While the post nerf meta might be incomplete, or a small sample or etc.,it can tell tell us things still. For example,the sharp plummet of Lambda shuttle (which can be reasonably equated with the sharp plummet of OGP Palp) strongly himts that the majority of the top players at the last 3 system opens felt that the Palp nerf no longer kept Palp as a competitive card.

Now, while only time will tell if thus is true or not, the data seems to say most top players don't think so atm.

So what is this then? A ship popularity list based on tournaments in the last month?

Cool.

4 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

So what is this then? A ship popularity list based on tournaments in the last month?

Cool.

No.

Thanks for doing this SotL, really interesting stuff

Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

No.

Really? Because that's what it looks like!

This is actually quite telling. Unlike most gaming communities, X-Wing has a higher level of intelligence, rational, logic, demeanor and maturity, I believe...me being one of the weaker links. That being said, I believe the most recent squads are not uneducated off-the-cuff reactions to the Neta or FAQ, but thoughtfull designs.

I'm telling you guys, there is wisdom here if you look for it.

5 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Statistics 101: Make the numbers say what you want them to say.

qft

51 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

While the post nerf meta might be incomplete, or a small sample or etc.,it can tell tell us things still. For example,the sharp plummet of Lambda shuttle (which can be reasonably equated with the sharp plummet of OGP Palp) strongly himts that the majority of the top players at the last 3 system opens felt that the Palp nerf no longer kept Palp as a competitive card.

Now, while only time will tell if thus is true or not, the data seems to say most top players don't think so atm.

I find the notion of small sample interesting, too, though it may be soon, these are some really big tournaments. The Stele Open is next weekend and it will be really interesting to see if we see an imperial bounce back.

I'm not surprised by the migration away from the Lambda and Defender, but it is disappointing, and a bit telling, that there is very little in the tank to replace it quickly like the other factions had.

As I've been beating the drum about elsewhere, I think that's simply a mathematical function of the nature of a faction that has half the unique cards and three fewer slots to play around with.

8 hours ago, Voitek said:

Same issue as usually always with the List Juggler data:

The entire analyse is based on TOP RESULTS DATA. Top8/16 lists in every tournament is the only what goes into consideration and populates the algorithm.

What about mediocre and low-performing results?

Lets take a look at Bwing. position 27th of 40. Mediocre to Low. Yet Blair managed to get to the final game with TWO of them! On the same tournament, we probably had 5+ defenders and equal number of jumpamsters in the finals. But there was probably about 50 defenders in the tournament, and 20-30 jumpmasters. Which ship is best among those 3 mentioned? Well clearly not Bwing, according to the data! And it probably should be, if 2 of maybe 10 Bwings being in use in the entire tournament made it to top2!

This is the most insane logic I've seen all week.

3 hours ago, AlexW said:

I find the notion of small sample interesting, too, though it may be soon, these are some really big tournaments. The Stele Open is next weekend and it will be really interesting to see if we see an imperial bounce back.

I'm not surprised by the migration away from the Lambda and Defender, but it is disappointing, and a bit telling, that there is very little in the tank to replace it quickly like the other factions had.

As I've been beating the drum about elsewhere, I think that's simply a mathematical function of the nature of a faction that has half the unique cards and three fewer slots to play around with.

There were three big tournaments for sure. The problem is they are not complete. 11(3 at the time this chart was made and thanks to whoever updated this!) lists from hoth, 50% from naboo and Tatooine. So the data is just very incomplete. In addition to being only 2 weekends of tournaments. All this really says is "here are about 30% of people's gut reaction to the FAQ".

Anyone else bothered by the fact that the two most successful TIE fighter pilots according to Metawing are Captain Rex and Ahsoka? Somehow the Rebels have more success fielding the most iconic Imperial ship in the game than Imperials do.

Rebel TIE and Imperial TIEs fly completely differently though. The uses you have with them are different. You rarely slip a single TIE into an imperial list which you couldn't just do with some other pocket ace.

That said, I've heard rumblings (Including from the unsinkable Dallas Parker) that some people might be willing to TIE Swarm again now that x7 can be blocked, so that number might tick back up.

