So I'm kinda surprised there is not a thread on this yet. It was mentioned in the FAQ thread, but here it is for everyone else.

Someone broke their NDA and leaking the reason for the delayed FAQ.

The two rules being playtested are:

1. No commanders on flotillas
2. Flotillas count toward your squadron points total

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsArmada/comments/62gu8l/updated_armada_tournament_rules_pdf/

Not sure if it's true. Hopefully FFG won't banish this thread as well. Who knows?

Anyway, if this is true, what is everyone's thoughts?

I rather enjoy lifeboats and I don't have an issue playing against them. Granted I've started playing fast ships so I can catch them so I can ram or ET ram (if you can't beat em, join em). I hope they don't make that change. Otherwise I'll just put them on Jaina's Light and an Arq, so it's basically the same thing except I get to shoot back.

The squad total is really freaking weird. I don't play max squads anymore, so I'm indifferent on this since I already have the points available to me. What it does do is prevent mass squads, high activation lists.

In before "reddit scum"

Worth noting there's no proof of any of it. Just hearsay. Also worth noting it was posted before April 1st originally

1 minute ago, WuFame said:

In before "reddit scum"

Worth noting there's no proof of any of it. Just hearsay. Also worth noting it was posted before April 1st originally

Hmph, hadn't thought about that. I've been playing Mass Effect all day so I forgot.

But it was 2 days ago so it's still a legit hoax.

For no particular reason, I'll pretend this news is real.

I would be cool with the "No commanders on Flotillas." Thematic, easy to grasp.

The "Flotillas count towards squad total" is, well, dumb. It does nothing to curb MSU fleets that flotillas are really abused for. It punishes bomber heavy squad screens for no reason. It - as reported in this thread - is too vague. Just the 18 for a transport counts? Or the cost of all upgrades on said flotilla.

38 minutes ago, WuFame said:

In before "reddit scum"

Worth noting there's no proof of any of it. Just hearsay. Also worth noting it was posted before April 1st originally

It was April 1st in Australia, however.

29 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

It was April 1st in Australia, however.

You should know better than anybody that Australia is a myth.

My Uncle who works at Nintendo...

You... you guys know this is a joke or a very poor troll, right?

It was on the outside edge of believable until the idea of counting flotillas against squadron points came up. That's just silly.

3 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

You... you guys know this is a joke or a very poor troll, right?

It was on the outside edge of believable until the idea of counting flotillas against squadron points came up. That's just silly.

Hey it's not on my part. Reddit is a black hole. Who knows what kind of things live in there. Sometimes weird things pop up like this.

I'd give it some credibility because there are quite a few people who would like these changes and it's entirely likely that FFG has heard those complaints. Not to mention the tournament data they collected, which does support that everyone uses flotillas. Maybe they made flotillas too cheap and are trying to fix it.

Who knows what's true anymore.

Don't know if this is an April Fools joke or not, but I've definitely heard complaints about these issues.

No opinion on the idea of lifeboat flotillas, I think they're fine. The tools to take them out easily exist on both sides. But it does tend to mean that one ship just flys away. The only thing is, that's going to happen regardless with the exception of BCC flotillas because of Relay. and ship activation advantage.

I am in full agreement on the idea of Flotillas going towards your squadron point total though, for a few reasons. First off, it goes towards rebalancing fleet design to make larger ships (like the upcoming Quasar Fire) useful for squadron activations again. Second, it makes moves to higher point levels (such as CC 500 point games) something other than a race to max out the squadron cap and then invest everything into Flotillas. Especially in the early rounds.

Just now, Undeadguy said:

Hey it's not on my part. Reddit is a black hole. Who knows what kind of things live in there. Sometimes weird things pop up like this.

I'd give it some credibility because there are quite a few people who would like these changes and it's entirely likely that FFG has heard those complaints. Not to mention the tournament data they collected, which does support that everyone uses flotillas. Maybe they made flotillas too cheap and are trying to fix it.

Who knows what's true anymore.

