Bistan was right in the very first promotional material. I think the issue is opening a side door to space (yes this is Star Wars) but still.

People are still in the arc dodger/jouster/turret mindset of looking at ships so they have no idea what to do with a ship that falls outside those classes. The U looks like it takes planning and skill to use effectively, and that's some things that most X-wingers just don't bother with. It's a beefier 3att Y-wing stats wise but has basically a HWK dial and a clever 0 speed turn that can be used to trick opponents who think they know what you are planning. That system slot and ability to put 2 crew in there should go a very long way in building unique support abilities .

If they had been able to watch the scenes involving the U wing, I am sure they would of had made it like a Rebel Shadow Caster.

The U wing title would of still been 0 points but also demand that you equip a cannon costing no more than 3 points as well. The attack side would of then added:

Instead of attacking, you may perform an attack with an equipped Cannon upgrade from your left or right firing arc.

Then Bisten would be:

Bisten - 2 points
When attacking with a secondary weapon, if the attack hits, after you have resolved the cards standard effects, the enemy ship suffers a critical hit result.

So now you have Support ship that can fire either a Flechette or Ion Cannon, dealing a potential two damage a turn plus effects out of its side arcs. Couple that with FCS and you have your self a capable gunship that cannot be ignored for too long.

Yeah this sounds amazing.

This post is not about the cost to ratio value or Meta...simply about ship stats compared to other ships. 4 Hull + 4 Shields. Agi 1.5. Large base. I know FFG wants my money and I want to invest it in beautiful models. 4 Hull? Really? Perhaps FFG purposedly designed a cheap support ship. Why is this slender and iconic ship so weak?

I think they were just trying to follow it's design as in how this ship would compare to existing ships in space combat.

"The UT-60D U-wing starfighter/support craft[2] also known as the UT-60D, or U-wing, was a transport/gunship model manufactured by Incom Corporation and used by the Alliance to Restore the Republic during the Galactic Civil War. Used to drop troops into battle, and provide cover fire for them. The U-wing's shielding, armor, and hold full of passengers led the craft to handle more like a heavy repulsorcraft than a swift space superiority vessel." -Wookieepedia

It's not weak at all given it's fighting a battle it was not designed to fight. It seems their shielding and armor was designed to face incoming attacks from ground troops hand-held weapons and small mobile platforms, not weapons used by space superiority fighters in deep space. I think the 4 hull 4 shields stat line fits in with those parameters quite well.

Correct. But we have no small mobile plataforms or hand held weapons in this game...

'Iconic'?

You mean the ship that featured in 37 seconds of screen time before crashing into the nearest rock?

To be fair, there were some overheads, also the awesome escape from Jeddha, and the beach landing. So iconic-ish?

I really like this idea. Maybe as a U-wing only mod. Side Heavy Ion Cannon's, only uses side arc.

Thanks Brother. Yeah it is only the 90 degree arcs, and you need to get that Target Locked on, and it cost 10 big points; but it sure will do what we saw it do in the film ... and here at Boss Central THAT is what we consider "viable" .

Its not maneuverable enough to be a workhorse as any even remotely agile ship can fly circles around it

its cost and dial suggest support ship, but the issue isnt the dial its the crew. Rebels only have 2-3 crew that actually affect OTHER ships, and one is tied to the ships' arc (Jyn) while the other is almost never taken unless the specific ship needs it (Kanan) and can take it itself. Jan is the other one thats good on there. To an extent Inspiring Recruit would be fine, but again usually its taken on a ship that wants that effect and not the nearby ships.

Had Jyn been "of that ship's firing arc" instead of "Your firing arc" she would be an outright amazing card. Sadly, no.

Imperials have Hux, Fleet Officer, System Officer, Palp, Kylo, Mara Jade, and Hotshot Copilot (since the UPS can actually keep its arc on things to be a danger). All of which are great support cards, either directly or indirectly.

Im positive once the rebels actually get some decent other friendly ship crew, the uwing will be more popular.

Joe, you are a true Joker. Your ships make me smile. Thumbs up.

4 hours ago, Giledhil said:

Hint : they're not.

Reality: they are weak.

