Depends, if you make it Range 1 it probably accomplishes quite a lot, and would actually reward creative flying if you could 'chain' your Range 1 bubbles across the table.

My suggestion was to add the word 'unstressed' between 'other' and 'friendly' which doesn't immediately do much to change the way the upgrade functions but makes stress more of a weakness. I believe Attani Mindlink was intended to be balanced with stress as the weakness (much like Zuckuss) when in fact Mindlink lists are more resilient to stress, not less resilient.

Range 1 would be interesting. 1-2 would probably be balanced, and 1-3 would be fine, but none of that makes much difference to Jumps which IME usually slow roll around close together anyway. I've rarely seen a torpscout list which flew its ships far apart unless it was forced to by good turn 0 play.

I disagree about MIndlink's intent. I think it was meant to encourage a different style of flying - using swarms that fly far apart from each other, encouraging flanking and k turning more than PTL whilst still giving similar benefits, and encouraging large numbers of smaller elite ships to hit the field. Enough so that my proposed change to it before it started being used on Torpscouts was to limit it to one focus token and one stress token, because a large part of peoples' concern with it seemed to be the way it enabled token stacking on Fenn/Assaj. I wanted to enhance the stress protection aspect and limit the focus stacking aspect. Its use on Torpscouts changed my mind on that though.

My evidence? I've run a list like that for several months and it's really interesting and really challenging and *really* fun when it goes right. I'm really looking forward to bringing it back to life with Inaldra and Genesis Red. Making Mindlink only work on unstressed ships kills that archetype entirely because you could never pass an action to the K turning ship, and you could only get your focus action with the last ship to move which would make it almost impossible to run.

But of course, without being the designers, it's impossible to know for sure what they intended. I'm more than prepared to accept that they might have intended the stress-passing as a penalty.

I would be very interested to see what the Jumpmaster would be doing in a non-mindlink world right now.

I don't know how there can be much question that Mindlink is an issue. If you have 3+ scum ships in your list, and they can't take mindlink, you are handicapping yourself. It's as simple as that.

2 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

I would be very interested to see what the Jumpmaster would be doing in a non-mindlink world right now.

I don't know how there can be much question that Mindlink is an issue. If you have 3+ scum ships in your list, and they can't take mindlink, you are handicapping yourself. It's as simple as that.

Dengar would still be wrecking face in alphas

bump masters would still be there

And torp boats would still be around as well. ESPECIALLY if the new Intensity EPT is what everyone thinks it is.

100% agree that Atanni is an issue, I just think the JM5K is more of one.

My Attanni Mindlink nerf would be limiting it to 2 copies per list. Aside from being undercosted and having no range restriction, one of the strongest aspects of Attanni Mindlink is how well it scales. With more ships in the mindlink, you have more ships that are freed up from needing to use focus as their action. Take Paratanni for example: Manaroo focusing frees up Asajj to Evade/TL/rotate arc and Fenn Rau to TL/boost/roll. The power of Parattanni drops once you manage to remove one of the ships (usually Manaroo). With just two ships, only one of them is operating at full power and the other one is stuck being the focus generator. With a limit 2 restriction, it's still an upgrade worth using but you can't get two powerhouse ships being fed by a lean focus generator. You would need to drop down to either one powerhouse and one support or two mutually supporting ships operating at lower efficiency.

Just now, Timathius said:

Dengar would still be wrecking face in alphas

bump masters would still be there

And torp boats would still be around as well. ESPECIALLY if the new Intensity EPT is what everyone thinks it is.

? Have I missed something? What do people think Intensity is and what proof do they have of it?

Dengar I could foresee becoming an issue, but at least he takes up half your list and isn't spammable.

Do people really have much issue with bumpmasters? I think they are good, sure, but they aren't erasing things off the board turn one. Their support is (which usually includes a Mindlink boat or 2).

If a "nerf" is done correctly, it shouldn't totally invalidate a ship altogether. If Scouts still perform well as blockers and Dengar makes appearances where he is now, then perhaps they are fixed.