Mostly, because of something you just brought up:

If Flotillas are too good, then you'd want to nerf flotillas in some way, right?

... Not Nerf Squadrons...

You nerf the thing that's the problem. That's... Kind of what you do.

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

Hey it's not on my part. Reddit is a black hole. Who knows what kind of things live in there. Sometimes weird things pop up like this.

I'd give it some credibility because there are quite a few people who would like these changes and it's entirely likely that FFG has heard those complaints. Not to mention the tournament data they collected, which does support that everyone uses flotillas. Maybe they made flotillas too cheap and are trying to fix it.

Who knows what's true anymore.

I'm not saying you originated it, sorry if I gave that impression. I saw the link you posted to /r/starwarsArmada.

But no. It's not credible even a little bit. It's not even worth refuting, it's silly.

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Mostly, because of something you just brought up:

If Flotillas are too good, then you'd want to nerf flotillas in some way, right?

... Not Nerf Squadrons...

You nerf the thing that's the problem. That's... Kind of what you do.

The issue is, Flotillas have radically improved squadron activations to the point where there is very little that can compete with them for squadron activation purposes. If there isn't a penalty to the squadron game, it makes sense to run, for example, 3x Gozantis for the cost of 1 VSD. The Gozantis can activate twice the number of squadrons and give you three ship activations. Also, given the movement profile, it's possible that those 3 Gozantis would do more damage than a VSD even before squadrons were activated.

On the Rebel side, the activation cost becomes even more obscene.

Just now, thecactusman17 said:

The issue is, Flotillas have radically improved squadron activations to the point where there is very little that can compete with them for squadron activation purposes. If there isn't a penalty to the squadron game, it makes sense to run, for example, 3x Gozantis for the cost of 1 VSD. The Gozantis can activate twice the number of squadrons and give you three ship activations. Also, given the movement profile, it's possible that those 3 Gozantis would do more damage than a VSD even before squadrons were activated.

On the Rebel side, the activation cost becomes even more obscene.

Yet it casually ignores the issues of expanded activations for Ships. Because if you're not investing heavily in squadrons anyway , what penalty is there?

It limits the scope of the "problem" through that assumption. The problem isn't then flotillas , the problem is squadron activations .

And that isn't necessarily an issue with Flotillas itself - because if the Quasar - for example - is cheap, then it itself is immediate competition and requiring a nerf immediately.

Its a solution looking for a problem that we don't have.

Not to say we don't necessarily have a problem.

Just that this isn't it.

9 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Yet it casually ignores the issues of expanded activations for Ships. Because if you're not investing heavily in squadrons anyway , what penalty is there?

It limits the scope of the "problem" through that assumption. The problem isn't then flotillas , the problem is squadron activations .

And that isn't necessarily an issue with Flotillas itself - because if the Quasar - for example - is cheap, then it itself is immediate competition and requiring a nerf immediately.

Its a solution looking for a problem that we don't have.

Not to say we don't necessarily have a problem.

Just that this isn't it.

You are correct. It is those issues in conjunction that create a major cost-benefit imbalance. Since Flotillas are clearly ships, unless you move them to only activating during the squadron phase then you can't get rid of the one issue. However, in ship-heavy fleets, most players are only running 1-2 Flotillas for activation control, and a core reason for that is the ability to have a cheap ship that's difficult to kill especially at long range.

But the issues around squadron play still exist. Flotillas, for example, still have to be the method by which one activates a swarm of bombers or interceptor screen. So now, unless a ship is priced exceedingly low (in the area of 10 points/squadron) there is very little reason to take a single ship when you could take 2-3 flotillas.

By putting Flotillas in the squadron points pool, which I've advocated for previously, you reduce the number of squadrons so that players cannot run 3-4 flotillas and a maxed out squadron swarm. Players who want large squadron swarms now need to invest in dedicated carrier ships that can activate larger numbers of squadrons.

But at the moment, that's a choice - a concious, bonafide choice to make... To take the dedicated carrier (which often comes with other benefits, such as the ability to mass-activate, and to get bonuses such as Flight Controllers on each and every of those activations.)

