Sorry to bring this topic again, but the wording "perform a free barrel roll action" it's causing an big argument between my friend and I. I have read the new FAQ and also the forum topics about this card, but the question we have is not answer clearly (so we have of this argument and would like to play it right).

Can someone tell "clearly" which of these two scenarios is the right one:

Scenario 1: expert handling gives you a free barrel roll action. Because it is free, it does not cost you your action, so after that, you can do your real action (like focus, evade, target lock...)

Scenario 2: because of the "action header" on the card, in order to use expert handling you need to spend your action. You do whatever is on the card, then you cannot perform another action since your action is already spent.

Please, tell us which scenario is good (1 or 2). And if it is scenario 1, how come nobody used it on Darth Vader to actually perform 3 actions without the stress that "push the limit" would give you?

Many thanks for helping me.

Scenario 2 is the right answer. You spend your action to activate Expert Handling. That lets you perform a barrel roll. The barrel roll is "free", because you already spent your action to trigger EH.

Thanks Ubul.

3 hours ago, DanL2 said:

...

Can someone tell "clearly" which of these two scenarios is the right one:

Scenario 1: expert handling gives you a free barrel roll action. Because it is free, it does not cost you your action, so after that, you can do your real action (like focus, evade, target lock...)

Scenario 2: because of the "action header" on the card, in order to use expert handling you need to spend your action. You do whatever is on the card, then you cannot perform another action since your action is already spent.

Please, tell us which scenario is good (1 or 2). And if it is scenario 1, how come nobody used it on Darth Vader to actually perform 3 actions without the stress that "push the limit" would give you?

BOTH OF THEM! Ok, not quite as the second sentence in Scenario 1 is misleading while the first sentence is actually right.

The important thing for Scenario 1 is that Expert Handling ONLY give you a free roll IF YOU USE AN ACTION TO ACTIVATE IT.
The important thing for Scenario 2 is that after you use an action to activate Expert Handling performing the barrel roll also requires an Action; here it just happens that EH is giving you that action for free.

If someone put EH on Vader then Vader could get to perform 3 actions. One Action would be used to activate Expert Handling. A FREE Action (gained from EH) would be used to perform a Barrel Roll Action. Vader's ability would then give him a third action which COULD NOT BE another Barrel Roll as he had already used that action as the free action gained from EH.

The reason it tells you to do a "Free Barrelroll" is because its basically a souped up action. Its a barrelroll with the added bonus of dumping targetlocks, and rather than tell you how to move the ship it just says "Do a barrelroll" in the action.

There is another relevant rule here. The text, "free barrel roll action," precludes performing other barrel roll actions in the same round. Example: the ship equipped with Expert Handling could not use Push the Limit to do another Barrel Roll from its Action Bar.

6 hours ago, DanL2 said:

Please, tell us which scenario is good (1 or 2). And if it is scenario 1, how come nobody used it on Darth Vader to actually perform 3 actions without the stress that "push the limit" would give you?

Even if Expert Handling did not use an Action, there are better ways to build Darth Vader. He can make better use of his two actions with other cards to modify his dice. Here are my favorite Vader builds:

Darth Vader (34) - TIE Advanced
Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x1 (0), Engine Upgrade (4), Accuracy Corrector (3)

Darth Vader (36) - TIE Advanced
Lone Wolf (2), TIE/x1 (0), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)

Hilariously this is one errata I wish they would roll back. It's not like double barrel rolls would destroy the meta at this point in the game. Though it would be funny on Dash with experimental interface. Dash with blink drive.

1 hour ago, ID X T said:

Dash with blink drive.

Dark Matter Dash. One more reason Star Wars needs a live action TV show.

I read the FAQ on this and I am more confused now than ever. The description in the FAQ reads:

"A ship can only perform the same action once per round. A ship equipped with Expert Handling cannot perform a barrel roll and use the Expert Handling action in the same round. If a ship attempts to perform an Expert Handling action, but cannot perform a barrel roll, the ship may perform a different action instead."

Since this description from FFG describes how you cannot perform 2 barrel roll actions in the same round it would stand to reason that you CAN perform another action, like a target lock, and the free barrel roll afforded to you through expert handling? Yes?

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/7c/28/7c285c0c-ee4a-40c6-97e4-692c5c49a16b/x-wing_faq_v433.pdf

45 minutes ago, Pooleman said:

I read the FAQ on this and I am more confused now than ever. The description in the FAQ reads:

"A ship can only perform the same action once per round. A ship equipped with Expert Handling cannot perform a barrel roll and use the Expert Handling action in the same round. If a ship attempts to perform an Expert Handling action, but cannot perform a barrel roll, the ship may perform a different action instead."

Since this description from FFG describes how you cannot perform 2 barrel roll actions in the same round it would stand to reason that you CAN perform another action, like a target lock, and the free barrel roll afforded to you through expert handling? Yes?

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/7c/28/7c285c0c-ee4a-40c6-97e4-692c5c49a16b/x-wing_faq_v433.pdf

What the FAQ says is that if a ship (Lets say Darth Vader) performs a barrel roll as its first action, it cannot use the Expert Handling action as a second action.