11 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

If nothing else comes out of this than that more people use Meta-Wing then the post was worthwhile!

I'll happily use whatever 'sway' I have to that end.

You know what? Have opinions, have sway, share, it's what makes all this work.

And troll brigade, seriously?! Dang. What weird world do you live in where a pool of data and a well intending blog can stir up such visceral bile?

What's the worst case scenario here? Something gets nerfed too hard? Something gets over corrected? Someone tries a list that incorrect metrics told them would work?

Pretty sure all that already was, will, and is happening

so chill

3 hours ago, Timathius said:

There were three big tournaments for sure. The problem is they are not complete. 11(3 at the time this chart was made and thanks to whoever updated this!) lists from hoth, 50% from naboo and Tatooine. So the data is just very incomplete. In addition to being only 2 weekends of tournaments. All this really says is "here are about 30% of people's gut reaction to the FAQ".

Well, while I don't be disagree on the whole, understand your point, and wouldn't mind more lists, lists don't just win or lose games on their own. There's no barrier for entry into Xwing tourneys. Players at the bottom probably aren't losing because of their lists. I assume you'd agree that the top lists are more relevant?

A few more tournaments have gone in and it looks like the data has been cleaned up a bit regarding the A-Wings, who have now jumped up from the bottom to sit in the middle with the other agile fighters.

I think you can summarise the top ships as "we carry Attani or appear in squads with TLT". That basically explains the top 8 ships in the current ranking then the next few are rugged jousters trying to compete with that. That there's some pretty clear stratification of ship types suggests to me that there's some valid learnings to be made.

• Tier 1 - Attani & TLT
• Tier 2 - Tough Jousters (/sf, Defender, Arc, YV)
• Tier 3 - Swarms/Cheap Ships (TIE, A-Wing, Z-95, /fo)
• Tier 4 - Everything Else

Results are from relatively few tournaments in a metagame people are still learning. Outlier performances and successful examples/exceptions exist for many of the ships down towards the bottoms. Play what you like and fly casual.

The X-wing is in 5th place OMG We need to save it!

But on a more serious note, Some things I find odd about the rankings. The Attack Shuttle and the Ghost are not in the same place. Actually the attack shuttle is ahead. So that means there are more list that use only the attack shuttle than the ghost? Also I see more A-wings now with Snap shot and Juke than I have seen during the Wave 7-10 meta. So how does the Punisher when I only seen it in Wave 7 then promptly fall off the edge of the table higher than the A-wing?

4 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

The X-wing is in 5th place OMG We need to save it!

But on a more serious note, Some things I find odd about the rankings. The Attack Shuttle and the Ghost are not in the same place. Actually the attack shuttle is ahead. So that means there are more list that use only the attack shuttle than the ghost? Also I see more A-wings now with Snap shot and Juke than I have seen during the Wave 7-10 meta. So how does the Punisher when I only seen it in Wave 7 then promptly fall off the edge of the table higher than the A-wing?

Well the updated rankings (above your post) put the X-Wing in 3rd place. That's really that Biggs is in 3rd place, though - he's >80% of all X-Wings listed.

These ranking lists are not popularity of ships but how successful they've been when people play them, so the Attack Shuttle above the Ghost makes sense. The Ghost's score is an average of games played with/without the Shuttle and you can imply that it's doing better when the Shuttle is there, but that games without the shuttle are dragging its average down a bit.

8 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

The X-wing is in 5th place OMG We need to save it!

But on a more serious note, Some things I find odd about the rankings. The Attack Shuttle and the Ghost are not in the same place. Actually the attack shuttle is ahead. So that means there are more list that use only the attack shuttle than the ghost? Also I see more A-wings now with Snap shot and Juke than I have seen during the Wave 7-10 meta. So how does the Punisher when I only seen it in Wave 7 then promptly fall off the edge of the table higher than the A-wing?

I think it's also perhaps worth noting that the Attack Shuttle is used alone a small amount, but when it's used alone it's more successful than the Ghost is alone, especially now that Ghost/Dash isn't really a thing any more.

