fatigue to teleport to Ispher, and does 3 attacks. Dead Dragon.

The issue here is that the quest timing is entirely dependent on being able to delay the heroes by costing them the fatigue and actions required to stand up/heal. Without any action cost for Ispher to stand himself up, these quests are unwinnable by the OL .

Sure, there are some monsters I could use to delay the heroes.. but since its a 2 hero game, most monsters groups are a single minion monster without the signature ability that would help to delay them (no throw on minion ettin etc).... plus the open group is usually set up to be first turn fodder anyway.

For reference;
https://wiki.descent-community.org/Bard (Bard. using Concentration, Song of Mending (heart recovery), and Understudy (additional fatigue recovery)).

https://wiki.descent-community.org/Ispher (Ispher)

One of the problems you describe is based on getting Ispher's Hero ability wrong: Knocked-out heroes cannot use abilities or benefit from passive abilities unless explicitly allowed. There is no auto-revive for Ispher.

Maybe the confusion is based on the fact that other heroes can benefit from certain passive abilities of a knocked out hero. However, the knocked out hero himself can't.

... WHAT!

Is it not explicitly allowed under the 'primary function is healing' rule?

"A knocked out hero may still recover damage from other heroes through the use of skills, potions, and being revived (see “Revive a Hero” on page 10). If a knocked out hero recovers at least one damage, he immediately replaces his hero token with his figure and may perform actions as normal on his next turn."

(although reading that now... it clearly says 'other heroes')

Now I feel like I need to re-run the entire campaign. (I REALLY wanted to win that quest).

Here is the link to the uFAQ on this. Just in case you need to convince your hero players

:/ Yeah, that was a misread of Ispher that really looks like it tilted the outcome of that quest.

For further clarification, that rule you cited is concerned with when hero tokens can be treated like heroes- not when heroes can use certain abilities.

Your grievances remain valid fore the case where Ispher is up and the party is KO around him.

Maybe repaly just that quest (or just encounter 2) if your heroes are agreeable?

I don't think we will replay it. Heroes nabbed a treasure chest, and secret room during the encounter, and had the ability to cancel one OL card (from the secret room). Assuming they used it to cancel the Frenzy card, Val *may* not have been able to kill them that round, which would have had the same result. If I had wiped the party, standing up Ispher first, and using the end of turn heal to revive Astarra would still have left her with 3 attacks, not enough to kill Val that round (probably) but enough that even wiping the group a second time the next round would have probably resulted in Heroes winning the quest one round before the last Sentinel would get off the map.

It would have been much closer though, so I feel better about that.

At least with that rule correction I feel its a little more even, and more the result of not having the right OL deck to handle this type of quest.

Also, I am guessing that most of these quests were balanced BEFORE the 2-hero rule (such as the Lieutenant life totals and armor), so I will blame that to a certain extent too.

True enough. The two-hero rule may have gone slightly too far in helping the heroes, but it at least makes two-hero games playable. Before it, even with a strong pair, OL victory was almost certain.