I mean, since their release, we've had what, at least a dozen big Regionals and a half-dozen huge System Opens and precisely how many U-Wings making it into the Top 32? I'd wager a guess the number is mighty close to zero.

Just now, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Reality: they are weak.

I mean, since their release, we've had what, at least a dozen big Regionals and a half-dozen huge System Opens and precisely how many U-Wings making it into the Top 32? I'd wager a guess the number is mighty close to zero.

Oh, I didn't know that game stopped existing outside of Regional or higher competitions. So not being part of the really narrow high level competition meta makes a ship weak? Then we should wine for Brobots or TIE Phantom are really really weak.

7 minutes ago, Hexdot said:

Joe, you are a true Joker. Your ships make me smile. Thumbs up.

You know... they make me smile too. Now that I have most of them done, for the entire game (plus what I added to it) it is kinda fun... yes fun all of the time.

2 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Oh, I didn't know that game stopped existing outside of Regional or higher competitions.

Welcome to the XWM forum!

My biggest problems with the U-Wing? It's not very durable; it's incredibly unmaneuverable (with a large base, poor dial and no repositioning); it's difficult to fly in formation with other Rebel jousters; only one pilot has an EPT; and it has the single worst turnaround maneuver in the game. If you had to broadcast your maneuver OR lower your agility, that'd be fine; but doing both? Awful. Especially considering that you need the enemy to be actually BEHIND you for it to work.

I really wish they'd given it Coordinate. At least then there'd be a reason to bring it.

1 minute ago, Ailowynn said:

My biggest problems with the U-Wing? It's not very durable; it's incredibly unmaneuverable (with a large base, poor dial and no repositioning); it's difficult to fly in formation with other Rebel jousters; only one pilot has an EPT; and it has the single worst turnaround maneuver in the game. If you had to broadcast your maneuver OR lower your agility, that'd be fine; but doing both? Awful. Especially considering that you need the enemy to be actually BEHIND you for it to work.

I really wish they'd given it Coordinate. At least then there'd be a reason to bring it.

The U Wing getting Co-ordinate as well as the UPS would have been amazing and made it a really cool and good ship.

7 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Oh, I didn't know that game stopped existing outside of Regional or higher competitions. So not being part of the really narrow high level competition meta makes a ship weak? Then we should wine for Brobots or TIE Phantom are really really weak.

Being weak doesn't mean you can't play it outside a big tournament.

It just means if you do play it there, you probably won't do very well.

20 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I think they were just trying to follow it's design as in how this ship would compare to existing ships in space combat.

"The UT-60D U-wing starfighter/support craft[2] also known as the UT-60D, or U-wing, was a transport/gunship model manufactured by Incom Corporation and used by the Alliance to Restore the Republic during the Galactic Civil War. Used to drop troops into battle, and provide cover fire for them. The U-wing's shielding, armor, and hold full of passengers led the craft to handle more like a heavy repulsorcraft than a swift space superiority vessel." -Wookieepedia

It's not weak at all given it's fighting a battle it was not designed to fight. It seems their shielding and armor was designed to face incoming attacks from ground troops hand-held weapons and small mobile platforms, not weapons used by space superiority fighters in deep space. I think the 4 hull 4 shields stat line fits in with those parameters quite well.

17 minutes ago, Hexdot said:

Correct. But we have no small mobile plataforms or hand held weapons in this game...

Exactly. But if the Mouse wants the new movie ships in the game, FFG has to take some of the reality of the ship into the game; I think they did a good job bridging that fairly wide gap. It's akin to why Shuttles can't turn around. I mean, they clearly can and do in the movies; but they cannot turn like a space fighter with that speed nor are they designed to in a combat situation. That's why (I'm guessing) that the designers made it so they cannot turn around in this game. In this ship's design, to keep the game about what ships can do in deep space combat against ships designed specifically to excel in that arena, they did a fairly admirable job on the stats and dial.

If you really want to get some b***hing started, ask why clunky space freighters can out gun and out maneuver space superiority fighters. Now that's where FFG actually messed up; Ugggg.

13 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Oh, I didn't know that game stopped existing outside of Regional or higher competitions. So not being part of the really narrow high level competition meta makes a ship weak? Then we should wine for Brobots or TIE Phantom are really really weak.