The top two ships being Scouts and K Wings really makes me dislike this meta I'm genuinely worried I won't enjoy Euros at all.

Fortunately I can always drop and have fun at the con instead.

I think you can use these rankings a lot to try and crack the meta nut. There's a lot of similarities among the ships in the top lists which you can tech to exploit. In general you can say that (Fenn Rau aside) they're all relatively low PS, relatively low agility, relatively high hull, relatively low offensive output. Work out what beats that type of ship and you're all set!

Working out what beats it isn't the issue as much as enjoying the matchups when I have done. K Wings are just a dire play experience for me. I can't stand them.

I have a good idea what I'll be using at Euros already, unless anything major changes between now and then.

"You know what's fun? Winning is fun."
- Shawn "The Hammer" Regnier, Pro Tour LA Champion 1996

Interesting topic.

Admittedly I can't follow exactly how this listing got created, but being anything but a math-wizz I probably wouldn't understaand it if I could ;-)

I see some replies where there is disagreement a fan-favorite is listed lower down the rankings than prefered or experienced. Same here, but I hazard the guess our local 'meta' (if it can be named as such) vastly differs from those at tournaments.

Many stopped buying in large numbers as waves followed each other up in rapid succession. Also, we have a nasty 'if you don't know what it is, shoot it first' style of play. Leaving some ships with dreadful introductions in our group. (Look! this is a K-Wing! *boom* )

Defenders and K-Wings among them, though the former are trying again ; -)

It also resulted in Blue squadron B-Wings with HLC dominating Epic-battles, 'cuz we know this heavy is goood

2 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I think you can summarise the top ships as "we carry Attani or appear in squads with TLT". That basically explains the top 8 ships in the current ranking then the next few are rugged jousters trying to compete with that. That there's some pretty clear stratification of ship types suggests to me that there's some valid learnings to be made.

• Tier 1 - Attani & TLT
• Tier 2 - Tough Jousters (/sf, Defender, Arc, YV)
• Tier 3 - Swarms/Cheap Ships (TIE, A-Wing, Z-95, /fo)
• Tier 4 - Everything Else

As I said in another thread, while your "Attanni carriers and TLT users" definition is technically right, I think it's too vague to describe the current top dogs archetypes.

Tier 1 right now seems to be: 3 Jumps (which, while obviously are Attanni users, I find hard to just label as that. Yeah action economy is what makes them playable, but ordnance is what makes ahead of others non-ordnance Attannis combinations), 2 Jumps&Fenn (they are more rightly called "Attanni users", but still, it's ordnance with attanni that makes them ahead of the pack).

Then, still at tier 1, we have "squads with TLT": Ghost/Biggs and 50 shades of Miranda and stressbot. Yeah, the lowest common denominator is the TLT, but all of them got their success to the stack of other stuff to which the TLT is just the cherry at the top.

Ghost uses high red dice barrage, coupled with inefficient targeting. Miranda and friends stress control and bombs.

Thus I stand to my point: Calling those list "Attanni&TLT", while right, is misleading.

And I entirely disagree. Remove TLT from Miranda/Ghost/Y-Wing and they're not top ships. And the 'triple scouts aren't Attani' is entirely wrong (IMHO) as it's Attani/Agromech that drives the list and gives it fully modified attack (primary and ordnance) as well tactical flexibility and resilience. Take Attani off that list and it's not top tier.

1 minute ago, Stay On The Leader said:

And I entirely disagree. Remove TLT from Miranda/Ghost/Y-Wing and they're not top ships. And the 'triple scouts aren't Attani' is entirely wrong (IMHO) as it's Attani/Agromech that drives the list and gives it fully modified attack (primary and ordnance) as well tactical flexibility and resilience. Take Attani off that list and it's not top tier.

For the TLT I think that is more a comment on the weakness of other turrets in order for them to be integral to the list. If another turret was viable the list could still stand.

With Attanni it sometimes feels like the actual ships chosen are of less consequence than the EPT itself.