Valid points though either way. It's totally possible that if scouts aren't dealt with directly, they will continue to abuse the hottest elite talent of the wave.

2 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I think that goes without saying, but then people keep asking me to say it... :-/

I do think it's directionally accurate and supports a plausible narrative, though.

From my knowledge, a measure of directional accuracy requires a forecast model in order to compare observed data to, so I'm not sure you can claim that this data has such a trend without said model.

40 minutes ago, Timathius said:

So first, I want to applaud you for quantifying your data better this time. That is all most of us were asking for just to avoid people jumping to conclusions and fomenting toxic viewpoint of the game.

This, along with the first line in the previous quote, are the keys to why statistical rigour is necessary. I would guess that a fair few of the commenters in this thread employ statistics professionally, I certainly do; it requires only a little knowledge in order to manipulate data to follow whatever narrative you wish, be it by under-reporting specifics about how the data has been processed, or misinterpreting what has been calculated. There are untold examples of media outlets doing this, and thus influencing the opinions of their reader/viewer-ship to be woefully misinformed.

I personally have no agenda when it comes to analysing the meta; I'll fly the ships I want to fly because I like them, not because their presence in a squad correlates well or not with tournament ranking.

I'll finishing by saying that I am not accusing the OP of wanting to manipulate opinions, just wishing to emphasise why such behaviour is a sticking point with a data scientist.

I think you're holding a simple table about plastic ships up to a level of interrogation that is not warranted.

All this talk about statistics and all I did was Copy/Paste!

Keep Calm and play with our beloved minis

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Each nerf would probably bring them more and more into the realms of balance, but... at what cost? R4 Agromech just went back to obscurity immediately, because other than JM5ks, the only other Scum ship with Agromech is the Y Wing and they ALL want Unhinged. Deadeye went from playable, briefly, to pointless even though a fairly-priced elite generic that can use it popped up shortly before the nerf. I can't think of a nerf to Mindlink that wouldn't drop it back into useless obscurity if you made it bad enough that the Scouts wouldn't want it, except possibly making it small ship only which would be weird as heck given that it's supposed to originate from Manaroo and her species. But it being small ship only would probably be OK, and would keep it usable on interesting small ship lists.

But all of this is treating the symptoms without curing the disease.

1 hour ago, costi said:

Attani is not a problem, the Jumpmaster is. How many cards need to be nerfed for people to notice that?

1 hour ago, BlodVargarna said:

Time to dump the dump master.

42 minutes ago, Timathius said:

Dengar would still be wrecking face in alphas

bump masters would still be there

And torp boats would still be around as well. ESPECIALLY if the new Intensity EPT is what everyone thinks it is.

100% agree that Atanni is an issue, I just think the JM5K is more of one.

36 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

Valid points though either way. It's totally possible that if scouts aren't dealt with directly, they will continue to abuse the hottest elite talent of the wave.

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

This.

Well penned.

They should of left the other stuff alone, it's quite sad they missed the mark so heavily. The real problem with Scum wasn't the things FFG nerfed, the minor symptoms....everybody knows the d*** toilet seat is the disease.

Seriously, how is it that things like this get written, but when I mention ban I get my a$$ handed to me?

2 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I think you're holding a simple table about plastic ships up to a level of interrogation that is not warranted.

All this talk about statistics and all I did was Copy/Paste!

and, for what it's worth, some of us greatly appreciate it - but hey, it's the internet, people love to take a stand about things that don't matter and love to attack things for the sake of feeling superior.

thanks again for the casual data, very interesting stuff!

3 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Serious, how is it that things like this get written, but when I mention ban I get my a$$ handed to me?

Because banning them isn't the answer either.

Fixing them is. Kiling the EPT and/or making them unique and/or making both them and Manaroo cost more.

Ideally also making the dial worse, but that's a tough change to enact without supplying new dials to everyone who bought one.