If a ship's power level is not related to it's capacity for performance in the hands of competitive players at events with sufficiently large numbers of players and diversity, than what ought it be based on?

The casual game is fine and wonderful and a great way to enjoy the game, but the power-level of ships/upgrades/builds has to be related, at least at some point, to the competitive game. Otherwise what are we talking about?

" Guys, the U-Wing is really good! I beat my 6 year old's Youngster-Markmanship build with it !!!" - Basement Ace

4 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Oh, I didn't know that game stopped existing outside of Regional or higher competitions. So not being part of the really narrow high level competition meta makes a ship weak? Then we should wine for Brobots or TIE Phantom are really really weak.

A) When you're talking about the strength of a ship, it only makes sense to look at competitive results. The only competitive results we've had have been Regionals and higher, aside from a few small tourneys, and it's hard to draw conclusions from those.

B) Brobots and TIE Phantoms have both made Top 8 appearances. I know the Phantom has won at least one Regional.

C) Even if you don't buy that and follow through to your conclusion, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to say Phantoms and Brobots have been power creeped out of the game. They used to be strong, but they're not top tier anymore, and the tournament results may show that.

D) We could wine about it, but I much prefer to beer about it.

2 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

My biggest problems with the U-Wing? It's not very durable; it's incredibly unmaneuverable (with a large base, poor dial and no repositioning); it's difficult to fly in formation with other Rebel jousters; only one pilot has an EPT; and it has the single worst turnaround maneuver in the game. If you had to broadcast your maneuver OR lower your agility, that'd be fine; but doing both? Awful. Especially considering that you need the enemy to be actually BEHIND you for it to work.

I really wish they'd given it Coordinate. At least then there'd be a reason to bring it.

I allow (DEMAND THAT) Large Ships have access to all of the basic Huge Ship Goodies like Reinforce and Coordinate... ect.

FFG can not help that time has made their earlier ships less marvelous, but we know dam-well that these abilities should be on these ships so we should just do it... and never worry about meta-says... ever... again.

5 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The U Wing getting Co-ordinate as well as the UPS would have been amazing and made it a really cool and good ship.

Or even Bodhi Rook crew giving his ship Coordinate would have been really interesting (perhaps to represent his technical savvy with communications relays or something?). He would have been a profoundly interesting card, giving Rebels access to Coordinate on things like a Captured TIE or HWK or Falcon or something. At least he wouldn't have been a "Right to the Binder" sort of upgrade, which he is now.

5 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

If a ship's power level is not related to it's capacity for performance in the hands of competitive players at events with sufficiently large numbers of players and diversity, than what ought it be based on?

Can a ship be fun or perform well on basement and kitchen tables across the world? Of course. Does that mean it's a good ship that is well-designed and well-balanced? Of course not. Was Triple Torp Scouts (with Deadeye) not an overly powerful build just because the vast majority of kitchen tables didn't see the list? Nope.

The casual game is fine and wonderful and a great way to enjoy the game, but the power-level of ships/upgrades/builds has to be related, at least at some point, to the competitive game. Otherwise what are we talking about ?

"Guys, the U-Wing is really good! I beat my 6 year old's Youngster-Markmanship build with it!!!" - Basement Ace

Staying in our wonderful very very comfortable clean nice basements!

In my cast Battle Parlor (Den)!

4 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

We could wine about it, but I much prefer to beer about it.

This.

3 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

the power-level of ships/upgrades/builds has to be related, at least at some point, to the competitive game. Otherwise what are we talking about?

Not exactly. It is a good tool to find what are the most effective combos you can find in the game, but the predominance of those also has the effect of narrowing a lot the variety of the lists, thus ignoring quite a good number of ships that should not be considered "weak". Only not adapted to a very specific and restrictive meta.
The game is not restricted two hyper competitive events or "kitchen tables"; most of the players are somewhere between those two extremes.

"not adapted to a very specific and restricted meta" is just a more wordy way of saying "currently weak".

I mean, Soontir used to be a competitive powerhouse, but he's currently weak. Or, he's currently poorly adapted to the meta. Either way, it doesn't stop you using him outside the high level competitive meta.

Or to put it another way... why do you care if it's called 'weak'?