My group just finished 2 game sessions and earned their first points of xp. My force sensitive character player now would like to invest them in a new force power. But how is that handled by the rules? I can't find anything on that. Is she able to just buy the force power and use it, or does she have to train for a longer time.. or does she even need a mentor to teach her?

I really don't like the idea of having "*pling... you can now use force move" in the middle of an adventure..

Rules-wise, that's all you need. It's a good idea to have some sort of thematic justification just as it is with any talent tree, but in the case of force powers, "This is what I discovered while meditating/etc" works just fine.

While it's possible to put other requirements on them, all that really does is put a handicap on force sensitive characters that others don't get stuck with, and they don't need that in this system.

Having a mentor/holocron, rather than being a requirement, is better used the other way around by giving a discount.

Maybe I should add I already houseruled that new talents can only be purchased after an extended rest and skills can only be trained, if they were recently used or also on an extended rest. I think I could just add the force trees to that rule, so that if you want to learn a new force tree, you have to meditate (or come up with some other justification, like a library, holocron, force vision, ...). Just want to avoid that the characters get xp at the end of a session, spend that on new talents, and use them in the next session, while ingame no time passed (session end at the end of a fight maybe).

I could just hand out xp when they take an extended rest, but nothing would keep them from saving them and spending them after the next fight..

there is some guidance in some of the F&D career books outlining a process for learning new force powers but unfortunately i don't have my books to hand

2 hours ago, MasterZelgadis said:

Maybe I should add I already houseruled that new talents can only be purchased after an extended rest and skills can only be trained, if they were recently used or also on an extended rest. I think I could just add the force trees to that rule, so that if you want to learn a new force tree, you have to meditate (or come up with some other justification, like a library, holocron, force vision, ...). Just want to avoid that the characters get xp at the end of a session, spend that on new talents, and use them in the next session, while ingame no time passed (session end at the end of a fight maybe).

I could just hand out xp when they take an extended rest, but nothing would keep them from saving them and spending them after the next fight..

Well, one thing to keep in mind about the spirit of the Force, is that it IS possible to learn it without any teaching. There is a section in one of the printed books (I don't remember which one, but I think it's the Force and Destiny corebook), that says it's possible to learn and grow in the Force, just by practice and repetition. I think it uses phrases like "contemplate the Force" or something, implying some level of introspection or meditation, but this is the important bit:

They do not make any mechanical rules about this. It's purely flavor text.

Per the rules as written, they can just spend XP and get new abilities. Now, if you've houseruled things differently, to require at least a little bit of effort in character, that's fine. Now I myself, when I GM'd this system, I implemented a similar thing. It wasn't very strict, just something along the lines of "if you want to level something up soon, tell me your character is working on that thing. I don't care if it's in the downtime, like your PC is reading off a datapad to boost his Knowledge skill before going to sleep every night. Or that your character is sitting there, staring at a coffee cup for hours a day, trying to move it with her mind. Just establish with me, that they are at least working towards it, and then you can spend the XP on it." This can also count for stuff done in game. You get a lot of Ranged Light rolls in because of several blaster fights in Mos Aisley? Fine, that's enough to justify a bump in Ranged Light. I don't really require them to do a ton of stuff to grow, because the idea is for the system to be rules light.

And, not to mention, there is canon precedent for the character figuring stuff out on their own. Empire Strikes Back, Luke attempts, and succeeds at developing Force Pull on his own, to draw his saber to him in that cave. Now, based on New Hope, Obi-Wan never taught him that. So the idea that they could spend the XP randomly, even without any justification for it, and then have the ability later due to a stressful situation, is totally ok given the lore.

So, if you haven't established yet, at your table, that they need to "show their work" when it comes to Force power expenditures, I would let them buy whatever powers they want with this batch of xp without any justification, but then, clearly establish that they will have to establish it going forward. But, also be sure to clarify exactly what level of justification is sufficient for you, so there is no confusion or ambiguity on the issue.

That's exactly what I meant. Not a big downtime or weeks studying, but at least a rest over night or something like that. But not that "last enemy down, got xp..*pling..new force power"

The cave on hoth is a nice idea, maybe Luke could have spent a destiny point here, to develop that new power on thy fly, because he really needed it to survive..

4 minutes ago, MasterZelgadis said:

That's exactly what I meant. Not a big downtime or weeks studying, but at least a rest over night or something like that. But not that "last enemy down, got xp..*pling..new force power"

The cave on hoth is a nice idea, maybe Luke could have spent a destiny point here, to develop that new power on thy fly, because he really needed it to survive..