2 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I think you're holding a simple table about plastic ships up to a level of interrogation that is not warranted.

All this talk about statistics and all I did was Copy/Paste!

Yea but that is a massive problem in society at large. Copy and pasting things with very little to no reference of what the data behind it is, and proclaiming it as fact. Not just here, so sorry if you feel attacked.

Also, so guess who likes playing statistical dice games? People who like statistics. so you may get a bit more flak here just due to the community behind it

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Each nerf would probably bring them more and more into the realms of balance, but... at what cost? R4 Agromech just went back to obscurity immediately, because other than JM5ks, the only other Scum ship with Agromech is the Y Wing and they ALL want Unhinged. Deadeye went from playable, briefly, to pointless even though a fairly-priced elite generic that can use it popped up shortly before the nerf. I can't think of a nerf to Mindlink that wouldn't drop it back into useless obscurity if you made it bad enough that the Scouts wouldn't want it, except possibly making it small ship only which would be weird as heck given that it's supposed to originate from Manaroo and her species. But it being small ship only would probably be OK, and would keep it usable on interesting small ship lists.

But all of this is treating the symptoms without curing the disease.

1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

This.

Well penned.

They should of left the other stuff alone, it's quite sad they missed the mark so heavily. The real problem with Scum wasn't the things FFG nerfed, the minor symptoms....everybody knows the d*** toilet seat is the disease.

4 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Seriously, how is it that things like this get written, but when I mention ban I get my a$$ handed to me?

Because Darth, they know you have the real power on the forum. Nerf Herder's like me are just window dressings in the grand scheme of things.

35 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

? Have I missed something? What do people think Intensity is and what proof do they have of it?

Yea that's my B. It's small ship only! But the current assumption is that it assigns a focus and/or maybe an evade then flip.

14 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Seriously, how is it that things like this get written, but when I mention ban I get my a$$ handed to me?

Perhaps these people are not the same who lit a dumpster fire in your thread?

And also, he does have like... data...

11 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Ideally also making the dial worse, but that's a tough change to enact without supplying new dials to everyone who bought one.

And if they do that, they can give the HWK the dial it's suppose to have, not what it has now.

28 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Because banning them isn't the answer either.

Fixing them is. Kiling the EPT and/or making them unique and/or making both them and Manaroo cost more.

Ideally also making the dial worse, but that's a tough change to enact without supplying new dials to everyone who bought one.

23 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Seriously, how is it that things like this get written, but when I mention ban I get my a$$ handed to me?

Because no one is debating that there is something off about the Jumpmasters. It's the method of dealing with it that was objectionable.

14 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

Perhaps these people are not the same who lit a dumpster fire in your thread?

And also, he does have like... data...

Data? I don' need no stinkin' data!

This thread has the most nit-picky arguing I've ever seen. It seems like a few of you just like attacking each other for the sake of... being bored at work?

Are JM5Ks too good? Yes.

Is mindlink too good? Yes.

Are TLTs too good? Yes.

Is the presented data useful? Yes.

I think we can move along.

35 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

And if they do that, they can give the HWK the dial it's suppose to have, not what it has now.

28 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Because no one is debating that there is something off about the Jumpmasters. It's the method of dealing with it that was objectionable.

X-Wing 2.0.

14 minutes ago, Criwi Romed said:

This thread has the most nit-picky arguing I've ever seen. It seems like a few of you just like attacking each other for the sake of... being bored at work?

Are JM5Ks too good? Yes.

Is mindlink too good? Yes.

Are TLTs too good? Yes.

Is the presented data useful? Yes.

I think we can move along.

You're forgetting some.

Are PWTs too good? Yes.

Is PTL too good? Yes.

Are X-Wings too good? Bring on the NERF Bat!

(Between jobs for the week and it's raining outside. Very bored)

3 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

X-Wing 2.0.

Still not a big enough problem for that.

19 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Still not a big enough problem for that.

8 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Probably. But not yet. At least in my opinion.