The confusion a lot of people have is that they ignore on Expert Handling where it says 'Action:'. You are using your normal action step to trigger the free barrel roll, its not just the card granting you a free barrel roll.

32 minutes ago, Innese said:

What the FAQ says is that if a ship (Lets say Darth Vader) performs a barrel roll as its first action, it cannot use the Expert Handling action as a second action.

The confusion a lot of people have is that they ignore on Expert Handling where it says 'Action:'. You are using your normal action step to trigger the free barrel roll, its not just the card granting you a free barrel roll.

That's very disappointing.

1 hour ago, Pooleman said:

I read the FAQ on this and I am more confused now than ever. The description in the FAQ reads:

"A ship can only perform the same action once per round. A ship equipped with Expert Handling cannot perform a barrel roll and use the Expert Handling action in the same round. If a ship attempts to perform an Expert Handling action, but cannot perform a barrel roll, the ship may perform a different action instead."

Since this description from FFG describes how you cannot perform 2 barrel roll actions in the same round it would stand to reason that you CAN perform another action, like a target lock, and the free barrel roll afforded to you through expert handling? Yes?

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/7c/28/7c285c0c-ee4a-40c6-97e4-692c5c49a16b/x-wing_faq_v433.pdf

So I'm pretty sure the FAQ entry there is addressing two different situations which are not differentiated well in the writing, that may be part of the confusion.

First is where you can't do the same action twice in a round period. So you can't BR with your natural ability and then BR using expert handling or vice versa because you are limited to one BR per round. So if you do a BR first you are then prohibited from even attempting to trigger EH.

The second line I'm pretty sure is meant to cover a different situation. If you trigger EH and then say declare BR right but are unable to fit then you can back up and declare a completely different action. It's to make it clear that if you are unable to do the BR then it doesn't cause EH to just fizzle and waste your action you can choose a new action instead.

4 hours ago, sharrrp said:

...

The second line I'm pretty sure is meant to cover a different situation. If you trigger EH and then say declare BR right but are unable to fit then you can back up and declare a completely different action. It's to make it clear that if you are unable to do the BR then it doesn't cause EH to just fizzle and waste your action you can choose a new action instead.

Correct. Also, it is conceivable someone would attempt to do the barrel roll but be blocked by other ships or obstacles and the player would say, "Well I can't complete the barrel roll so I will be stuck just discarding your target lock on me." This helps make it clear that completing the barrel roll is necessary for shaking the lock.

14 hours ago, pickirk01 said:

Correct. Also, it is conceivable someone would attempt to do the barrel roll but be blocked by other ships or obstacles and the player would say, "Well I can't complete the barrel roll so I will be stuck just discarding your target lock on me." This helps make it clear that completing the barrel roll is necessary for shaking the lock.

Is completing the BR necessary for losing the TL? It seems it's a seperate part of the Expert Handling action.

It's like when some folks thought the Ghost had to fire its primary out the rear arc to get the extra turret shot because of the less than clear write up.

16 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Is completing the BR necessary for losing the TL? It seems it's a seperate part of the Expert Handling action.

It's like when some folks thought the Ghost had to fire its primary out the rear arc to get the extra turret shot because of the less than clear write up.

The card Says,

"Action: Perform a free Barrel Roll Action. If you do not have the [Barrel Roll] action icon, receive 1 stress token.

You may then remove 1 enemy target lock from your ship."

The part that says "You may then..." is the part that makes it seem as if it is an implied if/then statement. If you do the first part then you may do the second part. I could be wrong, but that's that way I always read it.

1 minute ago, pickirk01 said:

The card Says,

"Action: Perform a free Barrel Roll Action. If you do not have the [Barrel Roll] action icon, receive 1 stress token.

You may then remove 1 enemy target lock from your ship."

The part that says "You may then..." is the part that makes it seem as if it is an implied if/then statement. If you do the first part then you may do the second part. I could be wrong, but that's that way I always read it.

The If is actually whether you have BR on your action bar, and suffering the stress. By your logic that means you only lose the TL if you don't have BR and have to receive the stress.

Just now, GrimmyV said:

The If is actually whether you have BR on your action bar, and suffering the stress. By your logic that means you only lose the TL if you don't have BR and have to receive the stress.

LOL. Wow, I'm only half done with my coffee this morning. I completely missed the part where the word "If" is actually in the first part of the card and its the second part of the first part. (Did that make sense?)

I still believe the intention is as I interpreted it, but we all know that as written and as intended are completely different things. On the other hand, this card has similar wording to the Bossk crew card. They both have a two part first section followed by a then sentence. I guess for me, the difference is on Bossk, it is written as one paragraph, whereas EH has a clear break before the last sentence.

The bottom line is I'm more confused than ever.

41 minutes ago, pickirk01 said:

The bottom line is I'm more confused than ever.

Amen! The deeper you dig into the cards that you thought you knew, the more confusion abounds. Down the rabbit hole AND through the looking glass. And the FAQ seems more and more arbitrary and subjective with each release.