I mean, even in my meta, we do see 2 flotillas in a force on average - but that's because of the flotillas support abilities + activations... Rarely are they the primary squadron activator. Because Flight Controller ISDs are still a great imperial way to push a fighter-killing ball about. MC80s are great with FC/FCT to push a large amount of bombers before throwing them all at once for massive strike potential.

that option alreayd exists. And it has benefits beyond merely being activation fodder.

As presented, its still a solution looking for a problem, and that problem has to be beaten into place to conform... Making them squadron points only shuts down the Squadron game.

Those people already ignoring the squadron game have no penalty . So again, the problem this is fixing is one inherently with Squadrons, not with flotillas themselves.

I still think we either need to admit the fact that the problem isn't Flotillas , its massed Squadrons ( if anything, and I still don't agree with that) - or we need to look for another solution.

I think there are two significant issues in the game: high activation fleets with a large bid, and massed squadrons.

Flotillas allow the option to run both at the same time . That's a problem that's developing rapidly, and is also a problem that is exacerbating other problems. It's exacerbating problem ships like Demolisher, exacerbating problem squadrons like Rhymer, and exacerbating problem tactics like lifeboats.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Hey it's not on my part. Reddit is a black hole. Who knows what kind of things live in there. Sometimes weird things pop up like this.

Best comment right here!

The biggest issue I have for removing commanders from flots is that it's a bigger blow to the Empire than it is the the Rebels. Rebels will just go back to Jaina's Light being the go-to commander lifeboat like it was in Wave 1 and 2. I do think the flotilla activation war has made the game stale, but I don't think counting flots as squads is a great way to deal with it. I'm biased though, as I love mass squadrons.

Errr.... April's fools?

By the way I don't see a problem with the current meta. The opponents bring only squadrons and flotillas? Good, because my MC30 flotilla hunter fleet will win the tournament as I can destroy flotillas with ease then outrun the fighters. People have to adapt not to whine for a change of rules.

4 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

But at the moment, that's a choice - a concious, bonafide choice to make... To take the dedicated carrier (which often comes with other benefits, such as the ability to mass-activate, and to get bonuses such as Flight Controllers on each and every of those activations.)

I mean, even in my meta, we do see 2 flotillas in a force on average - but that's because of the flotillas support abilities + activations... Rarely are they the primary squadron activator. Because Flight Controller ISDs are still a great imperial way to push a fighter-killing ball about. MC80s are great with FC/FCT to push a large amount of bombers before throwing them all at once for massive strike potential.

that option alreayd exists. And it has benefits beyond merely being activation fodder.

As presented, its still a solution looking for a problem, and that problem has to be beaten into place to conform... Making them squadron points only shuts down the Squadron game.

Those people already ignoring the squadron game have no penalty . So again, the problem this is fixing is one inherently with Squadrons, not with flotillas themselves.

I still think we either need to admit the fact that the problem isn't Flotillas , its massed Squadrons ( if anything, and I still don't agree with that) - or we need to look for another solution.

That's the problem. You can mass activate, but if you're out activated by flotillas, you're mass activation strike can easily be extinguished through activation delay.

This is just silly, we already know the only sensible change. (Which I dont support)

Game ends when one player has only squadrons and/or flotillas remaining.

Now you have to send a raider or cr90 away from battle too if you want to overload these tactics.

The no commanders on flotilla seems better towards thematics. A flagship generally is the central image of a fleet, a commander running away from battle in a flotilla simply seems stupid

46 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

This is just silly, we already know the only sensible change. (Which I dont support)

Game ends when one player has only squadrons and/or flotillas remaining.

Now you have to send a raider or cr90 away from battle too if you want to overload these tactics.

Nooooo please!

I won a match 9-2 loosing my entire fleet but a flotilla (and squadrons) and I didn't play lifeboat. I just gathered 300 victory points and killed almost his entire fleet too. My ships were chip and only 2/3 of my fleet. A had a lot of fun for it.

If this is true, these rule changes seem fine by me.