True, there is another option that is actually a published option. It's called "Learning as you Go". It's a sidebar entry in....I think it's Defenders of the Peace? Someone more versed with the supplemental books will confirm/deny the source. Anyway, basically, it's an option to allow players to pick one thing, either a talent, a skill, or Force powers, that they currently don't have access to, and lets them use it in game, to represent the "I'm figuring this crap out as I go along with the adventure." kind of thing. The idea, is that they pick it, with the understanding that they are going to build towards it with XP. So, lets say, they want to use a specific talent in a career tree, but it's down on the 4th tier, and they are currently working on tier 2 stuff. That's ok, they can tell you they want to use that one ability, with the understanding that they will be spending XP to work towards actually unlocking it, AND, understand that they will have to suffer some penalties for using something "untrained".

Examples the game gives are things like:

• Suffer a strain cost, on top of any costs associated with use of the ability.
• Suffer increased or upgraded difficulty checks whenever using the ability, to reflect it being something they aren't skilled at doing.
• Suffer Conflict when using the ability.
• Have to make a separate check to even pull off the ability, if it doesn't have an associated roll to it.

Etc etc, you get the idea. This list isn't the entire thing, and I'm paraphrasing from what I remember, but it's a good baseline for what they are suggesting.

I would suggest using that going forward, as it's pretty nice, and I've yet to meet a player who had a problem getting access to something early, even with the penalty in place.

Sounds nice too, but I think a bit too complicated. Can't check the book, the german versions are waaaaay behind the stuff ffg published.

Only EotE Core, beginner, Suns of Fortune, Beyond the Rim, Game Master set, AoR Beginner and FaD beginner available..

2 minutes ago, MasterZelgadis said:

Sounds nice too, but I think a bit too complicated. Can't check the book, the german versions are waaaaay behind the stuff ffg published.

Only EotE Core, beginner, Suns of Fortune, Beyond the Rim, Game Master set, AoR Beginner and FaD beginner available..

What's complicated about it? Not criticizing, just genuinely confused what about the rule is complicated. It basically addresses your exact issue, in a way that isn't to overpowered. They tell you the ability, and they can't change it until they buy it. So, for example, you have a player that wants to spontaneously learn Force Move, because they, oh, need to pull a saber to them to escape being eaten by a monster. They can, but you can say "Ok, but you will have to roll a Discipline check EVERY time you use it, even in situations that don't normally require it....like right now." They still get to access the ability, and agree to buy it with their next batch of XP (or at least build towards it if it's a few tiers down), and they can try it.

Ah okay, misunderstood it a bit

Is it clear now? If not, by all means ask your questions and I will be happy to clarify. I personally love this optional rule, as it helps thematically to represent characters being able to do things they normally wouldn't be able to do. (A common theme in fantasy storytelling) And it lets players have a little bit of flexibility with their progression, so they don't feel like they shafted themselves by making a poor XP purchase decision. "Damnit! I KNEW I should've bought Move! Now I'm going to die!" ...kind of thing.

It's nothing I enforce as a GM, but as a player I do try and justify raising a skill or whatever in my own mind. Either it's something I worked towards in the game or a skill that was used - and then I can raise it/buy it.

That said, it's tough enough (and expensive enough) for a Jedi already, so I'd be willing to cut them some slack in matters like this. Let them buy force powers as freely as a non-jedi can buy two ranks in melee.

What we see in the movies is necessity is the mother of invention. So if your player says they want to learn the Move power, the following session you create a situation similar to Luke in the Wampa lair or Rey facing Kylo Ren, and they reach out desperately wanting to Move and object and they have their Force epiphany and it dawns on them...

40 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

What we see in the movies is necessity is the mother of invention. So if your player says they want to learn the Move power, the following session you create a situation similar to Luke in the Wampa lair or Rey facing Kylo Ren, and they reach out desperately wanting to Move and object and they have their Force epiphany and it dawns on them...

Yeah, to me, that's the essence of the "Learn as you Go" side rule. "Oh crap, I'm in a situation where I could REALLY use Move...but I didn't buy it!" "Hey GM, I'd like to make Move be my Learn as you Go ability." "Okie doke, roll your Force die to see if you get the pips you need, and also roll an Average Discipline check, because you're trying this in very stressfull situations, and you haven't taken any time to train for this time of ability." "I failed my Discipline roll!" "Ok, try again." "My player closes his eyes, concentrating, and clearing his mind.....Hey! I made the Discipline check!" "Grats, you yank your saber to you and are able to free yourself."

To me, that's just perfect storytelling. It's making sure that the mechanics of the system, don't get in the way of the story . Which to me personally, is paramount. I'd much rather have an option for my players to pull something new and creative out of their butts in a scene, than to just lock them into a specific set of options for each session. I'm all for flexibility and new approaches to the challenges, the more the better.

I don't mean to impugn anyone's storytelling ability, but I try to craft stories and session like an episode of The Clone Wars or Rebels . Aside from an occasional cliffhanger, the end of the session is the end of that "episode" and the PCs will have a certain amount of downtime before the next session, which we assume they spend training on the things they spend their XP on.

That's certainly not the only valid approach, and I don't mean to portray it as such, it's just the one that works best for me.